Why is blizzard so against PvE badge gear?

[Kaver]

A currency system to buy what's currently available in M+? That could work.

Just so you at least got something everytime you finished a dungeon. It doesn’t have to be much. But it’s always nice to feel like you’re working towards something and have some kind of control. So let’s so you were able to buy the specific trinket you want after finishing 50 dungeons. I think that would be fair. But they should make a ranking system like in PVP that determines the ilvl of the gear you could by.

[deenman]

Badges mean no matter what say i only have 30 minutes i can prpgress my character and have an expected timeframe to get an item

You currently are not guranteed anything no matter how much you play(odds increase but no gurantees)

As for mythic again see the gurantee and ability to plam out a character(also tbh i hate the gogogogo mentality of mythic) which yes was tgere in wrath but there i could do dailies pop a que bam done for the day if i chose.

It also helps alts who you might not be planning to focus on but just enjoy playing/having geared up for holiday or old raid farming

exept realisticaly we know gearing has become far easier since the days of badges,these scenarios of...you could play 10 weeks and never get anything are so extremly rare its not worth even considering,and in some cases there is bad luck protection...

in my ownw experience i can say definitely that i have never geared up faster in the pre badges days than after,specialy if you have a guild to help you run stuff,and if you dont have a guild and you like to play solo,whats even the point of gearing up?what are you using that gear for?

[Xires]

It worked in cata. It worked in wrath. It sort of worked in mop but it was gimmicky. Ever since then there has been maybe one patch per expansion with badge gear. I don’t understand why they can’t just bring back valor points? Running a daily heroic felt good. Finally upgrading a low ilvl piece you had due to a bad luck streak felt good. Getting shards once you can’t get anymore upgrades from the vendor felt good.

Why the helll don’t they just bring this back? Why are they so adamant to make gear purely RNG?

their is so much less rng in gear now. lol Especially compared to the nightmare that was bfa's gearing system.
Why don't they bring it back? Because you already have different ways of getting gear.
They didn't have mythic+ back in wrath.
They also wanted to slow down the amount of loot you get and that's just fine with me. It makes the gear you get matter more and last longer while feeling better once you get it.
So easy to be 190+ right now.

[xenogear3]

I still remember that many raiders are crying, because the casual are getting the raid gear via valor badge.

However, if you do the math, it takes 6 months of daily dungeons to get a full set.

[Xires]

you act like people in wotlk werent also getting gear from current tier raids. They were. They were also able to supplement current tier with valor/justice token gear while at the same time running those late tier raids for loot. Your memory fails you and the current system is worse in every arguable way.

Also never forget under that system you could still wear any gear type your class could wear which was better and since you had multiple options it was easier to target stats. Plus... reforging. Everything was better then except there was no M+

100% disagree with you. The current loot system is superior in every way to wrath. Wrath people did crap for their valor and then sat in city's the whole xpac. People aren't sitting in city's and you have a slew of ways to get loot. Do a mythic+7 and you get a choice of a 213 item in your weekly VAULT. You know...the thing that gives you gear every single week? And then on top of that some of the gear in their was shit for valor badges. And it wasn't even top tier stuff. In TBC it was used as a catchup mechanic. You got T5 equiv loot for doing regular things. But people were raiding to get tier 6 and tier 6.5 in Sunwell. Also the trophy's and stuff you got were drops from raids that you turned in at vendors for tier gear.

SL's gearing system is waay waaaaay superior to wrath.

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I still remember that many raiders are crying, because the casual are getting the raid gear via valor badge.

However, if you do the math, it takes 6 months of daily dungeons to get a full set.

they were crying about the catchup gear from it. It wasn't the best loot though by any means.

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Badges mean no matter what say i only have 30 minutes i can prpgress my character and have an expected timeframe to get an item

You currently are not guranteed anything no matter how much you play(odds increase but no gurantees)

As for mythic again see the gurantee and ability to plam out a character(also tbh i hate the gogogogo mentality of mythic) which yes was tgere in wrath but there i could do dailies pop a que bam done for the day if i chose.

It also helps alts who you might not be planning to focus on but just enjoy playing/having geared up for holiday or old raid farming

So...in what world could you play an MMO for 30 minutes and get progression out of it? So basically, you want the bottom 1% of players to get gear that other people have to spend hours trying to achieve via raids and mythic+ loot. Maybe this game just isn't for you if you only have 30 minutes to play.
If blizzard caters to everyone...then no one is happy. So its best they actually cater to the players who actually PLAY the game. Rather then people who hop on for 30 minutes and then log off. Nah. No need for badge gear. Blizzard even specifically wants to slow down your gearing so badges are a big NO on that.
If you do a mythic+ you are guaranteed an item in your weekly vault. Since you are looking for quick fix. It's even better then badges.

[munkeyinorbit]

Blizzard should bring back those badges!
It made time spend in the game rewarding eventhough one didn't get any loot as drops.
For me personally it was a better system than just being dependent on drops.

Now I can spend a few hours in game and get drops I already have, which gives me the feeling of wasted time.
This will not be the same for everyone but for me it does.

We've had this type of thing all the way to the end of BfA. We have always had some sort of power upgrade through badges or points. The community is overwhelmingly over it. From badges to AP to corruptions to esscences to azerite gear points. The community is done. Don't worry, there will definitely be something in 9.2. Blizzard knows there will be tears and has planned accordingly. There will be a new thing to get for your legendary that will require a grind and then a currency for alts. You may not have realised but "badge gear" never went away.

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100% disagree with you. The current loot system is superior in every way to wrath. Wrath people did crap for their valor and then sat in city's the whole xpac. People aren't sitting in city's and you have a slew of ways to get loot. Do a mythic+7 and you get a choice of a 213 item in your weekly VAULT. You know...the thing that gives you gear every single week? And then on top of that some of the gear in their was shit for valor badges. And it wasn't even top tier stuff. In TBC it was used as a catchup mechanic. You got T5 equiv loot for doing regular things. But people were raiding to get tier 6 and tier 6.5 in Sunwell. Also the trophy's and stuff you got were drops from raids that you turned in at vendors for tier gear.

SL's gearing system is waay waaaaay superior to wrath.

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they were crying about the catchup gear from it. It wasn't the best loot though by any means.

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So...in what world could you play an MMO for 30 minutes and get progression out of it? So basically, you want the bottom 1% of players to get gear that other people have to spend hours trying to achieve via raids and mythic+ loot. Maybe this game just isn't for you if you only have 30 minutes to play.
If blizzard caters to everyone...then no one is happy. So its best they actually cater to the players who actually PLAY the game. Rather then people who hop on for 30 minutes and then log off. Nah. No need for badge gear. Blizzard even specifically wants to slow down your gearing so badges are a big NO on that.
If you do a mythic+ you are guaranteed an item in your weekly vault. Since you are looking for quick fix. It's even better then badges.

AP says high. This is exactly what blizzard Intended when they introduced it in Legion and kept it in BfA. Badge gear never left us. It just took different forms.

[Sorrior]

exept realisticaly we know gearing has become far easier since the days of badges,these scenarios of...you could play 10 weeks and never get anything are so extremly rare its not worth even considering,and in some cases there is bad luck protection...

in my ownw experience i can say definitely that i have never geared up faster in the pre badges days than after,specialy if you have a guild to help you run stuff,and if you dont have a guild and you like to play solo,whats even the point of gearing up?what are you using that gear for?

I do mostly play solo these days and old raids for transmog farming(better gear makes it go faster..especially with how glitchy legacy raids tuning is right now with 6- being worse to run say legion on then a 50), to make wqs a bit easier and it’s just nice to be able to have my character get stronger.

As for why I avoid guilds it’s in part because I enjoy taking breaks and I tend to put the guild/group I’m with before even my health(I start to see it as a commitment/job so I try to avoid that plus it helps me go at my own pace)

And I don;t think anyone’s saying have mythic ilv gear for badges but having decent enough gear you can still become stronger and not be completely behind would be great especially since pvp basically does exactly what jp/vp did

[razorpax]

40+ minutes per dungeon for a chance of 1 piece of loot which you might not be able to trade. Yeah, plenty of loot.

40 minutes???

[Cosmic Janitor]

this just makes me think the designers REALLY don't know what they are doing, understand the problems with the systems they actually put in place, or what players want

That presentation was mostly "look, since the beginning, we never even once thought one thing through to the end". This might as well have been a highlight reel of that. It's also bad for arguments of either camp tbh, since today they have alot more ways to manage the way they hand out currency, like weekly caps, progressive catch ups, etc. Alot of positions are also hightly debatable/subjective. Like why does some random pig-shaped monster in an instance drop [Glorious Uber-Pants of Awsome], "why is a vendor such a bad idea?". etc, when the question should probably be why we still have a 15 year old clunky vendor interface to begin with.

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40 minutes???

Do you honestly think the average person manages to finish all their m+ runs in time with their non-mdi, non-cheese groups of non-fotm classes?

[deenman]

I do mostly play solo these days and old raids for transmog farming(better gear makes it go faster..especially with how glitchy legacy raids tuning is right now with 6- being worse to run say legion on then a 50), to make wqs a bit easier and it’s just nice to be able to have my character get stronger.

As for why I avoid guilds it’s in part because I enjoy taking breaks and I tend to put the guild/group I’m with before even my health(I start to see it as a commitment/job so I try to avoid that plus it helps me go at my own pace)

And I don;t think anyone’s saying have mythic ilv gear for badges but having decent enough gear you can still become stronger and not be completely behind would be great especially since pvp basically does exactly what jp/vp did

gotcha,personaly i cant play wow if im not doing it for raiding,whenever i take breaks from wow i play singleplayer games,i simply cant imagine myself playing wow as a solo player instead of all the other much better singleplayer games

[Relapses]

That presentation was mostly "look, since the beginning, we never even once thought one thing through to the end". This might as well have been a highlight reel of that. It's also bad for arguments of either camp tbh, since today they have alot more ways to manage the way they hand out currency, like weekly caps, progressive catch ups, etc. Alot of positions are also hightly debatable/subjective. Like why does some random pig-shaped monster in an instance drop [Glorious Uber-Pants of Awsome], "why is a vendor such a bad idea?". etc, when the question should probably be why we still have a 15 year old clunky vendor interface to begin with.

>Game developer eloquently presents information at a conference meant for other game developers and describes the iterative process and the way they learned how to handle issues presented by their playerbase

Your hot take: "They're retarded lol, the playerbase always knew better who needs game developers anyway?????"

And you wonder why game developers rarely talk directly to the playerbase.

[Cosmic Janitor]

>Game developer eloquently presents information at a conference meant for other game developers and describes the iterative process and the way they learned how to handle issues presented by their playerbase

Your hot take: "They're retarded lol, the playerbase always knew better who needs game developers anyway?????"

And you wonder why game developers rarely talk directly to the playerbase.

Yes I know Blizzard can't fail in your eyes and century old engineering techniques of trying to extrapolate the outcome of your changes are utterly lost to you.

[Relapses]

Yes I know Blizzard can't fail in your eyes and century old engineering techniques of trying to extrapolate the outcome of your changes are utterly lost to you.

lmfao -- I don't give a shit about Blizzard but it's always hilarious how you get labeled a shill on this forum for having the audacity to not think they're completely fucking useless 100% of the time. And that bit about "century old engineering techniques" when referring to loot systems in an online video game where people slay internet dragons for imaginary loot. That is ~chef's kiss~ levels of cognitive dissonance, friendo.

But I digress. Please don't allow my attempts to view the situation with a meager level of pragmatism interrupt your anti-Blizzard circlejerk. Carry on.

[Alkizon]

Niwes
i agree zero to the videos conclusion

Something like that. It was certainly funny to listen to, but was constantly wanted to "insert a word" into his reasoning.

Let's start with fact, that considering such things in game out of context (in our case, design of classes, and organization of progress) is useless in principle. You just stupidly look at piece of something, like person at piece of meat/pulp without seeing body of animal/fruit to which it belongs (ex. comparison with children, that he gave, is incorrect in many ways; not because it doesn't show anything, but just by the way he analyzes this, there're number of parameters that need to be taken into account when drawing conclusions).

Particularly humorous part where he stated failure of paragon system. They continue to fail to understand that when people argue about whether progress and items are important in PvP, then everyone is right in own way, so you need to give "both", ie give progress to compensate for PvE progress (for this use dividing characteristics), but progress: 1) should not take a million exhausting @$$-hours (and this is strictly speaking both for the sake of PvE and for the sake of PvP community, both sides will benefit from it because PvP isn't PvE, there is completely different component of "satisfaction"; dividing helps to avoid escalating conflict between PvP/PvE progress); 2) have really achievable "leveling" ceiling, where skill and set of characteristics you have chosen will already be important (people continue to participate in PvP either by dressing twinks for this or simply enjoying process without additional revards, however, cosmetics in itself could be a small bonus, there is nothing wrong with that, but you don't need to weave PvE progress here); 3) at the same time, entire structure of classes shouldn't depend in any way on this action (in order to avoid direct dependence of system's balancing on classes' structure and design; for the same reason so-called PvP talents "designated for idiots" was initial delusion, like paragon system, like "borrowed powers" - all this is directly related to organization of progress), this is pure mathematics and organization of characteristics; 4) the whole structure of progress must stop resembling economic crisis (I'm talking about inflation).

Actually, there is topic with same line next to this one. It's essentially same theme. So here and there, I'd start with simple and trite:
- And let's first remove personal, scalable, "automatic" loot... boss will always drop something, but not necessarily stuff you need (though this already become group's question), and it will also drop badges in event of long string of failure. No guaranteed week/day end-awards. So, next, let's revise set of characteristics (back to our idi... ohm... devs) that are mandatory for this or that content, which will allow us to separate not only PvP and PvE items, but make badges an alternative, but not replacing, but only "temporarily" complementing ensemble of selected characteristics - they're your role, but not your class. Let's return structure of progress in which dungeons are element of preparation for raids (items, reagents, experience)... And then let's... Well, you get the idea, right? That is, structure of their failure is not so simple and its story goes into their desire to simplify their lives by automating and cheapening development of content and progress as a whole, but not as result of particularly ardent desire to satisfy players or making their world more immersive logical and wholesome, no no, this was considered last, they just "tested" "your" patience and provided just "shut up already" kind of help, which, as you understand, doesn't usually shine with wise performance

[razorpax]

That presentation was mostly "look, since the beginning, we never even once thought one thing through to the end". This might as well have been a highlight reel of that. It's also bad for arguments of either camp tbh, since today they have alot more ways to manage the way they hand out currency, like weekly caps, progressive catch ups, etc. Alot of positions are also hightly debatable/subjective. Like why does some random pig-shaped monster in an instance drop [Glorious Uber-Pants of Awsome], "why is a vendor such a bad idea?". etc, when the question should probably be why we still have a 15 year old clunky vendor interface to begin with.

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Do you honestly think the average person manages to finish all their m+ runs in time with their non-mdi, non-cheese groups of non-fotm classes?

I imagine they manage a +2 on time

[chiddie]

100% disagree with you. The current loot system is superior in every way to wrath. Wrath people did crap for their valor and then sat in city's the whole xpac. People aren't sitting in city's and you have a slew of ways to get loot. Do a mythic+7 and you get a choice of a 213 item in your weekly VAULT. You know...the thing that gives you gear every single week? And then on top of that some of the gear in their was shit for valor badges. And it wasn't even top tier stuff. In TBC it was used as a catchup mechanic. You got T5 equiv loot for doing regular things. But people were raiding to get tier 6 and tier 6.5 in Sunwell. Also the trophy's and stuff you got were drops from raids that you turned in at vendors for tier gear.

SL's gearing system is waay waaaaay superior to wrath.

- - - Updated - - -



they were crying about the catchup gear from it. It wasn't the best loot though by any means.

- - - Updated - - -



So...in what world could you play an MMO for 30 minutes and get progression out of it? So basically, you want the bottom 1% of players to get gear that other people have to spend hours trying to achieve via raids and mythic+ loot. Maybe this game just isn't for you if you only have 30 minutes to play.
If blizzard caters to everyone...then no one is happy. So its best they actually cater to the players who actually PLAY the game. Rather then people who hop on for 30 minutes and then log off. Nah. No need for badge gear. Blizzard even specifically wants to slow down your gearing so badges are a big NO on that.
If you do a mythic+ you are guaranteed an item in your weekly vault. Since you are looking for quick fix. It's even better then badges.

In world of Warcraft. One of the reasons it’s still alive and kicking is that even if you have barely one hour per day to play, you can still progress in some way.

[xenogear3]

they were crying about the catchup gear from it. It wasn't the best loot though by any means.

It is not catchup gear.
It has the latest tier bonus on them.

The weekly PvP boss also drops the hand/chest raid gear with tier bonus.

Thanks to raiders' tear, Blizzard removed them because it forces raiders to do these contents.
Anything unique, raiders will argue that they are forced to collect these gear, even the ilevel is lower.
For example, if a trinket makes you fall slow or creates an AoE damage, they will argue it is useful in one of the boss fight.

[huth]

It is not catchup gear.
It has the latest tier bonus on them.

IIRC that only happened for one or two tiers in WotLK. Valor gear existed for quite a bit longer than that. Most of it wasn't terribly good.

[WskyDK]

Is there even one in the current lineup where 40+ isn't above the limit?

My sanguine depths seven from the beginning of the week was 44:18 with an over time of 3:17

[BossManRoth]

Do you honestly think the average person manages to finish all their m+ runs in time with their non-mdi, non-cheese groups of non-fotm classes?

Yes, because most people aren't pushing keys that are above a 5