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  1. #1481
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I mean it worked in tbc and was working in wrath till kick protection came in...
    This. People tend to forget this, but it's true

  2. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I mean it worked in tbc and was working in wrath till kick protection came in...
    It worked so "flawlessly" /s in BC that only <12% or so (iirc) of the playerbase ever saw the inside of BT, and even less for SWP. Consequences were promptly seen in WotLK, with easier dungeons and several difficuly modes for raids and confirmed by the disastrous "git gud" approach of early Cata, which we all know how it ended: massive nerfs to dungeons and the introduction of LFR. After all, you can't justify developing extremely expensive content such as raids for just a tiny minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    This. People tend to forget this, but it's true
    Chances are that easier dungeons and several difficulty raids (except for Naxx, which was laughably undertuned anyway) were much more effective than kick protection, which should have been there from the very beginning.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  3. #1483
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I mean it worked in tbc and was working in wrath till kick protection came in...
    Except it didn't. Vanilla - Wotlk was "git stable-internet-connection-eyes-mouse-keyboard", rather than "git gud".
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  4. #1484
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It worked so "flawlessly" /s in BC that only <12% or so (iirc) of the playerbase ever saw the inside of BT, and even less for SWP. Consequences were promptly seen in WotLK, with easier dungeons and several difficuly modes for raids and confirmed by the disastrous "git gud" approach of early Cata, which we all know how it ended: massive nerfs to dungeons and the introduction of LFR. After all, you can't justify developing extremely expensive content such as raids for just a tiny minority.



    Chances are that easier dungeons and several difficulty raids (except for Naxx, which was laughably undertuned anyway) were much more effective than kick protection, which should have been there from the very beginning.
    Its why all content is seen by ever...

    Trans-location complete. Commencing planetary analysis of Azeroth.
    Stand back, Soon-TM. I am not here to debate you.
    It is in the universe's best interest to re-originate this planet should my analysis find systemic corruption. Do not interfere.

    I have seen worlds bathed in the Casual' flames. Their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary difficulty systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart, devoid of emotion... of empathy. I... have... felt... NOTHING! A million, million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?
    Perhaps it is your imperfection that which grants you free will. That allows you to persevere against all cosmically calculated odds. You prevailed where the Titans' own perfect creations have failed.
    I've rearranged the reply code. Your planet will be spared. I cannot be certain of my own calculations anymore.
    I lack the strength to transmit the signal. You must hurry. Find a place of power close to the skies.
    Do not worry about my fate Soon-TM. If the signal is not transmitted in time re-origination will proceed regardless. Save. Your. World.

  5. #1485
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The "git gud" policy has never worked. It didn't in Cata, it didn't in WoD, and certainly it isn't working in SL, we wouldn't be witnessing such a blooming boost industry otherwise.
    It worked in classic.

    Guilds saw who was a good player and who wasn't. A good but undergeared player would be geared up by the guild. Today it's all gearscore. A good player with bad gear will not get invited anywhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I knew a guy who was a guild leader in TBC. He promised the phoenix mount would be rollable for anyone ranked raider and above in his guild. OFC, one night the phoenix dropped and the GM ninja looted it and his guild disbanded on the spot.

    He was an outcast on the server, even with his phoenix mount, until the day he could name change, cross realm.. and he became just another face in the crowd.

    Accountability mattered, and 90% of the time someone got blacklisted for a GOOD reason and it was great to see, even a guy in t5 and a phoenix mount, unable to even get a ZG group because my server held him accountable for his actions.

    Those type of interactions don't exist anymore, because no server (outside of classic realms) have any identity, or even an iota of accountability.
    I miss that.

  6. #1486
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharein View Post
    It worked in classic.
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
    If you didn't get your COVID shot it's probably too late now, you fool.

  7. #1487
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    Can confirm that at least for me, the harder content became, I became less interested in engaging in it at all, and more interested in just watching videos where people explain the story of the content. It got to a point where I just couldn't perform to the level I used to perform at, simply because there's now way too much stuff to try and keep track of in encounters, at least for me.

  8. #1488
    I am Murloc! Usagi Senshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    They always forget or act like that was never the case or use sub numbers (which is a very useless quantifier for such things) to try and bolster their weak ass grasping.

    They also forget that a cross-realm dungeon finder was being worked on as far back as 2006 because they (the devs) knew Raid or Die wasn't going to cut it long-term.

    I didn't even finish leveling this time and just went full time back into FFXIV because I knew (did level x2 on the Beta) what bullshit awaited me. If they salvage the expansion by 9.2 I'll be back (very unlikely because of the next FFXIV expansion coming in Nov), maybe, but if 10.0 is a repeat of SL and its gearing changes, I'll be gone for good this time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Exystredofar View Post
    Can confirm that at least for me, the harder content became, I became less interested in engaging in it at all, and more interested in just watching videos where people explain the story of the content. It got to a point where I just couldn't perform to the level I used to perform at, simply because there's now way too much stuff to try and keep track of in encounters, at least for me.
    I used to be hardcore an kept at it for 15+ years but its not worth to me in an MMO anymore. Blizzard always goes back and forth with absurd extremes at the cost of their player base.
    Tikki tikki tembo, Usagi no Yojimbo, chari bari ruchi pip peri pembo!

  9. #1489
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharein View Post
    It worked in classic.

    Guilds saw who was a good player and who wasn't. A good but undergeared player would be geared up by the guild. Today it's all gearscore. A good player with bad gear will not get invited anywhere.
    Difficulty in Classic is nonexistant. Don't get me wrong, I loved Classic and now BC (as a matter of fact, I've almost entirely dumped retail), but claiming that Classic was/is Git Gud in any capacity is... just wrong. Especially if you compare them to its direct predecessors such as EQ or UO.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  10. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I knew a guy who was a guild leader in TBC. He promised the phoenix mount would be rollable for anyone ranked raider and above in his guild. OFC, one night the phoenix dropped and the GM ninja looted it and his guild disbanded on the spot.

    He was an outcast on the server, even with his phoenix mount, until the day he could name change, cross realm.. and he became just another face in the crowd.

    Accountability mattered, and 90% of the time someone got blacklisted for a GOOD reason and it was great to see, even a guy in t5 and a phoenix mount, unable to even get a ZG group because my server held him accountable for his actions.

    Those type of interactions don't exist anymore, because no server (outside of classic realms) have any identity, or even an iota of accountability.
    Sounds more a problem to the loot system. Esspecially since ganking up on someone because they did something "bad" TOTALLY cannot and will not be abused.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  11. #1491
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharein View Post
    It worked in classic.

    Guilds saw who was a good player and who wasn't. A good but undergeared player would be geared up by the guild. Today it's all gearscore. A good player with bad gear will not get invited anywhere.
    With classic, iunno this seems like a fallacy.

    Lets say a bad player paid for several carry runs with gold they have and gets decked out in the best gear available. Do you still equate gear to player skill? Likely not. And if they are still a bad player despite being decked in good gear, they might just get benched for someone with more skill who needs just better gear.

    And for the opposite end of that, a good player in bad gear, that is fairly nebulous as it doesn't tell us how actually bad their gear is. Are they purely in gray gear with no rings or trinkets or shoulders? Do they have any greens or dungeon blues? Without this sort of information, this might as well be a quantum state raider, in which the player simultaneously has any combination of gear until that information is revealed. And if one were to go further into discussion about the exact nature, its a rabbit hole of goalposts being moved.

  12. #1492
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    I happened to reread the first posts ITT, and couldn't help but to chuckle. Oh dear...
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  13. #1493
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    Making content hard does not induce players to rise to the occasion to defeat hard content. GC is correct. Human nature is such that positive social experiences cause people to rise to the occasion and beat hard content.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  14. #1494
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Making content hard does not induce players to rise to the occasion to defeat hard content. GC is correct. Human nature is such that positive social experiences cause people to rise to the occasion and beat hard content.
    I don't think its necessarily anything indicative about human nature. Simple why would anyone subject themselves to torture?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I don't think its necessarily anything indicative about human nature. Simple why would anyone subject themselves to torture?
    I mean, there are some people with a competitive mindset, and that's OK. What isn't OK is warping around the entire RPG genre to cater to them. Competitive folks can already #$@& around with FPS's, racing games, MOBAs, arcade games or even #$&@ing chess, do they have to "leave their mark" on a RPG as well?
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  16. #1496
    Epic!
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    Good news everyone! A bit more waiting and this milk will become yogurt!

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