Riot Games is officialy working on an MMO.

[JacobusRex]

I'm interested, even a little excited to see what this is, but I don't hold my breath anymore since it's all about copious microtransactions, no-accountability subscriptions or worst of all; a combination of those two. Not the least of which all I see is arguing and negativity about it here and elsewhere over the stupid shit like retcons and rewrites, casual vs try-hard, etc etc. The only negativity I would see as worth my time is towards MTX. If they don't have MTX as they shouldn't, but a subscription, at least we can hold them to it and "work is hard" is no excuse. If they do have MTX as I'm sure they will, and it's "free to play" it'll be a hollow, uninspired costume contest with gameplay mechanics. If it has a subscription AND MTX, it'll be just like WoW and a vast majority of players will NOT enjoy it after the honeymoon phase.

The problem is, can Greg Street and his team create a game the few intelligent players who know better will want to play because it's all there for a monthly sub fee and that keeps the game going on more than drip-feed? No, because Riot is garbage. So really it comes down to is the gameplay fun enough to keep me playing? That remains to be seen. The background, the mythos, ethos and pathos of the game matter but are all malleable. The gameplay is far less malleable because what is fun for most people is the right pacing, the right complexity and the right flair so that what you do is meaningful, rewarding and engaging.

Apparently according to a YT video the game's environment and future expansion zones are all but done. It's the gameplay and story that they're going to be working on for a while more. That's good, because it might have a shot at being half-way worth the ridiculous mtx and/or sub fee that comes with it.

[Edge-]

Apparently according to a YT video the game's environment and future expansion zones are all but done. It's the gameplay and story that they're going to be working on for a while more. That's good, because it might have a shot at being half-way worth the ridiculous mtx and/or sub fee that comes with it.

X to doubt bigtime given that I don't even believe the game is in full production yet, much less content/feature-complete with pre-production on expansions. The game isn't even officially announced, so whatever the source on this claim is seems very, very suspect.

[JacobusRex]

X to doubt bigtime given that I don't even believe the game is in full production yet, much less content/feature-complete with pre-production on expansions. The game isn't even officially announced, so whatever the source on this claim is seems very, very suspect.

If I may: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ypIpTu3ung 6-8 years ahead maybe it'll be ready, but apparently it might be complete in the lands and such.

[Edge-]

If I may: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ypIpTu3ung 6-8 years ahead maybe it'll be ready, but apparently it might be complete in the lands and such.

He's talking about conceptually: The world of "Runetera" has already been conceptually created. The map, the factions, the zones, key characters etc. all exist by virtue of Riot building it as they built LoL, and then burning it down to build a more coherent and fleshed out world some years back.

I'm skipping through a bit because I don't know this cat and he's annoying, but that's what he's talking about a few minutes in while showing 3D models he made.

He's not talking about, at least so far, how far along creation of the world and that content is. Though I guess he thinks he knows what kinds of quests/side quests will be in the unannounced MMO already and isn't just speculating, which is what he's actually doing?

It seems like more of a "Here's a deep dive into the lore of the Runetera world Riot built and how that may be fleshed out in the MMO, since they're not needing to create all these locations and characters and factions from scratch like a brand-new MMO not based off an existing property would be."

[JacobusRex]

It came off as "the world (in-game) is done". *shrug* maybe not. I'd like to think that he's right and I won't be 40 years old when it first comes out... Also, why is he annoying? I think he's kind of funny, if a bit try-to-be funny... haha

[Edge-]

There was supposed to be the word "social" before "activities," oops.

Well, because wow is the only game i have played that's MMO, except dipping my toes in GW2 and FFXIV.

A game like RuneScape has the Burthorpe games room, which was mini-games but your toon was physical in a room and playing against other humans.

Figured the "social" was implied, but thanks for clarifying.

Generally, there's a MASSIVE amount of "PvE" content beyond raiding that can be social and require some level of teamwork/interaction. Open world dungeons that can't be solo'd, group-oriented puzzles that require multiple people to coordinate for shared goals, tons of smaller scale content with players coordinating in small groups across multiple locations etc. It's not all just "group for a raid/dungeon."

Same goes for PvP, plus all the different flavors of PvPvE content that can be mashed together.

Beyond just PvE/P content there's all kinds of other ways to promote social play. Crafting that requires multiple crafters working together towards shared goals with systems designed to connect them and allow for easy coordination is one example. WoW is even taking a step in that direction with work orders: Which are a more social way of interacting with crafting and the economy than simply having an AH you list stuff on.

GW2, especially later on, has a lot of these "increased social" elements even if folks largely don't chat and simply work together with others under the leadership of a few folks. Lots of big zone-wide meta events requiring teams to coordinate, open world bosses with mechanics requiring players organically work out things like killing multiple bosses within seconds of each other lest they revive etc. I think folks are taking "social" way too literally in what was, again, an intentionally vague tweet : P

- - - Updated - - -

It came off as "the world (in-game) is done". *shrug* maybe not. I'd like to think that he's right and I won't be 40 years old when it first comes out... Also, why is he annoying? I think he's kind of funny, if a bit try-to-be funny... haha

"The world" as in Runetera, is built and evolving. That's all he was talking about. I skipped through most of the video and it was overwhelmingly focused on the lore that Riot has built and telling players about the different races, factions, locations, sub-locations, historical events and their significance etc. All stuff that would normally need to be built from scratch for a brand-new MMO, but all exists to build off of for the Riot MMO.

Again, they just started hiring for the "unannounced" MMO (because it's not officially announced) a few years ago. The game could very well be in full production by now (it's been a few years, even with covid), or that could be starting soonish. Unless you're 35+ it's unlikely you'll be in your 40's when it releases : P

As for why...probably a me thing. I find a lot of YT creators annoying, but the guy definitely knows his stuff when it comes to LoL universe lore.

[Somic]

It came off as "the world (in-game) is done". *shrug* maybe not. I'd like to think that he's right and I won't be 40 years old when it first comes out... Also, why is he annoying? I think he's kind of funny, if a bit try-to-be funny... haha

I mean we obviously have no clue how far they are in production. They could be in internal alpha or they could literally be starting right now for all we know.

But that video def means in terms of story building or at least a guideline for the world. Which is already done, like the video suggests, which does help a ton in terms of design. They already have the idea down and the story down they just need to bring it to life.

Essentially they are in the exact same spot Warcraft was in.

[Edge-]

Essentially they are in the exact same spot Warcraft was in.

Actually, way better given the work they've done intentionally building the world to exist as a shared universe for a host of different types of content (TV shows, music, games in multiple genres etc.) and been able to learn a lot of lessons from other universes/shared universes built in the decades since Blizzard made WoW. They benefit from being able to learn from a lot of the success and mistakes that simply didn't exist back when Blizzard was taking Warcraft into the MMO world.

[Somic]

Actually, way better given the work they've done intentionally building the world to exist as a shared universe for a host of different types of content (TV shows, music, games in multiple genres etc.) and been able to learn a lot of lessons from other universes/shared universes built in the decades since Blizzard made WoW. They benefit from being able to learn from a lot of the success and mistakes that simply didn't exist back when Blizzard was taking Warcraft into the MMO world.

That’s for sure true. They definitely have a lot more doors available to them as well as some guidelines to follow that Warcraft didn’t have. The only thing I’m hoping for is that they go all in on this mmo and actually make it a third person open world type of mmo.

It would be a god damn shame if they have this beautiful story and setting setup for them and they ruin it (imo) by making it a top down lost ark esq type of mmo.

Don’t get me wrong those mmos are fine, but I believe they absolutely demolish any sense of atmosphere.

[Edge-]

That’s for sure true. They definitely have a lot more doors available to them as well as some guidelines to follow that Warcraft didn’t have. The only thing I’m hoping for is that they go all in on this mmo and actually make it a third person open world type of mmo.

It would be a god damn shame if they have this beautiful story and setting setup for them and they ruin it (imo) by making it a top down lost ark esq type of mmo.

Don’t get me wrong those mmos are fine, but I believe they absolutely demolish any sense of atmosphere.

I get that. I don't mind so much if they do isometric or something, but I do prefer a full 3D world generally. I imagine that's what they'll probably go for, though. They don't seem shy about going well outside the LoL comfort zone (turn-based RPG, fighting game, side scrolling game etc.) and given most of GC's MMO experience is in a 3D MMO (and that's where most western MMO's in general tend to go) it stands to reason that it'll likely be designed that way.

[aceperson]

I just told you what you responded to. Are you okay?

Nothing you’re saying makes any sense and I think you know that.

this will be my last response because this is a waste of my time at this point. you said i said lol has spaghetti code. while it's true i think it does considering how some bugs goes years without fixes and then comeback in like a week, i never said lol has spaghetti code... so please go read. words have meaning my dude.

[Somic]

this will be my last response because this is a waste of my time at this point. you said i said lol has spaghetti code. while it's true i think it does considering how some bugs goes years without fixes and then comeback in like a week, i never said lol has spaghetti code... so please go read. words have meaning my dude.

Buddy, I specifically asked you what you meant 5 times. All you said was go back and read what you said. I repeated word for word what you said and asked you what you meant and just said it’s a metaphor or to go back and read again.

I asked you numerous times what your metaphors meant or what you were specifically talking about if it wasn’t the code. So then I narrowed it down to you must have been talking about the code. And now you’re saying this isn’t what you were referring to.

So what you’re telling me now, is that you said nothing. That’s what I’m hearing. You’re just throwing venom from nothing just to throw venom.

[Edge-]

Take it to tells if you would like to continue that line of discussion please, keep the thread on-topic.

[Yriel]

Are you the exact same person you were 10 years ago?

Note he's admitting this is intentionally vague and I'm not sure how you're connecting it to

I don't know if you are trolling to be honest but ok.

So GC says that he considers automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games and seeks to build a community/friends focused game instead and you say i have no proof that he consideres automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games? And what do you think does he mean with community/friends focused game after he was asked about groupfinders? A deep roleplaying experience? GC the old roleplayer!

I don't get it.
Have you actually read the tweet you posted?

[Soikona]

Raiding has always been the least social aspect of games, IMO. It actively makes me hate people and not want to spend another moment around them. At least with queued content, I can just leave with no obligation if it becomes too intolerable and know that I will be quickly replaced so it's no issue for anyone involved. Raiding is the equivalent of a teacher assigning you and three other classmates to a group project.

The most social parts of MMOs I've played have been RP (which you mentioned) and mercantile, i.e. crafting, procuring, and selling various items of interest. I think back to art auctions held by players in SWG and what a fantastic opportunity they were to mingle with the community over a shared interest in the games art, true social events.

I strongly disagree, raiding is the most social part for myself. Playing with people, eventually being friends, and beating a boss together that you were stuck on is very sociable. It sounds like you see players as a tool for your achievement, not as a person. That’s your problem.

[Edge-]

So GC says that he considers automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games and seeks to build a community/friends focused game instead and you say i have no proof that he consideres automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games? And what do you think does he mean with community/friends focused game after he was asked about groupfinders? A deep roleplaying experience? GC the old roleplayer!

No, I'm responding to you directly and your assertion that his basic views haven't changed.

No i don't think his basic views changed. Why would they?

Again, he gave an intentionally vague response to a question that included a mention of group finder.

[VMSmith]

It sounds like you see players as a tool for your achievement, not as a person. That’s your problem.

Not wanting to be an asshole but...

And yet you made that choice anyway.

I never said I think everyone is an asshole. I never said I see people as tools. You folk are projecting your own selves onto others when you do this.

I said I find that raiding with people makes me dislike them. That's because I don't like raiding and the way it causes people to behave. I can have wonderfully lovely interactions with a person while sitting around in guild chat and, once in a raid, not enjoy their company at all. I hate the sense of obligation to people I may not know very well that comes with raiding. It's raiding, not people. Do you get it? I don't find raiding enjoyable nor really sociable. At least, not anymore than the backslapping found in a study group when we get an "A".

In fact, funnily enough, I mentioned in my post some social situations where I absolutely loved being around other people. But neither of you could be bothered to consider that, it seems, in your rush to judge another person as flawed because they don't share your desires. And, in so doing, proved to me yet again why I don't like what raiding does to people. So, thanks for that!

The entire point of my post was not even about my opinions on the joy of raiding ... simply that I found it to be the least sociable activity in the game since it's hyper-focused on performance, not camaraderie.

eta Given that this game will likely be very similar to WoW and be raid-centric, anyway, I imagine I'll probably end up passing on it and stick with STO and, hopefully soon, Palia.

[Somic]

And yet you made that choice anyway.

I never said I think everyone is an asshole. I never said I see people as tools. You folk are projecting your own selves onto others when you do this.

I said I find that raiding with people makes me dislike them. That's because I don't like raiding and the way it causes people to behave. I can have wonderfully lovely interactions with a person while sitting around in guild chat and, once in a raid, not enjoy their company at all. I hate the sense of obligation to people I may not know very well that comes with raiding. It's raiding, not people. Do you get it? I don't find raiding enjoyable nor really sociable. At least, not anymore than the backslapping found in a study group when we get an "A".

In fact, funnily enough, I mentioned in my post some social situations where I absolutely loved being around other people. But neither of you could be bothered to consider that, it seems, in your rush to judge another person as flawed because they don't share your desires. And, in so doing, proved to me yet again why I don't like what raiding does to people. So, thanks for that!

The entire point of my post was not even about my opinions on the joy of raiding ... simply that I found it to be the least sociable activity in the game since it's hyper-focused on performance, not camaraderie.

eta Given that this game will likely be very similar to WoW and be raid-centric, anyway, I imagine I'll probably end up passing on it and stick with STO and, hopefully soon, Palia.

I agree with what you’re saying to a certain extent. Raiding has never been a ‘social’ experience for me, even in a guild. There are a couple of scenarios that play out.

A. You’re in a guild doing progression: most people sit silently while just discussing call outs and strats. Hoping to Christ there’s no awkwardness with someone wiping the raid or loot drama

B. You’re in a guild on farm: people are more relaxed but there’s so many people in coms at once you either hear nothing but audio rape or complete silence. Either way you’re only talking to the people you actually play with outside of raid anyway

C. You’re in a pug and everything above is amplified 10 fold.

To me, in terms of being social with friends, battlegrounds and arenas or world pvp or questing or dungeons have always been the most social.

In terms of social with the community and people you don’t know then dungeons, world objectives, world pvp, and group quests or chain quests have always been the most social.

[VMSmith]

Raiding has never been a ‘social’ experience for me, even in a guild. There are a couple of scenarios that play out.

A. You’re in a guild doing progression: most people sit silently while just discussing call outs and strats. Hoping to Christ there’s no awkwardness with someone wiping the raid or loot drama

B. You’re in a guild on farm: people are more relaxed but there’s so many people in coms at once you either hear nothing but audio rape or complete silence. Either way you’re only talking to the people you actually play with outside of raid anyway

C. You’re in a pug and everything above is amplified 10 fold.

Yes, you get exactly what I'm saying.

Maybe you need a raidgroup that is less competetive and more towards a good time. Mine is. We go into Mythic but never clear. That is ok for me.

I have a hell of a lot of fun raiding and the banter between progress boss fights is alway amazingly fun.

Yes, this does happen. I never said raiding was completely anti-social, only that I find it less social. And the reality is that your experience is not what I imagine the majority of people's experience of raiding to be. A vanishingly small number of raid groups are focused on fucking around and having a good time whether bosses die or not. Most people expect progress and focus on that progress to the detriment of social interaction.

Even in the most relaxed raiding experience I've ever had in my guild there were still expectations and a focus on performance. The bulk of the social interaction was had between the people that interacted outside of the raid normally already, just as Somic describes above.

Raiding IS social. One of the most communication heavy parts of the game. If i have fun or you don't has no influence on it.

What is STO?^^

Again, it's not completely anti-social, it's only IMO the least social experience in the game when compared to anything else. Even solo questing is more social I've found simply because that's where I've typically met new people as we bump into each other and discover a shared goal. It's how I've found every guild worth a damn I've ever been in.

STO is Star Trek Online. No raiding. Task Force Operations (dungeons) are queued for at most levels of difficulty and are just plain fun and reward varying levels of "marks", depending on difficulty level. There's no competition in the game, other than maybe friends trying to out-dps each other. Most people just have fun in a Star Trek universe and chit chat about whatever with each other or roleplay or dress up. DPS is an afterthought and the PvP community is so tiny you wouldn't even know it exists in the game. It's just about having fun and living in a different world, rather than performance and overcoming challenges and all the shit WoW treats as vital ... and, consequently, it's vastly more social than WoW has ever been.

[Edge-]

STO is Star Trek Online. No raiding. Task Force Operations (dungeons) are queued for at most levels of difficulty and are just plain fun and reward varying levels of "marks", depending on difficulty level. There's no competition in the game, other than maybe friends trying to out-dps each other. Most people just have fun in a Star Trek universe and chit chat about whatever with each other or roleplay or dress up. DPS is an afterthought and the PvP community is so tiny you wouldn't even know it exists in the game. It's just about having fun and living in a different world, rather than performance and overcoming challenges and all the shit WoW treats as vital ... and, consequently, it's vastly more social than WoW has ever been.

Big ups on this. I casually play and most of STO is legit just single player in terms of content and how they handle "episodes" (like the show!).

But you see a LOT of socializing at social hubs like Risa and KDF/Federation HQ and DS9 and stuff. Lots of space barbie, lots of folks showing off their cool ships, memorials for the passing of actors etc.