Riot Games is officialy working on an MMO.

[Hitei]

And what makes people buy those figurines and make those memes? the lore.... the lore buddy... theres a reason dwarves have a meme about their book of grudges all the time, its from the lore.

Lolno. People buy the minis because they look cool and like collecting them or painting them or what not. Not because of lore. The sets that sell well are the front and center easy to understand sets that are also the subject of games, by an overwhelming majority, Space Marines, the thing you need no lore to understand because they are conceptually ubiquitous.

Most people who are buying minis aren't deep diving into books to figure out which has the most interesting backstory, they buy the ones they like the aesthetics of and thing are cool.

The lore channels on youtube have millions of views on their videos... while the tabletop/figurine centric ones are lucky if they get over half a mil.

Warhammer IS known for its lore... you can deny that all you want, but its definitely not false.

You don't realize it, but this is evidence of exactly how wrong you are. The reason that lore channels get lots of views isn't because the lore matters and is what people care about--it's the exact opposite, they get lots of views because people get into a thing not giving a shit about the lore and then don't care enough about the lore to go read a novel or deep dive into wiki articles themselves and would rather speedwatch a youtube video that summarizes lore points so that they know the basics and don't have to invest any significant amount of time in it.

The people who are racking up views on Nobbel87's channel (or god forbid Pyromancer's), are not the people who are really into Warcraft lore and play the games for lore and read all the books--because they already know all that shit and don't need a bullet point list of things they're already aware of. The people watching those channels are people who spam click through quests, are barely aware that WoW has books, and then don't understand what is going on and want someone to explain it in an easy and quick way. Someone who knows warcraft doesn't need "the entire story of warcraft in 40 minutes", the average player who doesn't really care does.

The exact same is true of both warhammer and 40k. 95% of people who clicked on Astartes, or who buy Virmintide, Dawn of War or Space Marine, or have ever used the phrase "blood for the blood god" do not know (or give a shit about knowing) the lore of Warhammer or 40k. They know that it is a thin,g and they probably know that it involves some analog game, or that it has video games and they might know that there are some books for it. People who are into 40k lore are a tiny, specialized niche, even amongst people that fully know what 40k is and have played games or have some physical figures.

[ParanoiD84]

That really does not matter, the world outside of the warhammer fandom is much greater and is thus what defines "what warhammer is known for". Ask anyone about warhammer and the two likeliest answers are "Wait isn't that those weirdly expensive figurines?" or "Haha the Emperor protects! Skulls for the skull throne!" or something along those lines.

I am not a fan of warhammer so naturally i have not bothered with whole novels, however much of its lore can be known through other means. Not always voluntary i might add; the memeing is sometimes quite incessant. ^^'

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Friends, usually, actually.
I've more than a few friends that are into it, as with most games it's more fun with more friends, and since there are (for some) significant costs and efforts involved people get a bit too attached, like an emotional variation of the sunken cost fallacy.

Nothing to indicate noteworthy quality among the lore though, even if it's good for a few laughs.

Also there is plenty of bullshit with millions of views, i suppose i could sift through youtube to prove the point but frankly that's so obvious that there is no burden of proof on me to speak of.

Right so you have not even read a novel to build your own opinion but asking "friends" or random people lol do you do that with everything else too? Still no matter how you put it the lore is very very popular and is only getting more popular because they actually put out great novels and have great lore simple as that.

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OT though there is no doubt this mmo is going to be popular atleast at the start depending on how good the game is. The fan base is massive just compare the season 2022 lol trailer with 138 million views compared to lets say the dragonflight trailer with 2.5 million views just as a example.

I dont play lol and have no interest in it but the animated show Arcane is one of the best i have seen so there is alot of passion going into the ip.

But we will see i will try it and still play other games like wow.

[Lord Kragan]

You can make a story focused on a segment of the universe. An mmo must cover... well, either it all or a large part. Then you can see the cracks. Plus, arcane wasn't written by lol's writting staff, that can't be chalked to them.

[Witchblade77]

You can make a story focused on a segment of the universe. An mmo must cover... well, either it all or a large part. Then you can see the cracks. Plus, arcane wasn't written by lol's writting staff, that can't be chalked to them.

writer for the series

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/w...hips%27_Sheehy

co creators and executive producers

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/w...raeco%27_Linke
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/w...ribbles%27_Yee


full credit where credit is due, Fortiche did amazing job animating, but yeah, it was written by people working on LoL narratives. it used to have prefunctory stories at best, but its gotten completely reworked around 2014 and has been a lot more cohesive and expansive. so... there's that.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Where I live, when people say Warhammer, they're talking about the tabletop wargaming scene and painting grotesque models. Some nerds know about the RTS videogame but even then that's pretty obscure. If you start talking about Eisenhorn or Ciphas Cain or Horus Heresy, chances are nobody is going to know what you are talking about.

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OT though there is no doubt this mmo is going to be popular atleast at the start depending on how good the game is. The fan base is massive just compare the season 2022 lol trailer with 138 million views compared to lets say the dragonflight trailer with 2.5 million views just as a example.

Where is the bulk of LoL's fans concentrated? In Asia? LoL isn't very popular here in the states. If people talk about a MOBA then they usually bring up DOTA.

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I don't see the LoL MMO reaching WoW levels of popularity, at least not here. WoW's massive explosion of popularity was facilitated by the normie corporate media. WoW was the last gasp of an era in which there was a monolothic corporate infrastructure that could direct everybody's attention to this one thing and continue delivering to meet demand. We probably won't see an explosion in popularity like WoW again, all pervading cultural phenomena known to everyone. Today, people's options are too diversified to catch everybody's attention.

The LoL MMO might become FFXIV sized (2 million subs) but it's not going to get 12 million people paying $15 a month.

[Swnem]

Ghostcrawler teased something on twitter a couple days ago:
https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Extremely vague...but...is something i guess

That is a bad sign to me. They want to make a mediocre game ala WoW, except WoW was great at the time it launched. MMORPG's have evolved in the last 2 decades. They are much more than just the "multiplayer mode".
The fact he already only calls it an "MMO" raises immediate questions.

[Edge-]

That is a bad sign to me. They want to make a mediocre game ala WoW, except WoW was great at the time it launched.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion off an intentionally vague Twitter post about wanting social connections to be a part of a MMO?

MMORPG's have evolved in the last 2 decades. They are much more than just the "multiplayer mode".

Yes, they've gotten extremely friendly to solo play with little to no actual grouping required. I don't say that as a criticism personally, I am more of a solo player so it works just fine for me. But unarguably, a big part of the whole MMO bit of modern MMO's has been chipped away and we're mostly just all doing our own thing - because that's what many wanted and that's what designers have delivered.

The fact he already only calls it an "MMO" raises immediate questions.

Why? He's leading development on Riot Games "unannounced" MMORPG title, which they're hiring for still. He's specifically talking about the MMO part of MMO's in his tweet. What questions does it raise?

[PenguinChan]

That is a bad sign to me. They want to make a mediocre game ala WoW, except WoW was great at the time it launched. MMORPG's have evolved in the last 2 decades. They are much more than just the "multiplayer mode".
The fact he already only calls it an "MMO" raises immediate questions.

He's talked about the holy trinity, typical classes and things like fishing and such. It's an MMORPG - he probably just says MMO until the actual game itself is fully revealed - or that they don't consider it a full RPG. Which is possible - but it's definitely going to be something very familiar.

The LoL MMO might become FFXIV sized (2 million subs) but it's not going to get 12 million people paying $15 a month.

If it's any good, it'll be F2P and surpass 12 million and become more popular than WoW. Welcome to Riot's freemium juggernaut mentality that has served them well so far. They are all about them active, retaining, and gaining players - while also having decent games. S'what they do, and they absolutely do it well.

PS: Valorant is as popular if not more than CS:GO now, and LoL is vastly more popular than DotA 2 - not that either respective game is unpopular by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, considering a lot players in either community in whatever game know about their opposing game's name - it's really not a competition between the people who play it - more-so who outside of the games want to play.

And LoL beats DotA 2 by a wide gap forever now, this isn't even counting how Wild Rift (Or the spin off titles) makes that difference even larger. Valorant will surpass CS:GO in ludicrous bounds once it hits mobile too - let alone console, whenever they release either of these versions - unless VALVE answers and makes a console version at least with CS:GO (WHICH THEY SHOULD).

This'll play out the same way with their MMORPG - if any of their trends in the last 6-8 years have been any indicator.

[Lord Kragan]

At that point you can burn the market then :V.

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writer for the series

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/w...hips%27_Sheehy

co creators and executive producers

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/w...raeco%27_Linke
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/w...ribbles%27_Yee


full credit where credit is due, Fortiche did amazing job animating, but yeah, it was written by people working on LoL narratives. it used to have prefunctory stories at best, but its gotten completely reworked around 2014 and has been a lot more cohesive and expansive. so... there's that.

So, I personally liked more the pre-2014 stuff? I also think the obsession with retcons and retweaks is hurtful. Doesn't help your argunent that the best part of arcane, at leadt for me, was the animation and by a faie margin. Plus the last narrative event, from what little i checked, was a mess.

[Deferionus]

Where I live, when people say Warhammer, they're talking about the tabletop wargaming scene and painting grotesque models. Some nerds know about the RTS videogame but even then that's pretty obscure. If you start talking about Eisenhorn or Ciphas Cain or Horus Heresy, chances are nobody is going to know what you are talking about.

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Where is the bulk of LoL's fans concentrated? In Asia? LoL isn't very popular here in the states. If people talk about a MOBA then they usually bring up DOTA.

Google Trends shows League of Legends is more popular than DOTA in every US state in the past year. League of Legends was the most played game in the world in the past 6 years with 130 million active players. I don't know what current stats are, but its much more popular than DOTA everywhere to my knowledge.

Edit: A google search shows that League presently has 115 million active players as of June 2022. This number does not include their other titles such as Valorant.

[Ausr]

I guess it depends on which style of mmo they go for. Not entirely sure how popular western mmo's are in the east. I know wow has a foothold in china/taiwan.

They have almost 200 million mothly active users and usually have a daily peak player in tens of millions. So, it's safe to say if they can get their LoL players to switch over they could have peak WoW numbers, easily. Whether or not they can sustain that is tbd.

With their terrible fucking community, this should a shit show.

[Witchblade77]

At that point you can burn the market then :V.

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So, I personally liked more the pre-2014 stuff? I also think the obsession with retcons and retweaks is hurtful. Doesn't help your argunent that the best part of arcane, at leadt for me, was the animation and by a faie margin. Plus the last narrative event, from what little i checked, was a mess.

so your are basically backtracking? ok /shrug.

their pre 2014 stuff was on a level of porn scene setups.

post 2014 is actualy cohesive and its not a retcon or retweak, its a full on rework and rewrite. its not always good (the Ruination event, my god did they mishandle THAT narrative) and not to everyone's preference, but that is the point at which world building and creating an actual narrative has become important to them. both things that MMORPG's tend to need to some degree.

[Edge-]

their pre 2014 stuff was on a level of porn scene setups.

I laughed, but this is fairly accurate.

"With that junk in her trunk, she clearly hails from DemASSia, AMIRITE BOIS!"

There's no clean way of trying to fix years of bad lore/background and trying to make it "good". You have to retcon and rewrite a LOT if you're going to start taking it seriously and building something interesting, which means ditching a lot of the half-assed lore that was only done because "I guess we need to have some kind of justification or something."

[Lord Kragan]

so your are basically backtracking? ok /shrug.

their pre 2014 stuff was on a level of porn scene setups.

post 2014 is actualy cohesive and its not a retcon or retweak, its a full on rework and rewrite. its not always good (the Ruination event, my god did they mishandle THAT narrative) and not to everyone's preference, but that is the point at which world building and creating an actual narrative has become important to them. both things that MMORPG's tend to need to some degree.

"It is not a retcon, it is a retcon!" I guess i must thank you for agreeing with me?

You can affirm it is more cohesive but lol is still a mish mosh of random stuff. Now just even blander and more generic, quite a feat.

[vizzle]

Seeing the name ghostcrawler.. i can say that game will fail.

Ghostcrawler was Lead Systems Designer at WoW during WoW's most successful period, and he's Head of Creative Development for the studio that can easily be considered the new Blizzard in terms of quality and culture. Valorant is a mega hit and LoL is LoL.

Pretty sure his influence is a lot better than you believe.

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Google Trends shows League of Legends is more popular than DOTA in every US state in the past year. League of Legends was the most played game in the world in the past 6 years with 130 million active players. I don't know what current stats are, but its much more popular than DOTA everywhere to my knowledge.

Edit: A google search shows that League presently has 115 million active players as of June 2022. This number does not include their other titles such as Valorant.

It's crazy how little some MMO players know about the general gaming environment. Just some kind of MMO-flavored tunnel vision that prevents them from knowing what else is going on out there. And I remember when I played WoW, I automatically "tuned" out everything else as well. Just something very particular to MMO addiction.

[Lord Kragan]

Ghostcrawler was Lead Systems Designer at WoW during WoW's most successful period, and he's Head of Creative Development for the studio that can easily be considered the new Blizzard in terms of quality and culture. Valorant is a mega hit and LoL is LoL.

Pretty sure his influence is a lot better than you believe.

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It's crazy how little some MMO players know about the general gaming environment. Just some kind of MMO-flavored tunnel vision that prevents them from knowing what else is going on out there. And I remember when I played WoW, I automatically "tuned" out everything else as well. Just something very particular to MMO addiction.

Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.

[Somic]

Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.

I don’t even need to read the wiki on this one but he joined before 2009. I remember him specifically talking on forums discussing changes on the beta for wotlk. He was the first blue post response I ever personally got which is why I remember.

He had a massive influence on wotlk.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.

As per his LinkedIn he joined Feb 2008 so that’s plenty of time to get up to speed and contribute to wrath.

Lead Systems Designer, World of Warcraft
Blizzard Entertainment
Feb 2008 - Dec 20135 years 11 months
Irvine, CA
Led about half of the World of Warcraft design team. Oversaw class, item, profession, combat, PvP, encounter, UI and major feature design. Shipped 3 expansions and contributed to 2 others.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-str...ppYZ6kEcCU8435

[Biglog]

GC might have also done some work on AoE3, but he was primarily one of the main wow leads until he went to Riot. But yes many of the wotlk changes were really where he made his mark.

Riot actually has the resources to make it decent. We'll see. Many have tried, few have succeeded.

[vizzle]

Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.

As others have pointed out, GC's influence was long before Cata. He's a very successful game designer, proven at both Blizzard and Riot; his involvement in a game is a good thing, and WoW players pretending otherwise are just being silly. End of story.