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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    this explains everything you want to know

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=8m20s

    im too tired to make a tldr though...so please watch
    Wow... i got really angry at that "antecipation" talk. What BS.

    What builds anticipation? A 10% chance to get a drop you need, or running a dungeon and getting 1 badge each time and getting the item after 10?
    One leaves you with a sense of wasted time, frustration and disappointment and when you finally get it, it's relief you experience, not excitement.
    Get 10 badges, you are working towards your reward in a deterministic way and your anticipation is rising until you finally get the item and feel rewarded for your effort.

    Not to even mention that one player playing with you and doing the same effort can get all the drops and you get none. Cause this is all very fun. Blizzard TM design. God i hate gambling...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Yeah, being forced to run pointless heroics every day was so much better.
    Or they could have you know, fixed the system a bit and did like FFXIV does and allow multiple types of content to award badges.

    If I remember right they did do this for MoP.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  3. #43
    Badges were okay back in the day, but I got used to the game with no badges and I think I wouldn't want them back again.

    I prefer to do a dungeon and have an item drop or not, rather than having to do a fixed number of dungeons to gain enough badges for an item. I don't want daily dungeons anymore, I want to have the freedom to run 5 dungeons in a row on one day if I feel like it, and no dungeons throughout the rest of the week should I feel like that.

    Besides, if we're talking badges as means for catch up for casual players, there are many other methods for that right now, all of which are more interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Wow... i got really angry at that "antecipation" talk. What BS.

    What builds anticipation? A 10% chance to get a drop you need, or running a dungeon and getting 1 badge each time and getting the item after 10?
    One leaves you with a sense of wasted time, frustration and disappointment and when you finally get it, it's relief you experience, not excitement.
    Get 10 badges, you are working towards your reward in a deterministic way and your anticipation is rising until you finally get the item and feel rewarded for your effort.

    Not to even mention that one player playing with you and doing the same effort can get all the drops and you get none. Cause this is all very fun. Blizzard TM design. God i hate gambling...
    You won't feel like you're wasting time if you run the dungeon knowing that you might not get it.

    Getting 1 badge each time, and getting the item after 10 dungeons, makes it feel like a real life job. Especially when you tie it to some shit daily system which forces you to run the content every day regardless of whether you feel like it or not.

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Something something speedrun mentality. Can't find the quote from the devs but it's out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I got geared much easier in SL than I did back in WOTLK, faster too. First set that allowed me to skip Normal grinding = from the AH. The rest I got from HC dungeons, then Mythic, now raiding.

    I'll take getting the gear from the source over farming a currency that I'll have to wait to spend at a vendor to get actually useful pieces, all the while selling every piece that drops for me in the dungeons as I cap the currency, tyvm. My memory of WOTLK's currencies was that people capped them for the week, then sat in cities waiting for reset.

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    Also this ^.
    ye wait with this statement when 200 itlv gear will be aviable via anima upgrades - and mythic + / normal raids still will have abysmall loot drop rates.

    you will see amazing thread like "mythic + 2-8 is completly pointelss now blizz" or " i dont get loot in normal raids and im forced to farm WQ to pgoress my gear"

    my advice ? start farming that AP right now

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    It worked in cata. It worked in wrath. It sort of worked in mop but it was gimmicky. Ever since then there has been maybe one patch per expansion with badge gear. I don’t understand why they can’t just bring back valor points? Running a daily heroic felt good. Finally upgrading a low ilvl piece you had due to a bad luck streak felt good. Getting shards once you can’t get anymore upgrades from the vendor felt good.

    Why the helll don’t they just bring this back? Why are they so adamant to make gear purely RNG?
    It was time, when content focus was different. 5ppls and raids were major kinds of content, that should have been accessible to ALL players. I.e. when new raid was released, it was supposed, that even new players, that have just started to play this game, should have immediate access to it. That's, why catch-up were super important back then. Therefore two things should have been done: 1) Players should have been motivated to still do 5ppls, even when they no longer needed anything from there. Because 5ppls were major catch-up for new players. Problem with group content - is that you can't do it, when activity drops and it dies. 2) New players should have had gear catch-ups, that should have allowed them to jump strait into raids.

    Many things changed since that times. Some players complained, that catch-ups ruined this game. Because they allowed players to skip massive layers of content instead of doing them. And all of a sudden Blizzard listened to that guys. Blizzard always listen to hardcore guys, who want to make this game "harder". That's why we got BFA at the end. Xpack with literally zero catch-ups, that had 2 full game mechanics reset with need to regrind everything from scratch during it's lifetime.

  7. #47
    Daily dungeons creates a sense of must play everyday short of thing. Nor do I particularly enjoy the fact that I keep counting which makes any grind awful for me. Knowing I have X amount of runs to do is worse for me than doing a few runs here and there and eventually get it, sometimes sooner sometimes later.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    It was time, when content focus was different. 5ppls and raids were major kinds of content, that should have been accessible to ALL players. I.e. when new raid was released, it was supposed, that even new players, that have just started to play this game, should have immediate access to it. That's, why catch-up were super important back then. Therefore two things should have been done: 1) Players should have been motivated to still do 5ppls, even when they no longer needed anything from there. Because 5ppls were major catch-up for new players. Problem with group content - is that you can't do it, when activity drops and it dies. 2) New players should have had gear catch-ups, that should have allowed them to jump strait into raids.

    Many things changed since that times. Some players complained, that catch-ups ruined this game. Because they allowed players to skip massive layers of content instead of doing them. And all of a sudden Blizzard listened to that guys. Blizzard always listen to hardcore guys, who want to make this game "harder". That's why we got BFA at the end. Xpack with literally zero catch-ups, that had 2 full game mechanics reset with need to regrind everything from scratch during it's lifetime.
    dunno - i very fondly reminiscent wolk/cata/mop exackly because of having fun facerolling hc dungeons - helping this way to weaker players for whom it was primery content on my alts.

    i especially had fun doing it in end times dungeons - while farming rep via tabards too in process of Vp farm . really fun it was

    (f... now i kinda want cata legacy server from blizz ;P )

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    It was time, when content focus was different. 5ppls and raids were major kinds of content, that should have been accessible to ALL players. I.e. when new raid was released, it was supposed, that even new players, that have just started to play this game, should have immediate access to it. That's, why catch-up were super important back then. Therefore two things should have been done: 1) Players should have been motivated to still do 5ppls, even when they no longer needed anything from there. Because 5ppls were major catch-up for new players. Problem with group content - is that you can't do it, when activity drops and it dies. 2) New players should have had gear catch-ups, that should have allowed them to jump strait into raids.

    Many things changed since that times. Some players complained, that catch-ups ruined this game. Because they allowed players to skip massive layers of content instead of doing them. And all of a sudden Blizzard listened to that guys. Blizzard always listen to hardcore guys, who want to make this game "harder". That's why we got BFA at the end. Xpack with literally zero catch-ups, that had 2 full game mechanics reset with need to regrind everything from scratch during it's lifetime.
    BfA ended with a ton of catch ups

    If blizzard listened to the hardcore players then we’d still have master loot

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Many things changed since that times. Some players complained, that catch-ups ruined this game. Because they allowed players to skip massive layers of content instead of doing them. And all of a sudden Blizzard listened to that guys. Blizzard always listen to hardcore guys, who want to make this game "harder". That's why we got BFA at the end. Xpack with literally zero catch-ups, that had 2 full game mechanics reset with need to regrind everything from scratch during it's lifetime.
    Huh? Literally every raid becomes obsolete after a new raid comes out.. Because of catch up systems. You got your catch up on AP grind. You get ilvl increases in m+... Almost everything scales up the new raid.
    You even have catch up on renown already if you are behind etc etc. There is nothing stopping someone from catching up if they start later.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Many things changed since that times. Some players complained, that catch-ups ruined this game. Because they allowed players to skip massive layers of content instead of doing them. And all of a sudden Blizzard listened to that guys. Blizzard always listen to hardcore guys, who want to make this game "harder". That's why we got BFA at the end. Xpack with literally zero catch-ups, that had 2 full game mechanics reset with need to regrind everything from scratch during it's lifetime.
    In BfA you could literally catch up within a week. It was miles ahead of shadowlands when it comes to catching up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    There is nothing stopping someone from catching up if they start later.
    Oh yes there is, abysmally low droprates and only relevant gear being from vault.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    In BfA you could literally catch up within a week. It was miles ahead of shadowlands when it comes to catching up.

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    Oh yes there is, abysmally low droprates and only relevant gear being from vault.
    You could only catch up in a week AFTER 8.3 maybe if you were lucky

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    Because the current system is infinitely better
    How is it better? With currency you can target specific items. The speed varies depending on how fast you can get the currency.

    I guess some people like the "rush" of an RNG casino in systems like the vault. But slowly progresing with a specific target is also satisfying

  14. #54
    Because it's better to obtain less gear and more rng according to "players" on this forum.
    Last edited by Tarba; 2020-12-20 at 09:38 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    In BfA you could literally catch up within a week. It was miles ahead of shadowlands when it comes to catching up.

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    Oh yes there is, abysmally low droprates and only relevant gear being from vault.
    What a silly notion.... Majority of my gear and heating up for hc /mythic has been from m0 and m+. Some pieces are from honor vendor / conquest... All of them relevant. Unless you think only relevant items are highest ilvl,there is plenty of ways to get gear some are more deterministic than others. I have one piece of gear from the vault, so does most... I guess no one has relevant gear...

    Even then the gear dropping and such is the same for everyone. While a new player don't have to do the old stuff or getting old ilvl to be able to get current content gear. Thus there is catch up mechanics for new players. Since they will always get ilvl that's current.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    You could only catch up in a week AFTER 8.3 maybe if you were lucky
    Nope, we had people switching classes in 8.1 and 8.2, I did two switches myself, one in BoD and second one in Nyalotha.
    It was ez and fast.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    What a silly notion.... Majority of my gear and heating up for hc /mythic has been from m0 and m+. Some pieces are from honor vendor / conquest... All of them relevant. Unless you think only relevant items are highest ilvl,there is plenty of ways to get gear some are more deterministic than others. I have one piece of gear from the vault, so does most... I guess no one has relevant gear...

    Even then the gear dropping and such is the same for everyone. While a new player don't have to do the old stuff or getting old ilvl to be able to get current content gear. Thus there is catch up mechanics for new players. Since they will always get ilvl that's current.
    Once you realize curve will be at minimum of 210 ilvl in like 2 weeks (because of vault) you will realize how mistaken you were.
    There is an effective difference between dungeon end reward vs vault reward of about ~25ilvls (which is about the same mathematically as new ~ +16).

  17. #57
    Where do the badges come from? What ilvl do the badges give? How many are required per piece? How many drop? How many drop per diffficutly? Why can’t you grind pvp and upgrade items that way since they can be upgraded to mythic dungeon quality?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    It worked in cata. It worked in wrath. It sort of worked in mop but it was gimmicky. Ever since then there has been maybe one patch per expansion with badge gear. I don’t understand why they can’t just bring back valor points? Running a daily heroic felt good. Finally upgrading a low ilvl piece you had due to a bad luck streak felt good. Getting shards once you can’t get anymore upgrades from the vendor felt good.

    Why the helll don’t they just bring this back? Why are they so adamant to make gear purely RNG?
    Because RNG = chance, and chance = addictive.
    It's legal softcore gambling, of course they're not going to give it up.

    (inb4 nitpickers about " no money no gambling"; nowadays there's a literal official exchange rate in gold for money in the form of tokens)

    Also realise that those vulnerable to such games of chance tend to see luck as a form of skill when it's in their favor, thus they demand rarity and quality bound to rng (as seeing it mitigated harms their self image of being accomplished and skillful, hurting them).
    Last edited by loras; 2020-12-20 at 10:19 AM.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  19. #59
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    I'm fine being called a "softcore gambler" because i like loot drops instead of very static buying/planning out of gear.
    RNG can be fun if it's not excessive like in Legion/Bfa.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    BfA ended with a ton of catch ups

    If blizzard listened to the hardcore players then we’d still have master loot
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Huh? Literally every raid becomes obsolete after a new raid comes out.. Because of catch up systems. You got your catch up on AP grind. You get ilvl increases in m+... Almost everything scales up the new raid.
    You even have catch up on renown already if you are behind etc etc. There is nothing stopping someone from catching up if they start later.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    In BfA you could literally catch up within a week. It was miles ahead of shadowlands when it comes to catching up.
    Dunno, what you talk about, because I started playing BFA in 8.2, as always, when flying was enabled. And I couldn't do Nazjatar properly, because I didn't have fully leveled heart and proper essences. And I was able to slowly "catch-up" on one character only. My main. 8.3 content allowed my to "catch-up" only because corruptions were so OP, so they gave me big power boost pretty fast. Problem is - they required cloak => cloak required visions => visions required dailies. And I hated that content. Again, I had no desire to do it on alts.

    And WotLK had smooth content progression. 180ilvl while leveling => 200ilvl in 3.0 heroics => 220 ilvl in 3.2 heroics => 240 ilvl in 3.3 heroics => jumping strait to ICC.

    It was also true for any intermediate patch. 3.0 had Arca and Sart, that were at LFR level of difficulty and allowed players to get tier pieces. Mali was a little bit harder and extra loot. Each raid had 2 "difficulties" with different ilvl requirements and rewards - 10 and 25. Each raid had wings with linear difficulty ramping. Even casuals could complete wing 1 and 2. And progress further with time.

    Current xpacks are hell in comparison with it. They are extremely time/grind/RNG-gated. And in most cases certain rewards are gated behind certain kinds of content, that makes them mandatory for your, even if you don't like them. You can't just do, what you like to do and skip everything else.

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