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  1. #21
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    He always struck me as "strong but dull", if that makes sense. Spectacular in his physical powers, but basic in mental capacity. I suppose I've only seen the work where his character is more focused around the rippling muscles and stronk.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm not convinced Bruce is very money smart TBH. I mean, obviously he inherited a ridiculous amount that most people wouldn't be able to spend in a lifetime, and sure, he's at least smart enough in how to invest it, but I've never read a story that painted him as someone that has been able to considerably increase his family's fortune the way a Lex Luthor would, and if he did, I'm sure he did so by surrounding himself with the right people who do that, since his focus is entirely on breaking kneecaps all night and playing the billionaire but charitable playboy during the day. We also know Lucius Fox is responsible for all the tech he has.
    Given Bruce's other occupation, he had to be money smart just to stay afloat, and don't the stories have Wayne enterprise increasing, althoguh the margin isn't substantial - given all he is "occupied" with, it seems quite the feat - at least in that context.

    Yes, Clark would be tech smarter - it is never showcased though, but it's there if you look closely, and try to think about what a lot of the stuff he deals with actually mean.

    The CW's Supergirl doesn't paint her as Clarke level of smart, but she also must be pretty smart to do what she does. The CW Kara is very naive, at least emotionally, her vulnerabilities are shown in that scope, whiles Clarke has the duality of his morality being both his most exploitable weakness and greatest strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Silver Age Superman was a Supergenius.



    Silver age Superman had any power the writers wanted him to have.

    More recently, he can use Superspeed to learn everything there is to know about anything in a matter of seconds. How long he can actually retain that knowledge is a different story.
    He has perfect memory, so presumably he retains all the knowledge.

    But all Supermen have superspeed and by deduction, like the Flash, are capable of learning things in a matter of seconds.

    Silver age Superman is probably the only one that showcased his genius then.

    The question is how much knowledge Clark actually knows then. In that comic excerpt he has to learn knowledge an ambitious person like Lex would have done.

    But Clarke spent his education trying to look ordinary, disguising his power and knowledge. Presumably, although he could have if he really wanted to learn all that extra stuff would have, but he didn't because of how he lived his life.

    It would explain why he would need to then learn the knowledge for that encounter at that point. Question is would not the Fortress of knowledge shown him all that? would he not be able to deduce the information his x-ray vision and existing knowledge of physics and anatomy? Unless he didn't have the knowledge or it was faster to read it up.

    obviously going to the library is a narrative tool to showcase his genius power. But saying that, it's exactly the sort of thing I would have expected to have seen more instances of in most Superman narratives. His powers should allow him to be able to do those things.

    We are rarely shown though, that comic being the exception.

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    I usually attribute what any superman can do to all Superman iterations, because it is the same character. The narratives depend on us relating to him on previous knowledge, even though every new iteration attempts to introduce him for the first time to the current generation.

    Superman has never really received any new powers in all his iterations (that I know of), it's just that each iteration show cases them in different scenarios to do different things as the story needs.. this why, when one superman can do it, all can. The powers, the person, the characteristics are the same. Slight differences in how the story is depicted or retold, with varying scenario changes, additions etc, but essentially it's the same person, presumably the same company writes the character too. Powers and character are the same.

    So while what one superman can do, all can, not all will, because what they end up doing is only what the narrative needs them to do.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post

    So while what one superman can do, all can, not all will, because what they end up doing is only what the narrative needs them to do.
    Once again, this is not true. Every iteration of Superman has it's own strengths...not all of them are equal.

    Superman has never really received any new powers in all his iterations (that I know of), it's just that each iteration show cases them in different scenarios to do different things as the story needs.. this why, when one superman can do it, all can. The powers, the person, the characteristics are the same. Slight differences in how the story is depicted or retold, with varying scenario changes, additions etc, but essentially it's the same person, presumably the same company writes the character too. Powers and character are the same.
    Not true. Golden Age Superman's powers were very limited. They're the ones you hear about whenever the whole "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" is brought up. Because originally, he couldn't fly...just jump really far. He was strong...but no where near as strong as he his now. Then the Silver Age happened and Superman was given new powers constantly. Which led to Crisis on Infinite Earths... which was pretty much an entire reboot of DC continuity and Superman came back with his classic power set (Flight/Strength/Speed/Invulnerability/etc) but even those were reduced from previous levels. Then you have things like Red Superman/Blue Superman...the less said of the better. Even in the fairly recent books he was given a new "Super Flare" ability...which is a massive blast which depletes all of the stored kryptonian energy from his body...leaving him temporarily powerless.

    Here's some more Silver Age Silliness:

    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2020-12-12 at 04:10 AM.

  4. #24
    Supposedly Superman is incredibly smart, but you rarely see it happen. His brain is far superior than humans, it can hold more information and operate at a much higher speed than humans. He could read entire libraries in minutes.

    Why don't you see him using this genius intellect more often? His wanting to be more of a man than a god and because of this, he sets limits on himself. Because of these limits, the Justice League needs to exist(if he didn't limit himself, there'd never be a need for another hero) and so because some people specialize in intellect like Batman, there's no need for Superman to be that.

    Literally just doesn't want to hurt batmans feelings xD

  5. #25
    Superman's main weakeness (aside from the obvious) is how easily he is manipulated.

  6. #26
    According to Red Son Superman is smarter than Luthor, but Luthor is more ruthless. Even when compared to evil soviet superman.

    Basically though it's not even smarts so much as training. Superman has access to and has been instructed by the libraries of Krypton that were left to him by his father. So that gives him a pretty big leg up and allowed him to create robot supermen and helpers in the fortress of solitude.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Yeh, so true. I just had a thought of a future superman version that actually showcased the amount of intelligence it does require to do all the things he does, like the physics of flight .

    But it's not just that, he must also have a grasp of far superior krypton technology right? In a few stories, isnt he educated in his Fortress of solitude or when he discovers the ship he arrives in.

    But yeh, intelligence is perhaps one of the hardest things to genuinely el portray in a lot of fictional super hero characters

    Furthermore it seems to be the hallmark of villains "evil genius" whereas strength and power are instead the highlight of the heroes
    Don't forget he built the Fortress of Solitude and in most continuities has an army of super powerful robots to take care of the place and even help on assignments. And his father was a brilliant scientist. So I do think people are underestimating Supes's smarts.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Once again, this is not true. Every iteration of Superman has it's own strengths...not all of them are equal.



    Not true. Golden Age Superman's powers were very limited. They're the ones you hear about whenever the whole "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" is brought up. Because originally, he couldn't fly...just jump really far. He was strong...but no where near as strong as he his now. Then the Silver Age happened and Superman was given new powers constantly. Which led to Crisis on Infinite Earths... which was pretty much an entire reboot of DC continuity and Superman came back with his classic power set (Flight/Strength/Speed/Invulnerability/etc) but even those were reduced from previous levels. Then you have things like Red Superman/Blue Superman...the less said of the better. Even in the fairly recent books he was given a new "Super Flare" ability...which is a massive blast which depletes all of the stored kryptonian energy from his body...leaving him temporarily powerless.

    Here's some more Silver Age Silliness:

    [IMG]https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/683779.jpg]
    Oh. I did not know. I’ve really only ever known Superman from the screen. And they all seem to have the basic power set ability and vulnerability with just variations on what they use them for.

    I Had no idea the comics added a lot of stuff.

    Silver age Superman seems to be the one the moves and shows are based on right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Supposedly Superman is incredibly smart, but you rarely see it happen. His brain is far superior than humans, it can hold more information and operate at a much higher speed than humans. He could read entire libraries in minutes.

    Why don't you see him using this genius intellect more often? His wanting to be more of a man than a god and because of this, he sets limits on himself. Because of these limits, the Justice League needs to exist(if he didn't limit himself, there'd never be a need for another hero) and so because some people specialize in intellect like Batman, there's no need for Superman to be that.

    Literally just doesn't want to hurt batmans feelings xD
    I like this

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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Don't forget he built the Fortress of Solitude and in most continuities has an army of super powerful robots to take care of the place and even help on assignments. And his father was a brilliant scientist. So I do think people are underestimating Supes's smarts.
    Agreed. Although I think it’s because of how he sometimes seems to be gotten the upper hand over. Although those are usually through moral dilemmas. Creating situations that split his focus or force a choice which is not because he any smarter just that his opponent made a great move.

    But he always seems to get the upper hand anyway. Though that should count right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    According to Red Son Superman is smarter than Luthor, but Luthor is more ruthless. Even when compared to evil soviet superman.

    Basically though it's not even smarts so much as training. Superman has access to and has been instructed by the libraries of Krypton that were left to him by his father. So that gives him a pretty big leg up and allowed him to create robot supermen and helpers in the fortress of solitude.
    Ah, I didn’t consider that. Luther is more ruthless and sometimes that is portrayed as more intelligent. But villains often over stress their brilliance.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Silver Surfer is hardly a copy of Superman.

    Hyperion? Sure.
    The Sentry? Without a doubt.

    And as far as Marvel copying DC goes...it happens just as often the other way around as well. Often, they purposefully do it just to poke some fun at the other company.

    https://www.cbr.com/marvel-dc-rip-offs/
    The energy wielding alien who was trapped on Earth. Hmmm...

    But that wasn't my point. Surfer is more powerful in pure potency but also in breadth. Molecular re-arrangement alone puts Surfer vastly ahead of Superman.

    Most of Marvel's top characters are usually rooted in DC characters. The opposite mostly isn't true.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Oh. I did not know. I’ve really only ever known Superman from the screen. And they all seem to have the basic power set ability and vulnerability with just variations on what they use them for.

    I Had no idea the comics added a lot of stuff.

    Silver age Superman seems to be the one the moves and shows are based on right?
    The movies and Tv shows are generally based on the contemporary version of Superman at the time.

    The Christopher Reeve movies were based on Silver Age Superman.
    The Henry Cavill movies are based on Post-Crisis/New 52 Superman.

    An exception to this rule would be Superman Returns...which is a continuation of the Chris Reeve films.

    Most incarnations of Superman have the same basic power set of Flight/Strength/Speed/Invulnerability/Breath/Vision powers and a weakness to Kryptonite. But the levels of these powers can vary greatly from version to version. In addition, the properties of Kryptonite can be different from version to version as well. For example: In Smallville... exposure to Kryptonite in conjunction with a random element will give humans super-powers. In the comics, exposure to Kryptonite pretty much just gives humans cancer (happened to Lex Luthor after years of constantly wearing his kryptonite ring).

    Also, generally speaking, the movie/tv versions of characters are less powerful than their comic book counterparts. There are a few exceptions...but it's mostly true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The energy wielding alien who was trapped on Earth. Hmmm...
    "Energy wielding alien" describes a lot of heroes from both DC and Marvel. And as far as "trapped on Earth" goes...Superman isn't. He chooses to stay. He wouldn't have powers once he left the Solar System...but he could leave. Silver Surfer was, for a short period of time, trapped on Earth by Galactus as punishment for betrayal.


    But that wasn't my point. Surfer is more powerful in pure potency but also in breadth. Molecular re-arrangement alone puts Surfer vastly ahead of Superman.
    There are ways where each of them has advantages over the other. It's not really as cut and dry as "Surfer is more powerful".

    Most of Marvel's top characters are usually rooted in DC characters. The opposite mostly isn't true.
    Yeah, Which "Top Characters" of Marvel's are rooted in DC?

    Spider-Man? Nope
    Wolverine? Nah
    Captain America? Nuh uh
    Iron Man? Nah Brah

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Yes. Flash can also think faster due to his super speed. There’s a scene in injustice where the 2 play chess while discussing how to ethically protect people because no one else can keep up with him.

    https://m.imgur.com/gallery/IluRw
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2020-12-12 at 08:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  12. #32
    If he was, he'd immediately have left earth. Checkmate.

  13. #33
    Yeah he is but its not really his "Thing"

    He'd rather pretend to be a news reporter and hang out with Lois lane than utilize his intelligence and experience with alien technology.

    Or captain the Justice league which has heroes smarter than him already like Batman and Manhunter

    Its kind of the hero genre, they are not really about making the world better and more about keeping the status quo.

    Plus bad guys. Doesnt matter how smart Lex/brainaic is when Superman can nearly always out muscle their "ingenious" plans
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I know he hid his extraordinary powers growing up, I wonder if super intelligence is one of them.

    His natural mother and father were super geniuses, it's odd he is never considered in that regard or his intelligence showcased

    So how intelligent is Kal'el? He often seems to figure out Lex's plot, but not before being nearly beaten.

    Any specific comic or screen outings have highlighted?
    Super intelligence starts at 116, right?
    That's still not exactly remarkable, but still "super"
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    He'd rather pretend to be a news reporter and hang out with Lois lane than utilize his intelligence and experience with alien technology.
    This isn't the first time I've seen someone think he isn't a real reporter. He's a pulitzer prize winner (along with lois) and fiction novelist. It's not like Batman pretending to be a playboy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ProphetFlume View Post
    This isn't the first time I've seen someone think he isn't a real reporter. He's a pulitzer prize winner (along with lois) and fiction novelist. It's not like Batman pretending to be a playboy.
    probably because they never give that those type of story lines any time of day ever in the modern era? I mean theres over 60 years of superman stories you can say hes anything you want.

    Countless animated movies, real action blockbuster movies. He wears some glasses and acts like a preppy school kid. And the other 99% of the story is him saving the day.

    Or more recently just straight up nerfed out of the story or even communist russian.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    And as far as "trapped on Earth" goes...Superman isn't.
    He was trapped on Earth while growing up. Its not much of a trap but he was more or less confined if only out of inexperience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    There are ways where each of them has advantages over the other. It's not really as cut and dry as "Surfer is more powerful".
    Name one advantage that Superman has over Surfer. Its not strength, speed or durability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Yeah, Which "Top Characters" of Marvel's are rooted in DC?

    Spider-Man? Nope
    Wolverine? Nah
    Captain America? Nuh uh
    Iron Man? Nah Brah
    Batman
    Plus one for Len Wein
    Sure
    Batman

    Daredevil? Batman
    X-men? Doom Patrol
    Deadpool? MOOHAHA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    He'd rather pretend to be a news reporter
    The most interesting thing about Superman is that he's compassionate, moral individual who's also a journalist with superhuman senses. Strength? Speed? Flight? /yawn

  18. #38
    @Egomaniac I was judging by narrative. For example I just assumed Cavill Superman could do all the things Reeves and Routj Supermans could do, it’s just that the narrative didn’t give him those situations, presumably to make him and the physics more realistic

    The oil rig scene in Man of Steel felt realistic. Even though Superman could handle it, the way it was done felt realistic and didn’t make me feel he couldn’t do the other feats from the other movies

    What I felt was impressive about the production was how they handled the Man of Steel doing the usual Superman things. I didn’t feel he was needed in power.

    Am I wrong here? Is he definitely a weaker grade Superman or is that purely a speculation thing/up to each person to decide and imagine for themselves ??
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-12-12 at 06:16 PM.

  19. #39
    Superman had the mechanism from his father that taught him a lot of things. I never read the comic book. In Superman the animated series, Superman was always working with scientists and engineers. He has a habitat built in the fortress of solitude that had animals from Crypton. As Clark Kent, he was always covering technology stories. It was a great cartoon. I think it is my favorite form of superman media.


  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I know he hid his extraordinary powers growing up, I wonder if super intelligence is one of them.

    His natural mother and father were super geniuses, it's odd he is never considered in that regard or his intelligence showcased

    So how intelligent is Kal'el? He often seems to figure out Lex's plot, but not before being nearly beaten.

    Any specific comic or screen outings have highlighted?
    nope, he is so dumb that his ignorance of doppler effect make the entire lap and let him to ignore red shift of the sun light when he move with superspeed.

    like Wile E. Coyote and gravity
    12/6/2009 -23/11/2020 rip little deathstalker Ferretti. proud forsaken, enemy of the livings

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