View Poll Results: How many years in prison should he get?

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    16 27.59%
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    3 5.17%
  • 10-15

    6 10.34%
  • 15+

    33 56.90%
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  1. #901
    He'll probably end up an icon of resistance for some, like William Morales, Assata Shakur, and Elizabeth Ann Duke became.

    Or he'll go down as a terrorist because he's not a radical leftist terrorist like they were. Shit, Shakur and Morales had university buildings named in their honor at CUNY.

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Slightly relevant.
    Watching Simpsons this morning with subtitles on and Abe Simpson says "Well call me Mint Jelly because I'm on the lam" which I thought was both a nice pun and coincidental with me learning the epxression a couple of days ago :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    He'll probably end up an icon of resistance for some, like William Morales, Assata Shakur, and Elizabeth Ann Duke became.

    Or he'll go down as a terrorist because he's not a radical leftist terrorist like they were. Shit, Shakur and Morales had university buildings named in their honor at CUNY.
    hes already being lored into status in the duncan lemp, Randy Weaver, Uncle tim world.

    Its amazing how you try and obfuscate what you mean to look reasonable while crying in far right language.

  4. #904
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    hes already being lored into status in the duncan lemp, Randy Weaver, Uncle tim world.

    Its amazing how you try and obfuscate what you mean to look reasonable while crying in far right language.
    Nah, folks on the extremes will get lionized by the extremes.

    But do you think Rittenhouse will get a university building named after him?

  5. #905
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Nah, folks on the extremes will get lionized by the extremes.

    But do you think Rittenhouse will get a university building named after him?
    Isn't there another thread that is waiting for a stupid "both sides!!!!!!" argument? I find it somewhat useless here.

  6. #906
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Nah, folks on the extremes will get lionized by the extremes.

    But do you think Rittenhouse will get a university building named after him?
    Why would a murderer get a building a named after him?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  7. #907
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Why would a murderer get a building a named after him?
    Asatta Shakur did.

  8. #908
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Asatta Shakur did.
    Which college is named after her?

    You mean this?

    On December 12, 2006, the Chancellor of the City University of New York, Matthew Goldstein, directed City College's president, Gregory H. Williams, to remove the "unauthorized and inappropriate" designation of the "Guillermo Morales/Assata Shakur Community and Student Center," which was named by students in 1989.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Why would a murderer get a building a named after him?
    Trump University doesn’t exist anymore but maybe Liberty University will do it.....
    Last edited by Bodakane; 2021-02-08 at 01:03 PM.

  10. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    hes already being lored into status in the duncan lemp, Randy Weaver, Uncle tim world.

    Its amazing how you try and obfuscate what you mean to look reasonable while crying in far right language.
    You also see this a lot in countries like poland where they hold anti farleft and nazi rallies, turns out they are always just that countries brand of fascists.

  11. #911
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    But do you think Rittenhouse will get a university building named after him?
    How about you all continue to send hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for Kyle’s bond, while he goes to bars flipping the white power symbol and now can’t be found by cops. You think he gives a shit and will return, so the money can return? You think he is laughing about it, where every KKK is hiding him?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  12. #912

    Alliance

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    How about you all continue to send hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for Kyle’s bond, while he goes to bars flipping the white power symbol and now can’t be found by cops. You think he gives a shit and will return, so the money can return? You think he is laughing about it, where every KKK is hiding him?
    This is an oddly hostile reaction, unless this event was personal to you. Strange to insert the KKK out of nowhere as well.

    Also, please tell me you are not referring to the “ok” hand gesture.
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD

  13. #913
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    This is an oddly hostile reaction, unless this event was personal to you. Strange to insert the KKK out of nowhere as well.
    Kyle's a white supremacist terrorist who murdered two people.

    The KKK are white supremacist terrorists who have murdered people.

    It's really not "out of nowhere".

    Also, please tell me you are not referring to the “ok” hand gesture.
    You mean the actual, real hate gesture?

    https://www.adl.org/education/refere...y-hand-gesture
    https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/76472...symbol-of-hate
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/15/u...ite-power.html

    1> It started as a hoax, but it stopped being a hoax when white supremacists started using it for real.
    2> That there's an innocent use for the gesture is not a counter-argument, as the entire point of such gestures is to act as a dog-whistle, and dog-whistles are meant to conceal the intent; they are coded messaging that only show their true meaning for those "in the know". Repurposing a traditional symbol is standard practice. See also the KKK and a burning cross. See also the Nazis and the swastika/hakenkreuz. See also the "Roman salute" the Nazis adopted and the Bellamy salute in the USA. I could go on.


  14. #914
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Also, please tell me you are not referring to the “ok” hand gesture.
    Call it whatever you want, and be surprised as much as you want, but the OK symbol HAS been appropriated. Just like the Nazi symbol, the swastika, was appropriated from Buddhism. Not to the same level, obviously, but same concept.

  15. #915
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Call it whatever you want, and be surprised as much as you want, but the OK symbol HAS been appropriated. Just like the Nazi symbol, the swastika, was appropriated from Buddhism. Not to the same level, obviously, but same concept.
    Just as a minor point, while we insist on calling it a "swastika", which is the name in Sanskrit, its use by the Nazis has essentially zero connection to any Eastern religious or ideological uses. It was already in use by ethnonationalists prior to the Nazi Party as a symbol of Aryanism, and it has a Christian origin, as a hakenkreuz (German for "bent cross"). It would be really fuckin' weird for race-supremacists likes the Nazis to adopt a non-white symbol as their emblem, no? Yeah, they didn't.

    I figure we reflexively call it a "swastika" to remove the cultural connotations of cross symbology in the West, but that's about it. It wasn't a foreign symbol, it was very much a German symbol, always.

    Obviously, the same symbol's cropped up all over the world over the last, oh, 7,000 years or so that we know of. It just seems weird to bring up Hinduism and Bhuddism in this particular conversation, every time, when they had absolutely nothing to do with the Nazi's choice of symbol.


  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Just as a minor point, while we insist on calling it a "swastika", which is the name in Sanskrit, its use by the Nazis has essentially zero connection to any Eastern religious or ideological uses. It was already in use by ethnonationalists prior to the Nazi Party as a symbol of Aryanism, and it has a Christian origin, as a hakenkreuz (German for "bent cross"). It would be really fuckin' weird for race-supremacists likes the Nazis to adopt a non-white symbol as their emblem, no? Yeah, they didn't.

    I figure we reflexively call it a "swastika" to remove the cultural connotations of cross symbology in the West, but that's about it. It wasn't a foreign symbol, it was very much a German symbol, always.

    Obviously, the same symbol's cropped up all over the world over the last, oh, 7,000 years or so that we know of. It just seems weird to bring up Hinduism and Bhuddism in this particular conversation, every time, when they had absolutely nothing to do with the Nazi's choice of symbol.
    It wasn't a German symbol. Germany appropriated it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just mean they got it from someone else and used it in their own way. Hitler then bastardized it with it's association to the Nazi's.

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...f-the-swastika

  17. #917
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    He'll probably end up an icon of resistance for some, like William Morales, Assata Shakur, and Elizabeth Ann Duke became.

    Or he'll go down as a terrorist because he's not a radical leftist terrorist like they were. Shit, Shakur and Morales had university buildings named in their honor at CUNY.
    Shakur... is comparable to rittenhouse?? Wow lol. You don’t know much about history do you

  18. #918
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    It wasn't a German symbol. Germany appropriated it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just mean they got it from someone else and used it in their own way. Hitler then bastardized it with it's association to the Nazi's.

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/conte...f-the-swastika
    Your own link confirms that it was using in Europe in the 19th and early 20th as a symbol of Aryanism and of general good luck.

    The Nazis appropriated it from that use (though the connection to Aryanism wasn't a big stretch), but that was my original point; appropriated symbols do carry the connotations of that appropriation, even if there are innocent uses. I was disputing the idea that it was taken from hinduism or bhuddism, specifically. At best, we're talking about a 19th Century European conception of some prehistorical Aryan tradition which would have evolved separately into European and Indian traditions.


  19. #919
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Kyle's a white supremacist terrorist who murdered two people.

    The KKK are white supremacist terrorists who have murdered people.

    It's really not "out of nowhere".
    I don't disagree with assertions that Rittenhouse's actions are largely indefensible; however, whether he is actually a white supremacist is not known. While circumstantial evidence is important in trying to determine whether this is the case, what has been presented does not appear sufficient to make that determination and the appending of irrelevant descriptors (i.e.: white supremacist, KKK, etc.) just makes the core evidence for his wrongdoing seem weaker than it is (i.e.: it makes it seem like he didn't actually do anything wrong, so villainizing him through association to deplorable groups/beliefs is used to imply guilt). If there's evidence to the contrary I'm open to it, but from what I'm aware the rumors of his ties to white supremacists group all center around a single image of him with some Proud Boys, where we don't even know if he has any meaningful ties with the group or has a full understanding of what the OK symbol means within that context, especially considering that the OK symbol isn't something that many people understand (i.e.: how it is a white power symbol).

    Again, I'm open to more evidence if additional developments have occurred, and I'm aware that prosecutors have requested restrictions on Rittenhouse's bond over the image (which I believe was approved), but I've not seen anything that actually convinces me that this evidence therefore means that he is definitely a white supremacist. Moreover, what he did wrong should be strong enough to condemn him without having to add on additional descriptors that may detract from criticisms of him.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Your own link confirms that it was using in Europe in the 19th and early 20th as a symbol of Aryanism and of general good luck.

    The Nazis appropriated it from that use (though the connection to Aryanism wasn't a big stretch), but that was my original point; appropriated symbols do carry the connotations of that appropriation, even if there are innocent uses. I was disputing the idea that it was taken from hinduism or bhuddism, specifically. At best, we're talking about a 19th Century European conception of some prehistorical Aryan tradition which would have evolved separately into European and Indian traditions.
    Fair enough, it does have connections in several cultures, not just Buddhism, never really meant to imply otherwise, I just chose to specify Buddhism because that's one of the other religions/cultures that used it rather than listing the several others that did too, it was also the only one I knew off the top of my head that did.

    The point was only that the symbol was appropriated by the Nazi's from those other cultures and because of how prevalent and horrible they were, the symbol is seen more as the Nazi symbol than anything else, for those that aren't steeped in the other cultures that already associated it with things other than the Nazi's.

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