So, what do you think of the loot change in Shadowlands regarding m+?

[Caerrona]

Reviewing this part; the cap is 1650 conquest a week; thus you can get almost 2 items a week on average till then.

Its 550 a week, the total cap as of week 3 is 1650, so next week the TOTAL cap is 2200.

[Qnubi]

Then that means you are failing to meet timers 40% of the time yet you still want to be rewarded for doing the run in time........

The chance you PERSONALLY get loot is 40% in-time. Overall in-time 2 items will drop. The chance to get an item if you fail a run is 20% (1 item drops). No idea what you are talking about, are you somehow believing you get an item 100% in-time?

40% in 10 runs is simple math, 4 drops for you personally if you finish each dungeon in-time.

[kaminaris]

Found the Twitter user

Next you're gonna be saying the game's not inclusive enough and needs easier difficulty settings.

Fuck my generation. Just does not want to work for a single thing in their life. Just wants it handed to them the same way it was in their childhood lol

Dude, what are you even on about? Have you actually compared current loot system to previous ones? Did you give it a second thought or never?
Not even vanilla had so much issues.

[Kwaizar]

I ran Mists and Spires Hc dungeons 30 times ( 15 each ) just to try and get a neck item - 26 times no loot dropped what so ever - it is indeed getting stupid,

[zafran]

I like how loot is less than it used to, but i also see flaws in the system.
I care about which boss drops what item more than i did in all of bfa. I couldnt care less about what purple item the boss dropped back then. Was gonna sim my bags and equip the best item in it. Now we have less gear to choose from, it IS rewarding whenever you get an upgrade. Anyone saying its not is lying.

My issue with the system comes from m+. Both raiding and pvp are in a good spot imo (conquest weekly cap is iffy but still) m+ on the other hand feels unrewarding considering how much time, effort, and gold it takes to do higher keys. If they revert the m+ changes to drop 3 pieces of loot instead of two in a timed dungeon it would feel alot better imo (timed ofc)

[Caerrona]

I like how loot is less than it used to, but i also see flaws in the system.
I care about which boss drops what item more than i did in all of bfa. I couldnt care less about what purple item the boss dropped back then. Was gonna sim my bags and equip the best item in it. Now we have less gear to choose from, it IS rewarding whenever you get an upgrade. Anyone saying its not is lying.

My issue with the system comes from m+. Both raiding and pvp are in a good spot imo (conquest weekly cap is iffy but still) m+ on the other hand feels unrewarding considering how much time, effort, and gold it takes to do higher keys. If they revert the m+ changes to drop 3 pieces of loot instead of two in a timed dungeon it would feel alot better imo (timed ofc)

I feel rewarded from keys when myself or one of the 4 people i run with gets a drop. People just don't want to put in effort or time. They want a greater rift explosion of purples at the end of a dungeon.

[Dawon]

I love it, I can finally not feel the pressure to farm m+ or try to convince the guild tanks to ditch their clique group and tank a few keys for the rest of us.

No loot at all from m+ would be my preferred way, only cosmetics stuff! Loot from raids/pvp and that's it. Probably an insanely unpopular opinion but opinions are what you asked for!

Also the whole "less loot everywhere" is a very welcome addition to the game. Loot should be scarce, it makes the drop so much more fun to get and also makes the raids more interesting as you cannot just farm m+, overgear the shit outta the raids and more or less brute force stuff.
Less loot = more skill needed => awesome direction of the game.

[Philomene]

The old system was a lot of loot endorphins week one and then mostly sharding non titanforged items and having a weekly chest of disappointment experience.

Now week one is a bit of a slow burn, but looting a purple is more fun most of the time and I know that my first 10 runs are actually helping me with the loot that counts.

So for me it's 10/10 please never go back.

Yes, same here. People can play D3 or Borderlands if they only care about the loot shower where 95% of the loot would just end up DE'd or sold. Personal Loot being enforced is quite an issue though.

[RobertMugabe]

I have yet to see anyone get excited to get nothing except a repair bill at the end of a run. Is this big Blizzards idea to sell tokens for loot funnels? Not getting the math at all. Even more annoying that they just throw gear for PvP. Hell, I wanted to cry when I found I can buy mythic quality weapon with nearly perfectly stats with honor after several handfuls of runs with NOTHING.

Its created a more toxic environment if anything. I've seen so many more people rage quit when mythics look like they're going to go south, and why shouldnt they when its a 20% chance to get anything except another strike on the weekly vault.

My subscription ends here soon, and I see no reason to renew it until later on in the expansion when I can atleast fly.

You must farm quite a bit of pvp to just unlock a 184 honor weapon, which you won't be able to unlock any further until renown 22.

The conquest weapons are very expensive too and it's impossible to get a 2hander right now, unless you had luck with the great vault. And even then it is just ilvl200 without a rank.

[Rageonit]

Dude, what are you even on about? Not even vanilla had so much issues.

Oh really? AFAIR I had to farm for weeks to get my Beaststalker set and start raiding MC, and in instances like BRD and UBRS/LBRS, that were a lot, lot, LOT more time consuming than any instances we have right now. I'm guessing you can run a few M+ in the span of time that was required to do single BRD, especially when the game was still young and most people didn't know what they are doing. And yes, you could also get shit all from that BRD run.

No, current expansion is hundred times easier to gear up, your memory has to be really blurry. You can run Ms, do normal raid (or LFR even soon), there's a weekly world boss, chance to get decent item from the epic daily chest, last week was guaranteed Heroic raid level drop from the weekly event, there's the Great Vault... But yeah, it's worse than vanilla xD Don't know what you're on about, mate.

I have a guildie that was ragining in Discord this weekend that he still didn't upgrade his chest to raid level gear (last item he needs upgraded), and we're just what, month into the expansion? It's not a game problem, it's a mentality problem. All the posts about 30 runs and zero gear are trolls, obviously. Something drops for me every other run - granted, not always an upgrade, but I do get drops. I'm enjoying the pace of this expansion very much.

[Ludvig]

i still think m+ gives too good gear from the weekly vault. doing +10s is way easier than clearing hc raid and rewards 7 higher ilvls than hc raids lol. not even gonna start comparing clearing every boss in mythic CN (2 guilds have done this ever thus far) vs doing 10 +14s that don't even have to be timed lol

[kaminaris]

Oh really? AFAIR I had to farm for weeks to get my Beaststalker set and start raiding MC, and in instances like BRD and UBRS/LBRS, that were a lot, lot, LOT more time consuming than any instances we have right now. I'm guessing you can run a few M+ in the span of time that was required to do single BRD, especially when the game was still young and most people didn't know what they are doing. And yes, you could also get shit all from that BRD run.

Again, you didn't give it a second thought. Like usual. First of all, group/master loot, second, very good crafted items, third, content being way easier.

No, current expansion is hundred times easier to gear up, your memory has to be really blurry. You can run Ms, do normal raid (or LFR even soon), there's a weekly world boss, chance to get decent item from the epic daily chest, last week was guaranteed Heroic raid level drop from the weekly event, there's the Great Vault... But yeah, it's worse than vanilla xD Don't know what you're on about, mate.

I know math. That is what I am on about. These are not decent loot compared to difficulty. Those items are trash. With no bad luck protection or alternatives whatsoever. Epic/blue etc doesn't matter. Literally doesn't matter. What matters is power level and difficulty level. Also what matters is ability to offset bad luck with actually decent items which just doesn't exist.

I have a guildie that was ragining in Discord this weekend that he still didn't upgrade his chest to raid level gear (last item he needs upgraded), and we're just what, month into the expansion? It's not a game problem, it's a mentality problem. All the posts about 30 runs and zero gear are trolls, obviously. Something drops for me every other run - granted, not always an upgrade, but I do get drops. I'm enjoying the pace of this expansion very much.

No, it is a game problem because you don't understand big picture. It's not just lower droprates that is the issue. And no, these 30 runs and zero gear can happen with ease. I myself have like 17 M+ done or so and I only got ONE drop from it. There is nothing guaranteed, and there is nothing to offset that.

[Rageonit]

Again, you didn't give it a second thought. Like usual. First of all, group/master loot, second, very good crafted items, third, content being way easier.

Well I think I actually gave it some thought. I play this game since release, so I had some time to think about this and that - I just don't agree with you and by the tone of your posts I'm assuming that if somebody doesn't agrees with your POV, he "didn't give it a second thought". Sorry, but I'm not your average newb who started playing in BFA and complains about drop rates in SL.

As for content being easier back then - in what respect? And in what context? In the context of today's player skill? Sure. In the context of player skill back then? Hell no. Even NAVIGATING the dungeons could give people headache back then. Just like dodging basic mechanics. No, time investment is a better measure, from my perspective. You had to invest a lot more time to do a BRD run than you have to invest now to do a couple M+ runs, difficulty level nothwithstanding. And you could get shit all from a 2h 5-man instance. Yes, 2h. People clear normal raids nowadays in 2h. Or are you arguing we should get more rewards now, because fights have more mechanics, even though most people are better at dodging them nowadays? Like, I don't know, a medal for accomplishments? Heh.

I know math. That is what I am on about. These are not decent loot compared to difficulty. Those items are trash. With no bad luck protection or alternatives whatsoever. Epic/blue etc doesn't matter. Literally doesn't matter. What matters is power level and difficulty level. Also what matters is ability to offset bad luck with actually decent items which just doesn't exist.

Sorry, but I call bullshit. Weekly event reward is 213 AFAIR, and you have to do 4 m0 for that. If you have half decent gear, you storm through m0. I do 6s and 7s right now on my resto sham and he is 183 (got it from heroics, some BoEs and a world boss drop). Same for the Vault. Doing a 10 is not a HUGE accomplishment and it rewards higher ilvl than heroic raid. You can do 5 or 6 easily and get a single 213. FOR A SINGLE RUN! Sure, Vault can screw you over too, but it's a huge upgrade over BfA anyway. Just do a few runs more for bigger selection of items. World boss can drop 207 and all you need to do is tag it and die. Hard much? There's a steady influx of items every week. Slower than BfA, granted, but let me repeat: WE ARE MONTH INTO THE EXPANSION. Just look at the context. My guildie complaining about not getting his LAST raid upgrade is still in for half a year of this patch. Lawl. But no, gimme gimme gimme NOW!!!11!!

No, it is a game problem because you don't understand big picture. It's not just lower droprates that is the issue. And no, these 30 runs and zero gear can happen with ease. I myself have like 17 M+ done or so and I only got ONE drop from it. There is nothing guaranteed, and there is nothing to offset that.

No, I have a different opinion. You should start working on your social skills by accepting that people have different opinions. There's no single big picture. You have different expectations than I do, but there's no magic formula for quantity of loot that should drop any given week. I'm happy with what I get.

EDIT: Oh, and don't get me started on Master Looter in vanilla and PUGs trying to ninja every single item that dropped, even if they didn't need xD But from time perspective, fun times, I give you that. Newsflash: Beaststalker was a CLASS set, so Master Looter meant shit all. It just had to drop for me. And some items were very reluctant to drop, for some reason... But yeah, rose tinted glasses and all that, vanilla was miles better, yadda yadda. It probably took more time back then to get into BRD on foot than it does now to list yourself in LFG, do a m+ with randoms and just wait for a tasty reward from the Vault on Wed morning. Well Im exaggerating, time investment was probably comparable.

EDIT2: Plus, I totally forgot. Crafting's still there. You know that you can craft yourself a 235 item, right? Some of my guildies already have a 235 BiS. And you get that by doing... single player content. That was nerfed to the ground just recently. But ye, we don't get items fast enough!

[Stardrift]

Dude, what are you even on about? Have you actually compared current loot system to previous ones? Did you give it a second thought or never?
Not even vanilla had so much issues.

What issues?

Loot isn't handed out to you left and right. Weapons are meant to be scarce from raids. This is a good thing. Slows down the pace a little bit, that way people are in lower end content longer for those who usually lag behind.

Only thing I'll say is Torghast needs to have a loot system put in place.

[kamuimac]

What issues?

Loot isn't handed out to you left and right. Weapons are meant to be scarce from raids. This is a good thing. Slows down the pace a little bit, that way people are in lower end content longer for those who usually lag behind.

Only thing I'll say is Torghast needs to have a loot system put in place.

it doesnt slow down pace a bit - it completly stops it for majority of playerbase

and no loot doesnt feel more rewarding - loot feel unfun and is making people stop playing game.

if blizzards goal was to loose 80-90% of playing custmers ? well then they are doing very good job with it.

[ellieg]

it doesnt slow down pace a bit - it completly stops it for majority of playerbase

and no loot doesnt feel more rewarding - loot feel unfun and is making people stop playing game.

if blizzards goal was to loose 80-90% of playing custmers ? well then they are doing very good job with it.

Lol they aren't losing 80-90%. You only hear the cry babies on the forums. 80-90% are in game enjoying themselves.

Multiple guaranteed ilvl upgrades every single week. On average a ~3 ilvl gain each week if you spend your time appropriately. With renown, everyone will be 200 base ilvl in a couple weeks. Some ppl jumped ahead early but their progress is capped. Its 1 month in and ppl are acting like chicken little. Give it another month and you'll be wondering why you ever complained.

[Voidwielder]

M+ kinda big demotivating right now.

I'm seeing people with 10/10 HC two weeks in a row but at most 2-4 timed 10s having 4-5 ilvls over me while I'm on my 43rd timed 10 with very few HC kills (I work night shifts so organized raiding is impossible for me). I still have 184 trinket and x2 197s.

I ran 5 Mists 12 this morning for the trinket... well, I have 175 more anima! And my 6th pet! I could get 2 more upgrades from it besides the trinket but those too, refuse to drop.

[ellieg]

M+ kinda big demotivating right now.

I'm seeing people with 10/10 HC two weeks in a row but at most 2-4 timed 10s having 4-5 ilvls over me while I'm on my 43rd timed 10 with very few HC kills (I work night shifts so organized raiding is impossible for me). I still have 184 trinket and x2 197s.

I ran 5 Mists 12 this morning for the trinket... well, I have 175 more anima! And my 6th pet! I could get 2 more upgrades from it besides the trinket but those too, refuse to drop.

I mean that sucks for your rng, but shouldn't people who can commit to a schedule and organize 10-30 ppl get more loot than someone that can jump on, join a group of 5 in 5 minutes, and bust out a 30 min repeatable instance? I am not 10/10 hc either so I feel you but I've accepted why my ilvl is lower.

[Stardrift]

it doesnt slow down pace a bit - it completly stops it for majority of playerbase

and no loot doesnt feel more rewarding - loot feel unfun and is making people stop playing game.

if blizzards goal was to loose 80-90% of playing custmers ? well then they are doing very good job with it.

Something tells me you started playing the game in Legion or later.

The point of MMOs used to be that it took you a while to earn your full set of BIS gear. You weren't supposed to get them in 1-3 raid runs. Since Legion, Blizz has been shitting epics out at everyone at mach 5 speed. Gear is just pointless at this point.

Yea, it feels like it's sooooo slowwww now. But that's because we've come off the sugar high that Legion and BFA had us accustomed to.

[willemh]

What do you guys mean, I've been playing for less than a week and I'm 200ilvl with full epics equipped. Every M+ drops 2 items and takes ~30-40min and pvp conquest gear guarantees you can fill the gaps you're unlucky with in dungeons.

It's extremely easy to gear up.