Is Superman super intelligent?

[Ivanstone]

Do you wanna go through a list of Superheroes with one or more dead parental figure? It's a long fucking list

How about "Strong" and "Fast". Well if we're using those terms as loosely as you apply them in regards to Spider-Man and Batman...it's basically still the same list as above.

Uses Gadgets? List isn't getting any shorter. Even Superman has gadgets.

Good fighter? Again, keeping that term as vague as you are...the list is still not shrinking in any meaningful capacity.

If you want to make lists for each of those points go right ahead. But keep in mind as you make a list for each of those points how much overlap you’ll have between each list. After you start throwing out names that’s not on each list you’ll have a much, much shorter list of people. If I was gonna be salty about it that list would consist of Batman, Spider-Man, Nighthawk, Daredevil and Moon Knight.

PS Can we talk about a character who’s immensely capable and a master planner? Almost a peak human. This character has been ripped off of course. The rip off is still a pretty capable character but relies on a superpower to get in and out of trouble. Is it still a rip off?

[Egomaniac]

If you want to make lists for each of those points go right ahead. But keep in mind as you make a list for each of those points how much overlap you’ll have between each list. After you start throwing out names that’s not on each list you’ll have a much, much shorter list of people. If I was gonna be salty about it that list would consist of Batman, Spider-Man, Nighthawk, Daredevil and Moon Knight.

No, you wouldn't have a shorter list. You'd still have dozens of characters. Look at the factors

One or more dead parents. So add on Green Arrow, All of the Robins, The Hulk, Superman, Night Thrasher, Captain America, The Flash, Midnighter just to name a handful.

Good Fighter: By the criteria you determined for Spider-Man and Batman...all of these characters and more pass

Strong: Again by your own criteria, all these characters pass
Fast: Same

Variety of Gadgets: Same. Even the Hulk has been known to use gadgets.

Weird Rogues Gallery: Same. Every hero has their weird as fuck villains.

Vague similarities does not a ripoff make.

If you were saying Daredevil and Moonknight are rip offs of Batman...I'd give you the gold star. Each of them are different enough to make them interesting...but they each do share enough specific traits with the Dark Knight that there is no way to believe that it's just a coincidence.

But Spider-Man is a completely different animal.

He doesn't look like Batman
He doesn't fight like Batman
He doesn't talk like Batman
He doesn't act like Batman

Batman is a Peak Human.
Spider-Man is a Superhuman

Batman trained his whole life to become a crime fighter.
Spider-Man was given powers by accident and stumbled into crimefighting through his own mistakes.

Bruce Wayne grew up a poor kid in Queens raised by his Aunt and Uncle with very little recollection of his birth parents. He was 15 when his uncle was murdered.
Bruce Wayne grew up Rich and spent the first half of his childhood with his birth parents. He was about 10 when his parents were murdered in front of him.

Batman uses a variety of gadgets and vehicles in his crimefighting mission. He uses millions of dollars worth of equipment every single night.
Spider-Man primarily uses Webshooters and Spider-Tracers. Other devices come and go if he needs a specific solution to a specific enemy...but in day to day crimefighting...its pretty much just web up the bad guys.

Bruce is a master planner.
Peter excels at improvisation.

Yes, they have similarities....but all superheroes do. Spider-Man has just as much in common with Superman as he does with Batman.

PS Can we talk about a character who’s immensely capable and a master planner? Almost a peak human. This character has been ripped off of course. The rip off is still a pretty capable character but relies on a superpower to get in and out of trouble. Is it still a rip off?

Once again, the description you are using is so vague you could be talking about any number of characters. You could just as easily be talking about Doctor Doom as you are about Batman.

If your argument needs to be so explicitly vague in order for even you to make the connections...then you just don't have a very good argument.

[Ivanstone]

Yes, they have similarities....but all superheroes do. Spider-Man has just as much in common with Superman as he does with Batman.

Spidey really only has one significant thing in common. The power difference between Superman and Spiderman is so vast is that Spidey appears to be a weak little human. His superpowers are irrelevant in comparison. Their modus operandi are entirely different. Batman is "weaker" than Spider-man but I wouldn't really put money on that fight.

And even that one thing they have in common has an important distinction.

Spider-man is what Batman could be if he made a moral decision. Batman only ever made the choice of vengeance. Superman only ever chose power and responsibility but with him it was just assumed that was his character. Spider-man reached a point in his life where he chose between the two.

Once again, the description you are using is so vague you could be talking about any number of characters. You could just as easily be talking about Doctor Doom as you are about Batman.

If your argument needs to be so explicitly vague in order for even you to make the connections...then you just don't have a very good argument.

I could actually just be talking about Catwoman and Black Cat. You called the latter a rip-off so you're not really adhering to your human-superhuman argument very well. By your definitions Black Cat can't be a rip off because she is superhuman whereas the Catwoman is the result of training. This is what happens when you boil things down instead of wasting time pointless pictures that aren't worth looking at. I know Spider-man can climb walls better than Batman but Batman can climb walls a fuck ton better then any regular or not so regular human. Both of them do it and more importantly need to do it.

[Egomaniac]

Spidey really only has one significant thing in common. The power difference between Superman and Spiderman is so vast is that Spidey appears to be a weak little human. His superpowers are irrelevant in comparison. Their modus operandi are entirely different. Batman is "weaker" than Spider-man but I wouldn't really put money on that fight.

Written fairly, Spider-Man beats Batman 10/10 times in a random encounter. But fights between superheroes are not determined by fairness. They are determined by what the writer wants to happen.

And yes, Superman and Spider-Man have different modus operandi. But, as i have been saying over and over again...so do Batman and Spider-Man.

Spider-man is what Batman could be if he made a moral decision. Batman only ever made the choice of vengeance. Superman only ever chose power and responsibility but with him it was just assumed that was his character. Spider-man reached a point in his life where he chose between the two.

Yeah, it's almost like Spider-Man and Batman are completely different characters, with different motivations and everything.

Wait, what was the argument you were making again...that Spider-Man is a ripoff of a character that he is nothing like?

Bang up job, son.

could actually just be talking about Catwoman and Black Cat. You called the latter a rip-off so you're not really adhering to your human-superhuman argument very well. By your definitions Black Cat can't be a rip off because she is superhuman whereas the Catwoman is the result of training. .

Funny thing about the Black Cat. She didn't have Superpowers when she was created...she just did what she did with skill that was the result of training.

So even if my argument was entirely based on "One has super powers one does not" (Which, if you've been reading...it isn't... Superpowers is only a small part of the argument)...Catwoman/Black Cat still wouldn't disprove anything.

So, not only did you misrepresent my argument...you didn't even choose a good example to do so with.

[Ivanstone]

Written fairly, Spider-Man beats Batman 10/10 times in a random encounter.

Ah, so you're a Spider-man fan. That explains the butthurt.

But fights between superheroes are not determined by fairness. They are determined by what the writer wants to happen.

And yes, Superman and Spider-Man have different modus operandi. But, as i have been saying over and over again...so do Batman and Spider-Man.

You've written very, very long posts about how Batman "operates" and noted that he's a dude that punches above his weight. Again I wouldn't put money on that fight.

Yeah, it's almost like Spider-Man and Batman are completely different characters, with different motivations and everything.

Wait, what was the argument you were making again...that Spider-Man is a ripoff of a character that he is nothing like?

Different motivations that lead to very similar results using often very similar methods. Funny how that works. Spider-man simply does what Batman using super powers instead of gadgets and training. It really is that simple. The simplest way to look at Spidey is that he's Batman who decided to be a better guy. The primary reason I don't care for Batman is that he has Great Power but Little Responsibility.

Funny thing about the Black Cat. She didn't have Superpowers when she was created...she just did what she did with skill that was the result of training.

So even if my argument was entirely based on "One has super powers one does not" (Which, if you've been reading...it isn't... Superpowers is only a small part of the argument)...Catwoman/Black Cat still wouldn't disprove anything.

So, not only did you misrepresent my argument...you didn't even choose a good example to do so with.

You constantly over-present the importance of super-powers. How am I supposed to know what you're thinking? Catwoman has mostly stayed the same since creation in terms of ability. Black Cat has had some fluctuations in power level and yet I still look at her the same way for the past 30-35 years. A rip-off of Catwoman. Even characters that diverged farther from their source (ex Deadpool) are still rip-offs.

[Egomaniac]

Ah, so you're a Spider-man fan. That explains the butthurt.



You've written very, very long posts about how Batman "operates" and noted that he's a dude that punches above his weight. Again I wouldn't put money on that fight.

Spidey fights above his weight as well. But again, all that comes down to writers. Without writer Bias...Batman wouldn't be able to take Spider-Man one v one. Spider-Sense And superior Speed makes it so Batman, despite his superior fighting ability, will struggle to land a hit. Spider-Sense and Superior agility will see to that. And If Spidey wants to end the fight...it's a one punch win.

Different motivations that lead to very similar results using often very similar methods. Funny how that works. Spider-man simply does what Batman using super powers instead of gadgets and training. It really is that simple. The simplest way to look at Spidey is that he's Batman who decided to be a better guy.

Yeah. If he made different choices, had different abilities, spent his life training to be a superhero, etc... He'd be just like Batman. But he didn't make those choices...because he's a completely different character.

You constantly over-present the importance of super-powers. How am I supposed to know what you're thinking? Catwoman has mostly stayed the same since creation in terms of ability. Black Cat has had some fluctuations in power level and yet I still look at her the same way for the past 30-35 years. A rip-off of Catwoman. Even characters that diverged farther from their source (ex Deadpool) are still rip-offs.

You seem to be missing every other factor I've mentioned regarding the differences between these heroes and are focusing solely on "powers/no powers."

Read again:

He doesn't look like Batman
He doesn't fight like Batman
He doesn't talk like Batman
He doesn't act like Batman

Batman is a Peak Human.
Spider-Man is a Superhuman

Batman trained his whole life to become a crime fighter.
Spider-Man was given powers by accident and stumbled into crimefighting through his own mistakes.

Bruce Wayne grew up a poor kid in Queens raised by his Aunt and Uncle with very little recollection of his birth parents. He was 15 when his uncle was murdered.
Bruce Wayne grew up Rich and spent the first half of his childhood with his birth parents. He was about 10 when his parents were murdered in front of him.

Batman uses a variety of gadgets and vehicles in his crimefighting mission. He uses millions of dollars worth of equipment every single night.
Spider-Man primarily uses Webshooters and Spider-Tracers. Other devices come and go if he needs a specific solution to a specific enemy...but in day to day crimefighting...its pretty much just web up the bad guys.

Bruce is a master planner.
Peter excels at improvisation.

One of those things mentions Powers.

The rest is everything else.

Personality, Origin, Style, Training, Motivation, tactics...all different. Even if Spider-Man had zero powers they'd still be completely different characters.

The primary reason I don't care for Batman is that he has Great Power but Little Responsibility.

There's an article that deals with that here:

https://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris...cter-ever-yes/

It's not the subject of the article...but the author writes some itneresting things about Batman

Every now and then someone will ask me just why it is that I like Batman so much, and the best way I can put it is that there's this pure, beautiful idea at the center of his character. Bruce Wayne has this perfect life until crime takes it away from him, so he decides right there that he's going to end Crime by himself. The fact that he's a child when this happens is a crucial part of the story, because if he was older, he'd realize the inherent flaw in that plan. He'd understand that the world isn't a fair place, and that sometimes bad things happen to good people for no reason, and that there's not much anyone can do about it. Only a child would think it was possible for one man to end crime, but because he's a child, that's exactly what he decides to do.

That's the thing about Batman. He grew up...but in a lot of ways he's still just that little kid that watched his parents get killed.

It goes on to further elaborate what makes Spider-Man different from Batman

If Batman is a child's fantasy, then Spider-Man is very much rooted in being a teenager. When we're first introduced to Peter Parker in Amazing Fantasy #15, he's an outsider who feels isolated from everyone around him. He's miserable and resentful, but not because of some sort of defining tragedy, but because that's how you feel when you're a teenager. When he gets the one thing he wants -- the power that makes him stronger, faster and more popular than anyone else -- he promptly screws up and loses one of the only people that truly cared about him.

It's too long to post the entire thing...but its a fantastic read for anyone that is interested in that kind of thing.

[Dhrizzle]

Friedman and Starlin created Thanos, taking the basic inspiration from Kirby's Darkseid.

I just think it's important to note Starlin and Friedman were the creators of Thanos. In case anyone gets it mixed up with Kirby as is often the case.

My favourite story about the creation of Thanos is one of the editors seeing what the artist was doing and saying "Beef him up! If you're going to steal one of the New Gods, at least rip off Darkseid, the really good one!"

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Spider-Man is nothing like Batman.

Iron Man has a passing similarity to Bruce Wayne in the fact that they are both Rich...but the similarities fade quickly after that. Stan Lee's goal with Iron Man was to take an unlikable character and make him a hero anyway.

Doom Patrol is mentioned in the article I linked. The Publication Dates make it very difficult to believe that the X-Men were created as a ripoff of Doom Patrol. Maybe Marvel Ripped off the marketing. And the same applies to DC ripping off Man-thing with Swamp Thing. The closeness of their publications makes it seem like it's more just a really strange coincidence.

Deadpool...sure. He's a Deathstroke Ripoff in character design(though Liefeld will still deny it to this day). The Characters themselves couldn't be more different though.

Daredevil and Batman...sure...similarities are there...but, once again, the characters are completely different. What they have in common is they go out at night and beat up criminals. Which is kind of the whole gig of being a vigilante.

And, as the article I linked showed, DC rips off Marvel just as much.

Aquaman? Namor.
Mr. Terrific? Mr. Fantastic

Liefeld denies that his character Wade Wilson is a rip off of Slade Wilson?!

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Superman is (or used to be) portrayed as being super smart, he built a chess robot that can consider millions of moves at once, an army of clone robots with powers similar to himself, an artificial heart for the sun, a machine that shows potential futures (one he used to see what it would be like if he and Batman had grown up sons who hung out together) and *checks notes*... our universe?

[Soimu]

he fell in love with louis lane so no
no intelligent person would ever fall in love

[Egomaniac]

Liefeld denies that his character Wade Wilson is a rip off of Slade Wilson?!

It's possible he's trolling a bit...but...

There's another Story Liefeld tells about how he created Deadpol...where he says he wasn't ripping off Deathstroke. He was ripping off Spider-Man

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/de...e-rob-liefeld/

“Let me tell you guys how it went: ‘Hey guys, Todd McFarlane, he’s kind of blowing up on Spider-Man. I need a Spider-Man in my book. Oh, wow, so, I also like Wolverine. He’s my favorite character. Black and red, black and red. Can I tie him into Wolverine’s origin? So, can I do Spider-Man with guns and knives?’”

He also says that he never even heard about the Deathstroke comparisons until like 12 years ago.

But Fabian Nicieza, deadpool's Co-Creator, has always maintained that the reason Deadpool is named "Wade Wilson" was because they decided to lean into the Deathstroke thing. So, obviously one of them is lying...

[VyersReaver]

There was this one story, that after he got some radiation he had all his abilities improved drastically.
And after that he went to the greek gods and solved some puzzle that was unsolvable prior. That was meant to prove that he is smart AF.

[Dhrizzle]

If you want to really get into the nitty-gritty of comic book companies ripping each other off the relationship between Captain Marvel (now Shazam,) the Captains Marvel (from Marvel) and Superman is pretty crazy.

Captain Marvel (Shazam) was originally brought about by Fawcett comics in a blatant attempt to make their own Superman, but better. To that end he was given the powers of flight, energy beams, invulnerability and ridiculous strength - you may notice these are all powers given to Superman by the silver age of comics. The-company-that-would-become-DC did not take this lightly and started a lawsuit over Captain Marvel ripping them off, the litigation lasted for 13 years (1940-1953) and while it was concluded that Captain Marvel was a distinct character Fawcett comics had to admit that some of their stories were directly taken from Superman stories and in the end paid fairly minor damagers to DC and agreed to shut down Captain Marvel comics.

Fast forward a dozen years and the trademark on the name Captain Marvel had lapsed. Whilst there was briefly a Captain Marvel made by another comic company it seems Marvel paid them off as the following year the alien Mar'Vell became a super-hero going by the name Captain Marvel who would have his own book for the entirety of the 1970s. Meanwhile DC bought the rights to some of Fawcett's characters including the original Captain Marvel. However due to their legal actions 30 years ago DC were not allowed to publish a comic entitled "Captain Marvel" as the trademark had lapsed and Marvel now owned those rights. Hence the original Captain Marvel's comics were called Shazam! while Marvel had their own Captain Marvel - the third of that name - in his eponymous title.

After Mar'Vell's death (from cancer, one of the few undefeatable foes in the Marvel universe) several other heroes went by the name "Captain Marvel" to ensure Marvel Comics kept the trademark. Finally in 2012 Carol Danvers - formerly known as Ms. Marvel and an ally of Mar'Vell - took the title of Captain Marvel around the time DC used one of their many universe reboots to officially rename their character Shazam.

[Beloren]

There was this one story, that after he got some radiation he had all his abilities improved drastically.
And after that he went to the greek gods and solved some puzzle that was unsolvable prior. That was meant to prove that he is smart AF.

Oh. Was that a comic episode ? Which version? It seems most of his intelligent feats are in Silver Superman, however the profile and background story of all of them does indicate he should me smart af, they just don’t really highlight it, you tend to have to deduce it base on what he does.

But please say if other versions show him that way

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If you want to really get into the nitty-gritty of comic book companies ripping each other off the relationship between Captain Marvel (now Shazam,) the Captains Marvel (from Marvel) and Superman is pretty crazy.

Captain Marvel (Shazam) was originally brought about by Fawcett comics in a blatant attempt to make their own Superman, but better. To that end he was given the powers of flight, energy beams, invulnerability and ridiculous strength - you may notice these are all powers given to Superman by the silver age of comics. The-company-that-would-become-DC did not take this lightly and started a lawsuit over Captain Marvel ripping them off, the litigation lasted for 13 years (1940-1953) and while it was concluded that Captain Marvel was a distinct character Fawcett comics had to admit that some of their stories were directly taken from Superman stories and in the end paid fairly minor damagers to DC and agreed to shut down Captain Marvel comics.

Fast forward a dozen years and the trademark on the name Captain Marvel had lapsed. Whilst there was briefly a Captain Marvel made by another comic company it seems Marvel paid them off as the following year the alien Mar'Vell became a super-hero going by the name Captain Marvel who would have his own book for the entirety of the 1970s. Meanwhile DC bought the rights to some of Fawcett's characters including the original Captain Marvel. However due to their legal actions 30 years ago DC were not allowed to publish a comic entitled "Captain Marvel" as the trademark had lapsed and Marvel now owned those rights. Hence the original Captain Marvel's comics were called Shazam! while Marvel had their own Captain Marvel - the third of that name - in his eponymous title.

After Mar'Vell's death (from cancer, one of the few undefeatable foes in the Marvel universe) several other heroes went by the name "Captain Marvel" to ensure Marvel Comics kept the trademark. Finally in 2012 Carol Danvers - formerly known as Ms. Marvel and an ally of Mar'Vell - took the title of Captain Marvel around the time DC used one of their many universe reboots to officially rename their character Shazam.

Then all the Superman’s after silver age Superman retain the powers of him then? I take all Superman hence have those powers.

Every Superman I have watched, animated, movie, series has invulnerability, eye beam, The greatest super strength, super speed and deducible super intelligence

[Ivanstone]

Personality, Origin, Style, Training, Motivation, tactics...all different. Even if Spider-Man had zero powers they'd still be completely different characters.

Results: Virtually the same. Its like Fawcett thought slapping a lightning bolt on Captain Marvel's chest and making him a kid would make him different from Superman. Until they just dropped him into stories that were exactly the same.

[VyersReaver]

Oh. Was that a comic episode ? Which version? It seems most of his intelligent feats are in Silver Superman, however the profile and background story of all of them does indicate he should me smart af, they just don’t really highlight it, you tend to have to deduce it base on what he does.

But please say if other versions show him that way

I found it, All Star Superman movie. Though, I was wrong, he didn't solve the riddle himself. Or he did, but through time fuckery, he actually didn't, he just remembered doing so.

[Egomaniac]

Results: Virtually the same. Its like Fawcett thought slapping a lightning bolt on Captain Marvel's chest and making him a kid would make him different from Superman. Until they just dropped him into stories that were exactly the same.

Well, this is getting us nowhere.

You can continue to be wrong I guess.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-dc-rip-offs/
https://www.cbr.com/marvel-dc-ripped-off/
https://screenrant.com/marvel-rip-off-dc-worst-worked/

There's a reason why Spider-Man/Batman don't make any of these lists.

But you go ahead and have a great day. I'm not going to smash my head against the wall anymore.

[Nefastus]

From what I saw on the cartoons, cartoon movies and movies (and some comics) he has the average inteligence of a human being.

[ravenmoon]

I know he hid his extraordinary powers growing up, I wonder if super intelligence is one of them.

His natural mother and father were super geniuses, it's odd he is never considered in that regard or his intelligence showcased

So how intelligent is Kal'el? He often seems to figure out Lex's plot, but not before being nearly beaten.

Any specific comic or screen outings have highlighted?

You know, I've watched every superman live action movie, series, and tons of animated stuff, even dabbled in a few comics - and you know what, I'm not really sure. I have to think about it, because it isn't obvious. He's smart, that's for sure, but super smart/genius? I dunno.

I expect he should be, but it's not the part of him they want to highlight, even if it's part of his "skills" or attributes.

[Dhrizzle]

Oh. Was that a comic episode ? Which version? It seems most of his intelligent feats are in Silver Superman, however the profile and background story of all of them does indicate he should me smart af, they just don’t really highlight it, you tend to have to deduce it base on what he does.

But please say if other versions show him that way

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Then all the Superman’s after silver age Superman retain the powers of him then? I take all Superman hence have those powers.

Every Superman I have watched, animated, movie, series has invulnerability, eye beam, The greatest super strength, super speed and deducible super intelligence

Yeah pretty much. Original Superman could only jump really high and he was throw-a-tank strong, not punch mountains to bits. He also had to be careful around regular weapons as they could damage him eventually.

[Shadowferal]

Spider-Man is the most powerful character in his class..or was. Not sure what his level is now as writers don't care about consistency these days.
He used to bench 10 tons and had a practical reaction time that had him dodging bullets already fired (the fastest in the comicbooks). Add in his spidey sense...and tagging him would be one hell of a problem. There were comicbooks that showed him letting typical bank robber punching him with the result being the robber holding a busted hand. (Once a person reaches a certain strength it was always that point where Joe Badguy could never go hand-to-hand. And martial arts rarely ever made a difference. That point reinforced the musculoskeletal structure to such a degree that even tagging pressure points didn't make a difference.

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Yeah pretty much. Original Superman could only jump really high and he was throw-a-tank strong, not punch mountains to bits. He also had to be careful around regular weapons as they could damage him eventually.

He was also a bit of a dick, and less than careful about doling out permanent injuries.

[Berndorf]

Spidey - This one I'd say is pretty original just because he's part of the original "heroes with problems" Marvel ethos. For inspiration though I'd point to Robin.
Wolverine - Wildcat is probably the closest example, although since Wolverine started as a hulk villain you'd be better off citing characters like Cheetarah.
Captain America - Golden Age Superman
Iron Man - definitely Batman.

Really though the main source of overlap between the two franchises is Jack Kirby. His art style defined both businesses for decades and he's responsible for the New Gods as well as Thor which are both takes on each other along with countless other characters. Hulk - Solomon Grundy, Thanos - Darkseid, Asgardians - New Gods, and so on.

I don't think its really fair or accurate to say that everything must always be a copy of something else. Captain America was a reaction to what writers thought kids would want to read during ww2(a super soldier created to fight Nazis). Iron Man's only similarity to Batman is being rich and smart. All heroes tend to share a similar mindset but writers try to make them their own to some degree. I think Thor was more of Lee's idea as well though obviously Kirby had a heavy hand in developing all of the 60's characters other than Spider-man since he drew almost all of Marvel's comics in that decade.