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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I don't see the LoL MMO reaching WoW levels of popularity, at least not here. WoW's massive explosion of popularity was facilitated by the normie corporate media. WoW was the last gasp of an era in which there was a monolothic corporate infrastructure that could direct everybody's attention to this one thing and continue delivering to meet demand. We probably won't see an explosion in popularity like WoW again, all pervading cultural phenomena known to everyone. Today, people's options are too diversified to catch everybody's attention.

    The LoL MMO might become FFXIV sized (2 million subs) but it's not going to get 12 million people paying $15 a month.
    I guess it depends on which style of mmo they go for. Not entirely sure how popular western mmo's are in the east. I know wow has a foothold in china/taiwan.

    They have almost 200 million mothly active users and usually have a daily peak player in tens of millions. So, it's safe to say if they can get their LoL players to switch over they could have peak WoW numbers, easily. Whether or not they can sustain that is tbd.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Where I live, when people say Warhammer, they're talking about the tabletop wargaming scene and painting grotesque models. Some nerds know about the RTS videogame but even then that's pretty obscure. If you start talking about Eisenhorn or Ciphas Cain or Horus Heresy, chances are nobody is going to know what you are talking about.

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    Where is the bulk of LoL's fans concentrated? In Asia? LoL isn't very popular here in the states. If people talk about a MOBA then they usually bring up DOTA.


    Google Trends shows League of Legends is more popular than DOTA in every US state in the past year. League of Legends was the most played game in the world in the past 6 years with 130 million active players. I don't know what current stats are, but its much more popular than DOTA everywhere to my knowledge.

    Edit: A google search shows that League presently has 115 million active players as of June 2022. This number does not include their other titles such as Valorant.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    I guess it depends on which style of mmo they go for. Not entirely sure how popular western mmo's are in the east. I know wow has a foothold in china/taiwan.

    They have almost 200 million mothly active users and usually have a daily peak player in tens of millions. So, it's safe to say if they can get their LoL players to switch over they could have peak WoW numbers, easily. Whether or not they can sustain that is tbd.
    With their terrible fucking community, this should a shit show.
    Just don't reply to me. Please. If you can help it.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Kragan View Post
    At that point you can burn the market then :V.

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    So, I personally liked more the pre-2014 stuff? I also think the obsession with retcons and retweaks is hurtful. Doesn't help your argunent that the best part of arcane, at leadt for me, was the animation and by a faie margin. Plus the last narrative event, from what little i checked, was a mess.
    so your are basically backtracking? ok /shrug.

    their pre 2014 stuff was on a level of porn scene setups.

    post 2014 is actualy cohesive and its not a retcon or retweak, its a full on rework and rewrite. its not always good (the Ruination event, my god did they mishandle THAT narrative) and not to everyone's preference, but that is the point at which world building and creating an actual narrative has become important to them. both things that MMORPG's tend to need to some degree.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    their pre 2014 stuff was on a level of porn scene setups.
    I laughed, but this is fairly accurate.

    "With that junk in her trunk, she clearly hails from DemASSia, AMIRITE BOIS!"

    There's no clean way of trying to fix years of bad lore/background and trying to make it "good". You have to retcon and rewrite a LOT if you're going to start taking it seriously and building something interesting, which means ditching a lot of the half-assed lore that was only done because "I guess we need to have some kind of justification or something."

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    so your are basically backtracking? ok /shrug.

    their pre 2014 stuff was on a level of porn scene setups.

    post 2014 is actualy cohesive and its not a retcon or retweak, its a full on rework and rewrite. its not always good (the Ruination event, my god did they mishandle THAT narrative) and not to everyone's preference, but that is the point at which world building and creating an actual narrative has become important to them. both things that MMORPG's tend to need to some degree.
    "It is not a retcon, it is a retcon!" I guess i must thank you for agreeing with me?

    You can affirm it is more cohesive but lol is still a mish mosh of random stuff. Now just even blander and more generic, quite a feat.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlechamp View Post
    Seeing the name ghostcrawler.. i can say that game will fail.
    Ghostcrawler was Lead Systems Designer at WoW during WoW's most successful period, and he's Head of Creative Development for the studio that can easily be considered the new Blizzard in terms of quality and culture. Valorant is a mega hit and LoL is LoL.

    Pretty sure his influence is a lot better than you believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    Google Trends shows League of Legends is more popular than DOTA in every US state in the past year. League of Legends was the most played game in the world in the past 6 years with 130 million active players. I don't know what current stats are, but its much more popular than DOTA everywhere to my knowledge.

    Edit: A google search shows that League presently has 115 million active players as of June 2022. This number does not include their other titles such as Valorant.
    It's crazy how little some MMO players know about the general gaming environment. Just some kind of MMO-flavored tunnel vision that prevents them from knowing what else is going on out there. And I remember when I played WoW, I automatically "tuned" out everything else as well. Just something very particular to MMO addiction.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Ghostcrawler was Lead Systems Designer at WoW during WoW's most successful period, and he's Head of Creative Development for the studio that can easily be considered the new Blizzard in terms of quality and culture. Valorant is a mega hit and LoL is LoL.

    Pretty sure his influence is a lot better than you believe.

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    It's crazy how little some MMO players know about the general gaming environment. Just some kind of MMO-flavored tunnel vision that prevents them from knowing what else is going on out there. And I remember when I played WoW, I automatically "tuned" out everything else as well. Just something very particular to MMO addiction.

    Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Kragan View Post
    Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.
    I don’t even need to read the wiki on this one but he joined before 2009. I remember him specifically talking on forums discussing changes on the beta for wotlk. He was the first blue post response I ever personally got which is why I remember.

    He had a massive influence on wotlk.

  10. #370
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Kragan View Post
    Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.
    As per his LinkedIn he joined Feb 2008 so that’s plenty of time to get up to speed and contribute to wrath.

    Lead Systems Designer, World of Warcraft
    Blizzard Entertainment
    Feb 2008 - Dec 20135 years 11 months
    Irvine, CA
    Led about half of the World of Warcraft design team. Oversaw class, item, profession, combat, PvP, encounter, UI and major feature design. Shipped 3 expansions and contributed to 2 others.
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-str...ppYZ6kEcCU8435
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #371
    GC might have also done some work on AoE3, but he was primarily one of the main wow leads until he went to Riot. But yes many of the wotlk changes were really where he made his mark.

    Riot actually has the resources to make it decent. We'll see. Many have tried, few have succeeded.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Kragan View Post
    Checking the name. He apparently joined wow in 2009? From 1999 to 2008 he apparently, going by the wikis worked on age of empires... meaning he worked on AoE3, which was a fairly controversial title back in the day. Joining in 2009 that means the soonest his influence can be felt is cataclysm, which in itself is seen as flawed.
    As others have pointed out, GC's influence was long before Cata. He's a very successful game designer, proven at both Blizzard and Riot; his involvement in a game is a good thing, and WoW players pretending otherwise are just being silly. End of story.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  13. #373
    I bet it will be something like Lost Fart or Grinding impact.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    I bet it will be something like Lost Fart or Grinding impact.
    Those are two completely different games lol I’m not really sure what you mean.

    I really really hope they make it a third person open world game with skill shot based combat tbh. I really really hope it’s not like lost ark where it’s a top down view. I thought I really liked the top down view of lost ark but something about that view sort of ruins the atmosphere of the world.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    does riot know an mmo won't work with spaghetti code?
    Have you ever in your life seen an MMO?
    Speghetti code is mandatory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    Have you ever in your life seen an MMO?
    Speghetti code is mandatory.
    There are persistent complaints about the LoL launcher IIRC that folks attribute to very old "spaghetti code", no clue how valid those criticisms are or not.

    But I imagine given that Riot is now an established company with a lot of money to play around with and has a lot more experienced developers working there that this won't be as major of an issue. They have the resources and skills to build a solid codebase for new titles.

    Though sorta as you say, MMO's are incredibly complex. I'll once again share an older article on why a lot of space companies have, and still do, recruit software engineers from the gaming industry, especially engineers with experience working on MMO's.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3031512/...g-talent-at-e3

    “We actually hire a lot of our best software engineers out of the gaming industry,” said SpaceX CEO Elon Musk, when Fast Company posed this question during the May 29 Dragon V2 unveiling. “In gaming there’s a lot of smart engineering talent doing really complex things. [Compared to] a lot of the algorithms involved in massive multiplayer online games…a docking sequence [between spacecraft] is actually relatively straightforward. So I’d encourage people in the gaming industry to think about creating the next generation of spacecraft and rockets.”

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    There are persistent complaints about the LoL launcher IIRC that folks attribute to very old "spaghetti code", no clue how valid those criticisms are or not.

    But I imagine given that Riot is now an established company with a lot of money to play around with and has a lot more experienced developers working there that this won't be as major of an issue. They have the resources and skills to build a solid codebase for new titles.

    Though sorta as you say, MMO's are incredibly complex. I'll once again share an older article on why a lot of space companies have, and still do, recruit software engineers from the gaming industry, especially engineers with experience working on MMO's.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3031512/...g-talent-at-e3
    I’ve played league since 2010 (I literally bought it in a box) and people have always complained about the launcher. The issue with the launcher is that it always lags and is unresponsive but it is no worse than other games I have played. And if the biggest ‘spaghetti code’ complaint is that the launcher lags then you’re doing pretty good for a game tbh.

    And honestly the lagging isn’t even really that common, it’s just league players in general have the patience of a 4 year old at Disney land. If something goes wrong in one game out of the 100 they play in a week then they aren’t going to shut up about it for 3 months.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    As others have pointed out, GC's influence was long before Cata. He's a very successful game designer, proven at both Blizzard and Riot; his involvement in a game is a good thing, and WoW players pretending otherwise are just being silly. End of story.
    His involvement is neutral. He has been both good and bad at game design. That is the actual end of story.

    Riot has already lost the plot though, by thinking that what the current MMO market needs is a game that focuses on community and multiplayer, eschewing singleplayer capability. That has not been what the market is looking for the better part of a decade.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    His involvement is neutral. He has been both good and bad at game design. That is the actual end of story.

    Riot has already lost the plot though, by thinking that what the current MMO market needs is a game that focuses on community and multiplayer, eschewing singleplayer capability. That has not been what the market is looking for the better part of a decade.
    Look as someone who played a ret Paladin in wotlk, he was overall a massive benefit to wow. His class design choices actually made the game fun.

    Was shit broken sometimes? Yes. Did he nerf/buff shit that didn’t need nerf/buffed? Yes. But overall he made the game fun.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Look as someone who played a ret Paladin in wotlk, he was overall a massive benefit to wow. His class design choices actually made the game fun.

    Was shit broken sometimes? Yes. Did he nerf/buff shit that didn’t need nerf/buffed? Yes. But overall he made the game fun.
    Yeah, one spec on one class in one expansion being enjoyable to one person is not a good marker of whether a dev was a benefit or detriment. That you liked a single design decision he maybe put some input into doesn't mean "overall he made the game fun".

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