Why is blizzard so against PvE badge gear?

[Flaim]

Why is blizzard so against PvE badge gear?

because it's a boring system

[khazmodan]

Honestly... I've always disliked this video as it's basically a non-answer to the problem at hand. And their change away from token vendors created more problems than the very few issues vendors ever had. The top comment is also apt, it's not a real criticism of the situation, but it's always worth the chuckle; He's condemning the gearing situation of the game when it was at it's most popular, with a ravenous fanbase, and presenting that the gearing system when the game started to massively decline in popularity is "better". Anecdotally, a lot of people hate recent gearing. It's definitely been an objective step backwards, as random forging, sockets, raining gear has been bad, etc...
He condemns players "farming" IE actually playing the game, in old raids, and dungeons getting badges as "Bad" but then fails how much forging created forced farming and other recent issues.

Basically, this whole video is shit and one of the games major issues is encapsulated in that he says the team got to a point "where they stopped caring".

Seeing as SL has spent significant time reversing the decision of the last 6+ years, I think it's safe to say this guy was wrong.

End of the day, the Badge system was "clumsy" at it's worst. The worst thing that would happen is when the vendor sold an item for a slot a player needed, but with stats they didn't want. But in that scenario there were usually multiple issues with what the "player wanted" or how much content/gear attempts they were getting anyway. IE if the player just ran dungeons, the gear that they could buy after a significant time investment was better that their gear, period... If the person was running raids and they just had some bad luck and the best they could buy from the vendor had off stats... it was still an upgrade and if they are raiding and getting the gear they want in other slots, were likely already butting against their soft caps, massively devaluing their preferred stats. What the badge system did do was give lower end players a chance to get some normal raid gear. It was after such a significant amount of time that no real raider cared because they moved on from that gear as it was or they had it for months.

Really the whole question of liking badge gear or not is subjective. It was a different system, but on the whole it had way less issues than the systems that replaced it and that's not subjective.

well said, This video came out when WoW was at a really low point and denying any value in the badge system was part of that arrogance.

[Big Thanks]

Did you even watch the video? in it he talks about the problems with putting badges in RAIDS and people losing the "excitement" because of grinding badges...kind of like the honor and conquest points we grind again for pvp and the soul ash we grind for legendaries or the stygia we grind for venari rep and gem sockets.

I watched the video...yet again today (i've watched it a couple times in the past)
If i remember correctly he said

"people starting seeing rewards as a paycheck and there was no excitement in getting loot"

So..i guess we could still say his conclusion is just a matter of opinion

[owbu]

I think most people like the idea of killing a monster and then getting a piece of loot from it that they can equip.
Getting 5 tokens to trade in for a piece of gear after you gathered 15 more tokens at an npc in town is far less interesting.

Predetermined loot from a random loot table seems like a reasonable sweet spot between "watch numbers grow every week" wrath and "full casino mode" bfa.

(I also like the legendary system that is part currency part drop part crafting)

[Lahis]

I got geared much easier in SL than I did back in WOTLK, faster too. First set that allowed me to skip Normal grinding = from the AH. The rest I got from HC dungeons, then Mythic, now raiding.

I'll take getting the gear from the source over farming a currency that I'll have to wait to spend at a vendor to get actually useful pieces, all the while selling every piece that drops for me in the dungeons as I cap the currency, tyvm. My memory of WOTLK's currencies was that people capped them for the week, then sat in cities waiting for reset.

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Also this ^.

Gearing is hard as balls right now. Still having several sub 200 slots because damn several hour long M+ runs never drop anything.

[StillMcfuu]

"I preferred badges therefore it's my subjective opinion that this system had less issues."

Yeah. Super objective opinion there, friendo.

Uh no, that's not what I said. I pointed out the issues with Badge gear and then I pointed out more recent issues, like devalued gear, forge farming, leggos on their release, sockets, etc...

There are more gearing issues now that there ever were with just the badge system. So as I said, you liking the system is your opinion, the fact is there have been more issue with the more recent systems, thats not an opinion.

[kaminaris]

So you had a fresh 120 with essence slot unlocks and rank 3 essences in a couple weeks?

8.1 just had the neck grind which based on how you say you play the game is probably what you did but 8.2 main swapping was not fast if for nothing other than the neck and essence grind

Also the difference between end of run and vault is like 14 or something. My +2 got me a 203 outta the vault

I just used other essence that could be acquired fast until I got best one. Difference between them was like 1% of my overall dps.
Not to mention I never got pvp essence that was suppose to be best one. But then again I know math pretty well.
As opposed to being stuck with minus 10 ilvl vs the curve. Which is roughly ~20% difference.

I just did M+, got myself base gear from there (which was at heroic level), then I did some AP grinding and stepped into mythic next week, literally acquired almost all gear from there (because at this point everyone already had everything so i got mostly what I need) and next reset I was able to pull mid pack of entire mythic raid team.

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Also in WotLK, Cata and MoP on MMO-C: "Why do we have this shit system? It forces me to grind xyz, it makes all my effort put in previous raid tier null and void if every scrub can get better gear now through badges from dailies etc"

Guess they "listened to feedback"?

Don't get me wrong, I was ok with badge gear, really liked it in TBC when attunements kept my alts out of raids, liked it in WotLK even when my alts could raid.

And if you think I made any of the reasons up, I will add this quote from right above my post in this thread:

Because honestly, with all its flaws Wotlk probably had most reasonable gearing system if we don't count TF. It was easy on casuals, and they could get really decent gear in reasonable amount of time.

[Kiwijello]

rng makes you spend more time grinding, more time staying subscribed.

Raise the currency price and lower the drop rate and achieve same thing?

[Marrilaife]

rng makes you spend more time grinding, more time staying subscribed.

First answer and it's a correct one. RNG and gambling is also addictive, so it's preying on psychological weaknesses of people, same as RNG lootboxes do. What's fair =/= what's profitable.

[erifwodahs]

m+ is sufficient supply of loot and it actually requires effort rather than random daily hc.

[Mokenuf]

m+ is sufficient supply of loot and it actually requires effort rather than random daily hc.

40+ minutes per dungeon for a chance of 1 piece of loot which you might not be able to trade. Yeah, plenty of loot.

[Synstir]

Blizzard should bring back those badges!
It made time spend in the game rewarding eventhough one didn't get any loot as drops.
For me personally it was a better system than just being dependent on drops.

Now I can spend a few hours in game and get drops I already have, which gives me the feeling of wasted time.
This will not be the same for everyone but for me it does.

[Traveler Voltin]

As someone who has massively bad luck when it comes to gearing i am not looking forward to playing WoW again when i am able to. (curse you blizzard launcher why wont you download.)

also i do miss badge gear.

[Zantera]

I feel like saying "it worked in cata and wotlk" is a truth with modification and a very subjective opinion. Personally I did not like the badge gear at all and it was something I was glad disappeared from the game.

[Synstir]

I feel like saying "it worked in cata and wotlk" is a truth with modification and a very subjective opinion. Personally I did not like the badge gear at all and it was something I was glad disappeared from the game.

Why?
Because all the other gearing options where still available to players.
So badges being present didn't change anything for the players who didn't want to use them, right?

[WskyDK]

40+ minutes per dungeon for a chance of 1 piece of loot which you might not be able to trade. Yeah, plenty of loot.

40+ minutes for an M+ dungeon is really long. we're hitting 30-35 minutes on most of our runs. Sure, loot has slowed down, but it is what it is since with the great vault we can target items better.

[Exeris]

Because the current system is infinitely better

How about the current system with a few badges now and then as an addition to buy an item or two for a gear slot you've been unlucky with?

Or a shield if you'd like to or are asked to try tanking, maybe even just for a transmog item that has alluded you while the raid was current.

[huth]

40+ minutes for an M+ dungeon is really long. we're hitting 30-35 minutes on most of our runs. Sure, loot has slowed down, but it is what it is since with the great vault we can target items better.

Is there even one in the current lineup where 40+ isn't above the limit?

[Dristereau]

I'm not entirely sure Badges in Wrath was that much of a great idea. I mean, I never stepped into a Raid besides Vault of Archavon that I remember and could buy gear way better than the content I was doing with Badges by joining a Heroic Dungeon and zerging through it. Is that what should happen? Do trivial content to get high quality gear?

I feel like the Great Vault is kind of a backup for gear. It rewards you based on the content you've been doing and has options depending on how much you've done of each. I like that you can have up to three choices for each thing, Raiding, M+ and PVP and, as I said, it is a choice unlike BFA where you opened two Chests weekly and hoped one of them wasn't crap.

I'm unsure how I feel about how little loot feels to come from Raids and maybe M+ but that's not that bad overall. I think the fact we can have a BIS list again now and get pieces that we can actually say 'right, I won't be replacing that this patch' is very different from BFA where a 475 box piece was unobtainable otherwise. I also feel that Mythic+ is a new form of badge content, in that you can keep getting better rewards in dungeons by pushing more difficult content.

However, to counteract my argument that loot can feel a bit light right now, if your Raid is clearing at least 3 bosses or you do an LFR wing, you are going to get something from the Vault so in a 20 man group at least 20 extra items will be obtained a week. I'm not saying it will all be useful but in four months you could potentially have gained a full set of gear.

[Sorrior]

m+ replaced badges,its far better of a system...ofc unless you REALLY hate dungeons,but its a trade off,in the past you had to farm those dungeons alot more but they were faster,now you dont need to farm m+ as much for the gear but the dungeon is harder

and if you enjoy dungeons,than ofc its obviously gr8 for you as its no longer mop style easy mode

i would however like to see the wod valor ilvl upgrade system back

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cool story but wrong,you spend less time doing m+ to get gear than you did farming all those badges in the past,because thats what m+ is,a much better replacement for badges

sure its posible for you to get really unlucky,but thats why you run with a guild and get stuff traded,i for example was mythic ready after just one week in 8.3 after not playing in 8.2

Thing is the valor/justice system offered a gearing route for non instanced content as well due to dailies also giving at least the weaker form. Thus it meant literally any activity could be rewarding

Right now there are no real gearing methods for casual players outside ring/covenant(which likely will be exclusive to this expansion)

It also acts as an rng protection system and lets people plan an upgrade path just inn case