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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    There was supposed to be the word "social" before "activities," oops.

    Well, because wow is the only game i have played that's MMO, except dipping my toes in GW2 and FFXIV.

    A game like RuneScape has the Burthorpe games room, which was mini-games but your toon was physical in a room and playing against other humans.
    Figured the "social" was implied, but thanks for clarifying.

    Generally, there's a MASSIVE amount of "PvE" content beyond raiding that can be social and require some level of teamwork/interaction. Open world dungeons that can't be solo'd, group-oriented puzzles that require multiple people to coordinate for shared goals, tons of smaller scale content with players coordinating in small groups across multiple locations etc. It's not all just "group for a raid/dungeon."

    Same goes for PvP, plus all the different flavors of PvPvE content that can be mashed together.

    Beyond just PvE/P content there's all kinds of other ways to promote social play. Crafting that requires multiple crafters working together towards shared goals with systems designed to connect them and allow for easy coordination is one example. WoW is even taking a step in that direction with work orders: Which are a more social way of interacting with crafting and the economy than simply having an AH you list stuff on.

    GW2, especially later on, has a lot of these "increased social" elements even if folks largely don't chat and simply work together with others under the leadership of a few folks. Lots of big zone-wide meta events requiring teams to coordinate, open world bosses with mechanics requiring players organically work out things like killing multiple bosses within seconds of each other lest they revive etc. I think folks are taking "social" way too literally in what was, again, an intentionally vague tweet : P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    It came off as "the world (in-game) is done". *shrug* maybe not. I'd like to think that he's right and I won't be 40 years old when it first comes out... Also, why is he annoying? I think he's kind of funny, if a bit try-to-be funny... haha
    "The world" as in Runetera, is built and evolving. That's all he was talking about. I skipped through most of the video and it was overwhelmingly focused on the lore that Riot has built and telling players about the different races, factions, locations, sub-locations, historical events and their significance etc. All stuff that would normally need to be built from scratch for a brand-new MMO, but all exists to build off of for the Riot MMO.

    Again, they just started hiring for the "unannounced" MMO (because it's not officially announced) a few years ago. The game could very well be in full production by now (it's been a few years, even with covid), or that could be starting soonish. Unless you're 35+ it's unlikely you'll be in your 40's when it releases : P

    As for why...probably a me thing. I find a lot of YT creators annoying, but the guy definitely knows his stuff when it comes to LoL universe lore.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by JacobusRex View Post
    It came off as "the world (in-game) is done". *shrug* maybe not. I'd like to think that he's right and I won't be 40 years old when it first comes out... Also, why is he annoying? I think he's kind of funny, if a bit try-to-be funny... haha
    I mean we obviously have no clue how far they are in production. They could be in internal alpha or they could literally be starting right now for all we know.

    But that video def means in terms of story building or at least a guideline for the world. Which is already done, like the video suggests, which does help a ton in terms of design. They already have the idea down and the story down they just need to bring it to life.

    Essentially they are in the exact same spot Warcraft was in.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Essentially they are in the exact same spot Warcraft was in.
    Actually, way better given the work they've done intentionally building the world to exist as a shared universe for a host of different types of content (TV shows, music, games in multiple genres etc.) and been able to learn a lot of lessons from other universes/shared universes built in the decades since Blizzard made WoW. They benefit from being able to learn from a lot of the success and mistakes that simply didn't exist back when Blizzard was taking Warcraft into the MMO world.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Actually, way better given the work they've done intentionally building the world to exist as a shared universe for a host of different types of content (TV shows, music, games in multiple genres etc.) and been able to learn a lot of lessons from other universes/shared universes built in the decades since Blizzard made WoW. They benefit from being able to learn from a lot of the success and mistakes that simply didn't exist back when Blizzard was taking Warcraft into the MMO world.
    That’s for sure true. They definitely have a lot more doors available to them as well as some guidelines to follow that Warcraft didn’t have. The only thing I’m hoping for is that they go all in on this mmo and actually make it a third person open world type of mmo.

    It would be a god damn shame if they have this beautiful story and setting setup for them and they ruin it (imo) by making it a top down lost ark esq type of mmo.

    Don’t get me wrong those mmos are fine, but I believe they absolutely demolish any sense of atmosphere.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    That’s for sure true. They definitely have a lot more doors available to them as well as some guidelines to follow that Warcraft didn’t have. The only thing I’m hoping for is that they go all in on this mmo and actually make it a third person open world type of mmo.

    It would be a god damn shame if they have this beautiful story and setting setup for them and they ruin it (imo) by making it a top down lost ark esq type of mmo.

    Don’t get me wrong those mmos are fine, but I believe they absolutely demolish any sense of atmosphere.
    I get that. I don't mind so much if they do isometric or something, but I do prefer a full 3D world generally. I imagine that's what they'll probably go for, though. They don't seem shy about going well outside the LoL comfort zone (turn-based RPG, fighting game, side scrolling game etc.) and given most of GC's MMO experience is in a 3D MMO (and that's where most western MMO's in general tend to go) it stands to reason that it'll likely be designed that way.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I just told you what you responded to. Are you okay?

    Nothing you’re saying makes any sense and I think you know that.
    this will be my last response because this is a waste of my time at this point. you said i said lol has spaghetti code. while it's true i think it does considering how some bugs goes years without fixes and then comeback in like a week, i never said lol has spaghetti code... so please go read. words have meaning my dude.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    this will be my last response because this is a waste of my time at this point. you said i said lol has spaghetti code. while it's true i think it does considering how some bugs goes years without fixes and then comeback in like a week, i never said lol has spaghetti code... so please go read. words have meaning my dude.
    Buddy, I specifically asked you what you meant 5 times. All you said was go back and read what you said. I repeated word for word what you said and asked you what you meant and just said it’s a metaphor or to go back and read again.

    I asked you numerous times what your metaphors meant or what you were specifically talking about if it wasn’t the code. So then I narrowed it down to you must have been talking about the code. And now you’re saying this isn’t what you were referring to.

    So what you’re telling me now, is that you said nothing. That’s what I’m hearing. You’re just throwing venom from nothing just to throw venom.

  8. #428
    Take it to tells if you would like to continue that line of discussion please, keep the thread on-topic.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Are you the exact same person you were 10 years ago?

    Note he's admitting this is intentionally vague and I'm not sure how you're connecting it to
    I don't know if you are trolling to be honest but ok.

    So GC says that he considers automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games and seeks to build a community/friends focused game instead and you say i have no proof that he consideres automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games? And what do you think does he mean with community/friends focused game after he was asked about groupfinders? A deep roleplaying experience? GC the old roleplayer!

    I don't get it.
    Have you actually read the tweet you posted?

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Raiding has always been the least social aspect of games, IMO. It actively makes me hate people and not want to spend another moment around them. At least with queued content, I can just leave with no obligation if it becomes too intolerable and know that I will be quickly replaced so it's no issue for anyone involved. Raiding is the equivalent of a teacher assigning you and three other classmates to a group project.

    The most social parts of MMOs I've played have been RP (which you mentioned) and mercantile, i.e. crafting, procuring, and selling various items of interest. I think back to art auctions held by players in SWG and what a fantastic opportunity they were to mingle with the community over a shared interest in the games art, true social events.
    I strongly disagree, raiding is the most social part for myself. Playing with people, eventually being friends, and beating a boss together that you were stuck on is very sociable. It sounds like you see players as a tool for your achievement, not as a person. That’s your problem.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Raiding has always been the least social aspect of games, IMO. It actively makes me hate people and not want to spend another moment around them. At least with queued content, I can just leave with no obligation if it becomes too intolerable and know that I will be quickly replaced so it's no issue for anyone involved. Raiding is the equivalent of a teacher assigning you and three other classmates to a group project.

    The most social parts of MMOs I've played have been RP (which you mentioned) and mercantile, i.e. crafting, procuring, and selling various items of interest. I think back to art auctions held by players in SWG and what a fantastic opportunity they were to mingle with the community over a shared interest in the games art, true social events.
    Well... that is why i always look for guilds of people i like to play with. I am in the same guild now for years and even can come back after a year break from wow without problem.
    Not wanting to be an asshole but... "if everyone you meet is an asshole..."

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    So GC says that he considers automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games and seeks to build a community/friends focused game instead and you say i have no proof that he consideres automatic group finders akin to singleplayer games? And what do you think does he mean with community/friends focused game after he was asked about groupfinders? A deep roleplaying experience? GC the old roleplayer!
    No, I'm responding to you directly and your assertion that his basic views haven't changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    No i don't think his basic views changed. Why would they?
    Again, he gave an intentionally vague response to a question that included a mention of group finder.

  13. #433
    Stood in the Fire VMSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona
    It sounds like you see players as a tool for your achievement, not as a person. That’s your problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Not wanting to be an asshole but...
    And yet you made that choice anyway.

    I never said I think everyone is an asshole. I never said I see people as tools. You folk are projecting your own selves onto others when you do this.

    I said I find that raiding with people makes me dislike them. That's because I don't like raiding and the way it causes people to behave. I can have wonderfully lovely interactions with a person while sitting around in guild chat and, once in a raid, not enjoy their company at all. I hate the sense of obligation to people I may not know very well that comes with raiding. It's raiding, not people. Do you get it? I don't find raiding enjoyable nor really sociable. At least, not anymore than the backslapping found in a study group when we get an "A".

    In fact, funnily enough, I mentioned in my post some social situations where I absolutely loved being around other people. But neither of you could be bothered to consider that, it seems, in your rush to judge another person as flawed because they don't share your desires. And, in so doing, proved to me yet again why I don't like what raiding does to people. So, thanks for that!

    The entire point of my post was not even about my opinions on the joy of raiding ... simply that I found it to be the least sociable activity in the game since it's hyper-focused on performance, not camaraderie.

    eta Given that this game will likely be very similar to WoW and be raid-centric, anyway, I imagine I'll probably end up passing on it and stick with STO and, hopefully soon, Palia.
    Last edited by VMSmith; 2022-08-19 at 04:24 PM.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    And yet you made that choice anyway.

    I never said I think everyone is an asshole. I never said I see people as tools. You folk are projecting your own selves onto others when you do this.

    I said I find that raiding with people makes me dislike them. That's because I don't like raiding and the way it causes people to behave. I can have wonderfully lovely interactions with a person while sitting around in guild chat and, once in a raid, not enjoy their company at all. I hate the sense of obligation to people I may not know very well that comes with raiding. It's raiding, not people. Do you get it? I don't find raiding enjoyable nor really sociable. At least, not anymore than the backslapping found in a study group when we get an "A".

    In fact, funnily enough, I mentioned in my post some social situations where I absolutely loved being around other people. But neither of you could be bothered to consider that, it seems, in your rush to judge another person as flawed because they don't share your desires. And, in so doing, proved to me yet again why I don't like what raiding does to people. So, thanks for that!

    The entire point of my post was not even about my opinions on the joy of raiding ... simply that I found it to be the least sociable activity in the game since it's hyper-focused on performance, not camaraderie.

    eta Given that this game will likely be very similar to WoW and be raid-centric, anyway, I imagine I'll probably end up passing on it and stick with STO and, hopefully soon, Palia.
    I agree with what you’re saying to a certain extent. Raiding has never been a ‘social’ experience for me, even in a guild. There are a couple of scenarios that play out.

    A. You’re in a guild doing progression: most people sit silently while just discussing call outs and strats. Hoping to Christ there’s no awkwardness with someone wiping the raid or loot drama

    B. You’re in a guild on farm: people are more relaxed but there’s so many people in coms at once you either hear nothing but audio rape or complete silence. Either way you’re only talking to the people you actually play with outside of raid anyway

    C. You’re in a pug and everything above is amplified 10 fold.

    To me, in terms of being social with friends, battlegrounds and arenas or world pvp or questing or dungeons have always been the most social.

    In terms of social with the community and people you don’t know then dungeons, world objectives, world pvp, and group quests or chain quests have always been the most social.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    And yet you made that choice anyway.

    I never said I think everyone is an asshole. I never said I see people as tools. You folk are projecting your own selves onto others when you do this.

    I said I find that raiding with people makes me dislike them. That's because I don't like raiding and the way it causes people to behave. I can have wonderfully lovely interactions with a person while sitting around in guild chat and, once in a raid, not enjoy their company at all. I hate the sense of obligation to people I may not know very well that comes with raiding. It's raiding, not people. Do you get it? I don't find raiding enjoyable nor really sociable. At least, not anymore than the backslapping found in a study group when we get an "A".

    In fact, funnily enough, I mentioned in my post some social situations where I absolutely loved being around other people. But neither of you could be bothered to consider that, it seems, in your rush to judge another person as flawed because they don't share your desires. And, in so doing, proved to me yet again why I don't like what raiding does to people. So, thanks for that!

    The entire point of my post was not even about my opinions on the joy of raiding ... simply that I found it to be the least sociable activity in the game since it's hyper-focused on performance, not camaraderie.

    eta Given that this game will likely be very similar to WoW and be raid-centric, anyway, I imagine I'll probably end up passing on it and stick with STO and, hopefully soon, Palia.
    I just quoted a.. well quote from "the internet". Really did not want be rude. THought the quotes were enough for that. Sorry anyway.
    If you don't like raiding you don't like raiding. Thats fine. But that doesn't make raiding any less social. Maybe you need a raidgroup that is less competetive and more towards a good time. Mine is. We go into Mythic but never clear. That is ok for me.

    I have a hell of a lot of fun raiding and the banter between progress boss fights is alway amazingly fun.

    Raiding IS social. One of the most communication heavy parts of the game. If i have fun or you don't has no influence on it.

    What is STO?^^

  16. #436
    Stood in the Fire VMSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Raiding has never been a ‘social’ experience for me, even in a guild. There are a couple of scenarios that play out.

    A. You’re in a guild doing progression: most people sit silently while just discussing call outs and strats. Hoping to Christ there’s no awkwardness with someone wiping the raid or loot drama

    B. You’re in a guild on farm: people are more relaxed but there’s so many people in coms at once you either hear nothing but audio rape or complete silence. Either way you’re only talking to the people you actually play with outside of raid anyway

    C. You’re in a pug and everything above is amplified 10 fold.
    Yes, you get exactly what I'm saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Maybe you need a raidgroup that is less competetive and more towards a good time. Mine is. We go into Mythic but never clear. That is ok for me.

    I have a hell of a lot of fun raiding and the banter between progress boss fights is alway amazingly fun.
    Yes, this does happen. I never said raiding was completely anti-social, only that I find it less social. And the reality is that your experience is not what I imagine the majority of people's experience of raiding to be. A vanishingly small number of raid groups are focused on fucking around and having a good time whether bosses die or not. Most people expect progress and focus on that progress to the detriment of social interaction.

    Even in the most relaxed raiding experience I've ever had in my guild there were still expectations and a focus on performance. The bulk of the social interaction was had between the people that interacted outside of the raid normally already, just as Somic describes above.

    Raiding IS social. One of the most communication heavy parts of the game. If i have fun or you don't has no influence on it.

    What is STO?^^
    Again, it's not completely anti-social, it's only IMO the least social experience in the game when compared to anything else. Even solo questing is more social I've found simply because that's where I've typically met new people as we bump into each other and discover a shared goal. It's how I've found every guild worth a damn I've ever been in.

    STO is Star Trek Online. No raiding. Task Force Operations (dungeons) are queued for at most levels of difficulty and are just plain fun and reward varying levels of "marks", depending on difficulty level. There's no competition in the game, other than maybe friends trying to out-dps each other. Most people just have fun in a Star Trek universe and chit chat about whatever with each other or roleplay or dress up. DPS is an afterthought and the PvP community is so tiny you wouldn't even know it exists in the game. It's just about having fun and living in a different world, rather than performance and overcoming challenges and all the shit WoW treats as vital ... and, consequently, it's vastly more social than WoW has ever been.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    STO is Star Trek Online. No raiding. Task Force Operations (dungeons) are queued for at most levels of difficulty and are just plain fun and reward varying levels of "marks", depending on difficulty level. There's no competition in the game, other than maybe friends trying to out-dps each other. Most people just have fun in a Star Trek universe and chit chat about whatever with each other or roleplay or dress up. DPS is an afterthought and the PvP community is so tiny you wouldn't even know it exists in the game. It's just about having fun and living in a different world, rather than performance and overcoming challenges and all the shit WoW treats as vital ... and, consequently, it's vastly more social than WoW has ever been.
    Big ups on this. I casually play and most of STO is legit just single player in terms of content and how they handle "episodes" (like the show!).

    But you see a LOT of socializing at social hubs like Risa and KDF/Federation HQ and DS9 and stuff. Lots of space barbie, lots of folks showing off their cool ships, memorials for the passing of actors etc.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    I just quoted a.. well quote from "the internet". Really did not want be rude. THought the quotes were enough for that. Sorry anyway.
    If you don't like raiding you don't like raiding. Thats fine. But that doesn't make raiding any less social. Maybe you need a raidgroup that is less competetive and more towards a good time. Mine is. We go into Mythic but never clear. That is ok for me.

    I have a hell of a lot of fun raiding and the banter between progress boss fights is alway amazingly fun.

    Raiding IS social. One of the most communication heavy parts of the game. If i have fun or you don't has no influence on it.

    What is STO?^^
    Lol dude, you don’t have to hate raiding to think it isn’t as social as other aspects of the game. I loved raiding a lot, that doesn’t instantly mean it’s the most social aspect of the game.

    Just picture yourself in a 40 man raid in classic or even a 25 man raid in tbc or wotlk and imagine the majority of interactions between everyone, even if you’re just messing around. And compare that to let’s say you joining a group of 5 random players in goldshire fight off another 5 random players ganking quest givers.

    I guarantee you there is way way way way more social interaction with the random players locating and pvping with random gankers than there are people dropping bosses in raids.

    And I’m not noob to this shit either I raided in every single possible raid setup there is, every possible guild you can think of, every possible loot rules, etc etc.

    I love raids, but they are no where even remotely comparable to almost any other aspect of the game in terms of social interaction. ESPECIALLY when it comes to interacting with players you don’t normally interact with.

  19. #439
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    I'm with @VMSmith . The raiding experience is awful. Doesn't matter if it's WoW or GW2 or FFXIV or Warframe or whatever.

    First, you have the chore of doing the same boss fight over, and over, and over again. For an arbitrary stat boost that becomes invalidated when the next raid tier releases. A boss fight loses its awe after you've done it half a dozen times, let alone hundreds.

    Then you have the guild drama. You are asked to be good at two, competing things: be introverted and practice your music at home over and over again (or in this case, do thousands of hours of research and practicing your rotation), and then be extroverted and perform in front of a lot of people and be a charismatic personality. Most people can't be good at both. So most of the time you either get people who have spent a lot of time practicing and are good in isolation, but they're not good communicators, or you get people who are a delight to listen to but they're not very good raiders. Which leads to conflict. So you have people having meltdowns over Vent/Teamspeak/Discord. And that's not even getting into other things like greed over loot or relationships (you'd think people would have figured out by now to never allow girls into your raid team? They are almost always the source of drama) or the favoritism or the hatreds and the gossiping and so on. You log in to raid and be miserable for 3 hours over and over again... and then you realize that you're supposed to be playing this entertainment medium on your free time to have fun, but all you're doing is subjecting yourself to idiots over the internet who you loathe for an arbitrary stat increase that will be invalidated come the next raid tier anyway. Rarely you will get a merely pleasant group but you're still doing a repetitive, unfun grind.

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