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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    In TBC you could easily get stuck farming Heroic dungeons. I know because that was me. I played a Prot Warrior. I couldn't find a guild that needed a tank in T5 content and even though I was an Officer in a guild that had 3 concurrent Kara runs, we still couldn't get very far in SSC. (I don't even think we bothered pulling anything in TK because half the guild didn't even have the normal speed flyer.) I killed the last boss of Heroic Mechanar 83 times before he dropped the epic sword I wanted. I didn't feel comfortable tanking Karazhan until I had it because I was obsessed with TPS and didn't want to be seen as a "bad tank" if I lost threat to DPS. It was a much, much different game back then and I can't see how anybody who can actually remember TBC would say that it was better back then.
    There was a lockout on heroic dungeons back then, you can spam heroic dungeons now as well. Equal now though is mythic and mythic +, the latter you can indeed spam for better gear than heroic dungeons in TBC ever did. I know how it was to be "stuck" to do heroic dungeons in TBC; that was me as well. And I loved it.

    It's again time to understand that people have different opinions. I remember TBC very well, its my favorite expansion to date and I probably have 25% of all my playtime in WoW when TBC was current, at least. I did it all. And I think it was great then, I still think it was, and I absolutely love that its close to that again, even though it's a lot easier to gear up now than it was back then because of mythic+.
    TBC Classic <3

    Now, where was I? Oh yes.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    There was a lockout on heroic dungeons back then, you can spam heroic dungeons now as well. Equal now though is mythic and mythic +, the latter you can indeed spam for better gear than heroic dungeons in TBC ever did. I know how it was to be "stuck" to do heroic dungeons in TBC; that was me as well. And I loved it.

    It's again time to understand that people have different opinions. I remember TBC very well, its my favorite expansion to date and I probably have 25% of all my playtime in WoW when TBC was current, at least. I did it all. And I think it was great then, I still think it was, and I absolutely love that its close to that again, even though it's a lot easier to gear up now than it was back then because of mythic+.
    I'm glad you enjoyed it. I always had aspirations to do more but it was my first expansion so I just kind accepted my fate as a hardstuck Heroic dungeoneer and did my best to make the most of the time I had in the game. I did actually have fun towards the end when Magister's Terrace was released. It wasn't until ICC that I think I came to enjoy the raiding aspect of the game and that was mostly due to the insane content drought than anything else.

    But yeah, I see people upset about not getting loot from their runs and I really question the level of entitlement Legion and BfA must have instilled in the playerbase.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm glad you enjoyed it. I always had aspirations to do more but it was my first expansion so I just kind accepted my fate as a hardstuck Heroic dungeoneer and did my best to make the most of the time I had in the game. I did actually have fun towards the end when Magister's Terrace was released. It wasn't until ICC that I think I came to enjoy the raiding aspect of the game and that was mostly due to the insane content drought than anything else.

    But yeah, I see people upset about not getting loot from their runs and I really question the level of entitlement Legion and BfA must have instilled in the playerbase.
    I also see that, but it's one of the situations where those who do not get loot gets upset and then say its not good enough on forums or are loud. While those who get loot in a normal pace are quiet and keep playing. Anecdotally, my guild notice the scarcity of loot in the raid too, but none here is particularly behind on gear. So no one is actually complaining.

    I did not get Deathbringers Will on my Hunter in ICC. I did not get MoB in BT either. It's unfortunate, but its part of the game. Sour? Sure, but to me that's an integrated part of the game, that you just don't get everything you want. People might scoff off this, but muh immersion. It prolonging the excitement for me that I don't have all I want yet, and I know its a chance I won't get it, but I think that makes gearing more interesting because 2 months in I can go into the raid and "hey, today is the day I get my bis trinket!" and find that fun. And I know, some people hate that fact, and I do understand that feeling, but to me, that's a good thing, not bad.

    When it comes to the last sentence, I get that. And I think it shows that WoW actually get new players all the time, which is a positive of course. And rewards these days are important for many. I like rewards too, but I like it when it requires a tad bit more than what was needed in BfA and Legion. I did not mind Titanforging, I didn't particularly mind the gear-showering either, I just think this is more fun. To me.
    TBC Classic <3

    Now, where was I? Oh yes.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm glad you enjoyed it. I always had aspirations to do more but it was my first expansion so I just kind accepted my fate as a hardstuck Heroic dungeoneer and did my best to make the most of the time I had in the game. I did actually have fun towards the end when Magister's Terrace was released. It wasn't until ICC that I think I came to enjoy the raiding aspect of the game and that was mostly due to the insane content drought than anything else.

    But yeah, I see people upset about not getting loot from their runs and I really question the level of entitlement Legion and BfA must have instilled in the playerbase.
    No, more like I'm older and busier now and I can no longer efficiently gear up for raids in the limited time I have like I could in Legion and BFA. I don't have time to run double the M+ I ran in BFA to get the same amount of gear. I have a kid and I have a job. I'd never play vanilla WoW with my current lifestyle, sure I liked it in my early 20s but those days are long gone. I didn't want to go back to slower gearing because it doesn't work with my current available time. I'm probably done when I run out of gold for sub if they don't change it back in the next patch. It's too slow now. Two M+, a full normal clear, and one boss short of a full heroic clear. ONE usable piece of loot. And I only have time to do a couple more M+ this week, except I have like no motivation to do so because I know the chance of loot is so low.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    In TBC you could easily get stuck farming Heroic dungeons.
    TBC was quite bad. By the end of it, I told myself that if Wrath was anything like it I'd be done right there. But the devs (or their management) learned some lessons, at least until Cataclysm came along.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    13 m+ today, 7 hours, 3 items, only 1 useable, overall 0.19 ilvl upgrade.
    Last night, 10 heroic + 3 mythic bosses, 1 item, worst stats bracers.

    Looking forward to my char being done after 10 more weeks of the weekly chest. Thank god this is the alt-friendly expansion, because it sure is so much easier and less time-consuming to keep up with alts this time around.

    But then again, who wants rewards anyways, right? Playing the game should be the reward itself after all. Next expansion we'll prolly see the removal of item drops and we'll all just get sent 1 item per week from the postmaster - that way we'll finally kill guilds like Limit and Echo doing crazy gearing strats and we'll make the game the overall bestest and funnestest it can possibly be.

    Why does everyone has to be3 done in week 1? Whats the purpose?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    Why does everyone has to be3 done in week 1? Whats the purpose?
    No one's forcing you to rush through 15 m+ a day. But you're forcing me to wait through 10 weeks of the vault - why does everyone have to wait for 10 weeks to be done? What a silly, silly argument.

    I liked being able to be done in 3 weeks. I couldn't care less about how you like to play the game. With last expansion's m+ I had the option to spam m+ like mad and be done within a week while you had the option to... not do that... and be done whenever you wanted to be done. Nowadays I can spam m+ as much as I want and I'm not getting anyfuckingthingatallwhatsoever - but that doesn't matter because you like it and that means I am wrong because your way of playing is obviously better, isn't it?

    For some fucking reason all you people who wanna play the game as fucking slowly as humanly possible take great fucking offense by me not wanting to do that. I don't want to play with you anyways, and you don't want to play with me either, so enjoy your 180 ilvl after 6 weeks if that's what you want and let me have my 220 if that's what I want. Why does it fucking bother you how I play the game? Why does the game have to fucking lock me out of my option and force your preferred way upon me? Because it doesn't negatively affect you - and that makes you think you've got to talk down to people who disagree with you.

    The purpose is that it's none of your business how I want to play the game. The purpose is that you can always choose to play as badly as you want to and still get rewarded for it while I'm getting progressively less and less for playing the hardest content in the game. Play however you fucking want and let me play however the fuck I want. You people are fucking infuriating with your why don't you just play with 150 ilvl and enjoy some pet battles instead of wanting to play the way you've been playing perfectly fine for the last 16 years.

    I hope to god that someone takes away something from you enjoy one day - and that if you even just think about being somewhat affected by that loss of something you liked you have a bunch of smug bellends telling you how worthless your opinions are. The absolute unlimited close-mindedness and unempathetic cold-heartedness you people have towards everyone who doesn't act or behave like you or who disagrees on something as trivial as fucking gear progression speed is absolutely disgusting.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Fadewind View Post
    I'm BARELY geared enough to do heroics. My complaint isn't that I'm hardly finding upgrades. It's that when I started to do heroics (which took a fucking week because my trinkets and weapon were such low ilevel that I couldn't queue, and yes, that's AFTER trying to get items to drop and not having luck with World Quests) that any upgrades I found were hardly better than the items I had.

    I didn't have a complete set of items for my main dungeon spec. I did solo stuff as feral but preferred to do dungeons as balance. In order to pad my ilvl to even do heroics, I had to equip feral trinkets (aka ones that had proc effects for increasing agility). I was getting armor and ring slots dropping, but not trinkets nor weapons for balance. World Quests were always popping up for feral trinkets.

    That's a terrible fucking excuse for Blizzard's poor design. I wasn't even fully geared from level 80 dungeons. When I'm spending hours everyday trying to get a basic fucking set and making no progress, it's awful. The solution shouldn't be: "I need to go do content that is two ranks above what I need in order to get a full set at level 80. Which is reliant on random people accepting an invite for someone barely geared for this content and hoping they don't inspect my gear and kick me for fudging ilvls."
    Doing M+ isn't at all reliant on you joining somebody else's group. Just make your own. This has nothing to do with 'needing to do content two ranks above what you need'. M0s aren't difficult. On release week I cleared them at ilvl 154.

    If you're saying that forming your own group to do content which gives you a better shot at gear is something that you're unable to do for whatever reason then I guess you're stuck just queueing for random heroics - in that case though, you can't really blame any of this on 'poor design' when you're explicitly failing to take advantage of multiple gear progression routes that are open to you. Spamming random HCs is a massively inefficient way to get gear, and if you choose to do that instead of taking the initiative and forming your own groups for other shit then that's entirely on you.

    Legit I'm trying to help you here. I made use of all of the systems available to me, and was at ~180 week 1. You could literally log on today and do the same. The alternative being that you keep doing what you're doing which clearly isn't working, and continue to get frustrated when an inefficient gear pathway continues to be inefficient.

    In fairness, the minimum ilvl req to queue for heroics is way too high. We just did Mythic 0 instead and it was 100% fine but that one thing should probably be looked at. I think there's still something to be said for forming your own groups and doing the content you're capable of, as opposed to the content that Blizzard signposts you to in the LFG tab - those ilvl reqs are set high to make sure that random groups will effectively never struggle to clear content, but there's also no rule that you have to go normal>heroic>mythic>mythic+; if you're capable enough, you can skip a step and that's also something that Blizzard fully expects players to do.
    Last edited by Elkfingers; 2020-12-27 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #89
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    No one's forcing you to rush through 15 m+ a day. But you're forcing me to wait through 10 weeks of the vault - why does everyone have to wait for 10 weeks to be done? What a silly, silly argument.

    I liked being able to be done in 3 weeks. I couldn't care less about how you like to play the game. With last expansion's m+ I had the option to spam m+ like mad and be done within a week while you had the option to... not do that... and be done whenever you wanted to be done. Nowadays I can spam m+ as much as I want and I'm not getting anyfuckingthingatallwhatsoever - but that doesn't matter because you like it and that means I am wrong because your way of playing is obviously better, isn't it?

    For some fucking reason all you people who wanna play the game as fucking slowly as humanly possible take great fucking offense by me not wanting to do that. I don't want to play with you anyways, and you don't want to play with me either, so enjoy your 180 ilvl after 6 weeks if that's what you want and let me have my 220 if that's what I want. Why does it fucking bother you how I play the game? Why does the game have to fucking lock me out of my option and force your preferred way upon me? Because it doesn't negatively affect you - and that makes you think you've got to talk down to people who disagree with you.

    The purpose is that it's none of your business how I want to play the game. The purpose is that you can always choose to play as badly as you want to and still get rewarded for it while I'm getting progressively less and less for playing the hardest content in the game. Play however you fucking want and let me play however the fuck I want. You people are fucking infuriating with your why don't you just play with 150 ilvl and enjoy some pet battles instead of wanting to play the way you've been playing perfectly fine for the last 16 years.

    I hope to god that someone takes away something from you enjoy one day - and that if you even just think about being somewhat affected by that loss of something you liked you have a bunch of smug bellends telling you how worthless your opinions are. The absolute unlimited close-mindedness and unempathetic cold-heartedness you people have towards everyone who doesn't act or behave like you or who disagrees on something as trivial as fucking gear progression speed is absolutely disgusting.
    I dislike losing my raidspot because some nolifer has no career, social life and doesn't even do the basics to stay healthy so he is able to spam M+.
    This just doesn't happen with how gearing is paced now, pretty great i'll have to say.

  10. #90
    Bloodsail Admiral Kagdar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadewind View Post
    I'm BARELY geared enough to do heroics. My complaint isn't that I'm hardly finding upgrades. It's that when I started to do heroics (which took a fucking week because my trinkets and weapon were such low ilevel that I couldn't queue, and yes, that's AFTER trying to get items to drop and not having luck with World Quests) that any upgrades I found were hardly better than the items I had.
    You know you can run heroics even when you are under the ilvl required to run them right? But instead of queuing in the LFD, just find a group and run to the dungeon's entrance.

    ____________

    As for those who complain that M+ don't give enough loot, remember that if you time a key the chest contain 2 loot for the group. So stop trying to push higher keys to feed your Vault and start running keys at levels you can actually clear and get gear faster.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I dislike losing my raidspot because some nolifer has no career, social life and doesn't even do the basics to stay healthy so he is able to spam M+.
    This just doesn't happen with how gearing is paced now, pretty great i'll have to say.
    sounds like you are in the wrong guild bro
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Finear View Post
    i get nerfing loot drops compared to legion or bfa

    but getting literally a single drop from 3 weeks of raiding is equally bad

    at this point i dont feel good about getting any item anymore because it just means its 2-3 weeks till the next one, its frustrating and definitely not fun experience

    I have to agree with you. Gearing in this expansion has become a pain and is definitely NOT fun at all.

    I will use an example from last night. I ran 6 mythic plus dungeons. All ranging from +7 to +10. I got one piece of loot out of all of them and it was a item that I already had. And on top of that I am sitting at a 187 weapon that I have been hoping and trying to replace with a iLvL 200 and above for the longest. The gearing in this game sucks all the ass in the world. And 3 pieces of loot per boss for a 20 man raid that has busted their ass to down is NOT fun. Sucks
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    No one's forcing you to rush through 15 m+ a day. But you're forcing me to wait through 10 weeks of the vault - why does everyone have to wait for 10 weeks to be done? What a silly, silly argument.

    I liked being able to be done in 3 weeks. I couldn't care less about how you like to play the game. With last expansion's m+ I had the option to spam m+ like mad and be done within a week while you had the option to... not do that... and be done whenever you wanted to be done. Nowadays I can spam m+ as much as I want and I'm not getting anyfuckingthingatallwhatsoever - but that doesn't matter because you like it and that means I am wrong because your way of playing is obviously better, isn't it?

    For some fucking reason all you people who wanna play the game as fucking slowly as humanly possible take great fucking offense by me not wanting to do that. I don't want to play with you anyways, and you don't want to play with me either, so enjoy your 180 ilvl after 6 weeks if that's what you want and let me have my 220 if that's what I want. Why does it fucking bother you how I play the game? Why does the game have to fucking lock me out of my option and force your preferred way upon me? Because it doesn't negatively affect you - and that makes you think you've got to talk down to people who disagree with you.

    The purpose is that it's none of your business how I want to play the game. The purpose is that you can always choose to play as badly as you want to and still get rewarded for it while I'm getting progressively less and less for playing the hardest content in the game. Play however you fucking want and let me play however the fuck I want. You people are fucking infuriating with your why don't you just play with 150 ilvl and enjoy some pet battles instead of wanting to play the way you've been playing perfectly fine for the last 16 years.

    I hope to god that someone takes away something from you enjoy one day - and that if you even just think about being somewhat affected by that loss of something you liked you have a bunch of smug bellends telling you how worthless your opinions are. The absolute unlimited close-mindedness and unempathetic cold-heartedness you people have towards everyone who doesn't act or behave like you or who disagrees on something as trivial as fucking gear progression speed is absolutely disgusting.
    Havent read anything but you seem to be way too upset
    Infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-12-28 at 07:09 AM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggressive View Post
    I have to agree with you. Gearing in this expansion has become a pain and is definitely NOT fun at all.

    I will use an example from last night. I ran 6 mythic plus dungeons. All ranging from +7 to +10. I got one piece of loot out of all of them and it was a item that I already had. And on top of that I am sitting at a 187 weapon that I have been hoping and trying to replace with a iLvL 200 and above for the longest. The gearing in this game sucks all the ass in the world. And 3 pieces of loot per boss for a 20 man raid that has busted their ass to down is NOT fun. Sucks
    Conquest gives you a 200 weapon pretty easily if you haven't bought other pieces. Doesn't take that long to grind out the points either.

  15. #95
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fohpo View Post
    Conquest gives you a 200 weapon pretty easily if you haven't bought other pieces. Doesn't take that long to grind out the points either.
    then they'll say "pvp was really well received this expansion" or some such tripe
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I dislike losing my raidspot because some nolifer has no career, social life and doesn't even do the basics to stay healthy so he is able to spam M+.
    This just doesn't happen with how gearing is paced now, pretty great i'll have to say.
    Looks like your guild is shit then. Artificially slowing down progression isn't answer to bad guilds.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > SL > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  17. #97
    Bloodsail Admiral Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    then they'll say "pvp was really well received this expansion" or some such tripe
    Effort equals reward. If you want a 200 weapon and it's not dropping, do PVP and complain less. I'm only 181 and the upgrades I've got from M+ haven't been upgrades at all and I couldn't give a shit. PVP is an option for me but it's all the same. Renown and rep will give you 200 gear in time anyway.
    Last edited by Malania; 2020-12-29 at 12:22 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbselle View Post
    Why does everyone has to be3 done in week 1? Whats the purpose?
    If someone wants to gear up fast they should be able to provided they put in the time. The current system seems to be designed to do nothing more than force people to stay subbed, much like every other system introduced in the last few years.

    The people pushing mythic raiding and high keys right now don't have time to get 1 piece of loot per week, it simply isn't viable.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by james2400 View Post
    Ur wrong Nathria is significantly more difficult than any other raid so far.
    I don't think so, the pull count on bosses is low and the gear people killed them with was under-spec. As people approach correct gear levels / exceed gear levels it will only get easier.

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