Why is blizzard so against PvE badge gear?

[socialmaker]

Because the current system is infinitely better

This! Play what you like and get rewarded via weekly Vault. I think it's slower but way more efficient in terms of constant progression.

[Relapses]

This! Play what you like and get rewarded via weekly Vault. I think it's slower but way more efficient in terms of constant progression.

The real irony will be six months from now when some galaxy brain inevitably makes a thread titled, "SL gearing wasn't all that bad," and all the people currently bitching about gear will be posting in it saying they're right.

[clevin]

The valor system was fine, but what I really miss was the upgrade system. Man I would stay subbed for so much longer if I knew every week one of my pieces would be 6 ilvl higher.

You can upgrade your covenant armor (though it's gated by campaign progress). No, your covenant armor isn't BiS, but it's good, especially for the early phases of the game.

[Sansnom]

Because the current system is infinitely better

Until RNG never rolls for you to upgrade that final piece. I recall people were complaining about RNG RNG RNG when their specific BiS/Upgrade never dropped and wanted some form of backup, ala currency, so they buy that last item.

I do not know if Blizzard has somehow addressed this by increasing chances to drop specific items. If so, then is it really RNG like the past?

I have gone through past expansion having never been able to upgrade certain pieces. I never got a helm upgrade during Cata and a belt during WoTLK. So it can happen.

I am not saying currency system is better. Never cared how they do the loot system. Just wondering if people will complain if RNG does not roll kindly for them midway during this expansion.

[D3athsting]

Because welfare epix are for pvpers only

[Thundering]

couse it was choice between more trash items you dont really want or less drops and most people prefer getting items they want over trash.

[sponge5307]

It worked in cata. It worked in wrath. It sort of worked in mop but it was gimmicky. Ever since then there has been maybe one patch per expansion with badge gear. I don’t understand why they can’t just bring back valor points? Running a daily heroic felt good. Finally upgrading a low ilvl piece you had due to a bad luck streak felt good. Getting shards once you can’t get anymore upgrades from the vendor felt good.

Why the helll don’t they just bring this back? Why are they so adamant to make gear purely RNG?

Because all the hardcore mythic raider and high m+ players QQ that casual players should not get gear. Therefore you can only get decent upgrades doing mythic raid and high keys.

[huth]

Because all the hardcore mythic raider and high m+ players QQ that casual players should not get gear. Therefore you can only get decent upgrades doing mythic raid and high keys.

Actually, the hardcore liked that. Much easier to refill when your recruits are already decently geared. It's the wannabes that kept complaining.

[kaminaris]

Actually, the hardcore liked that. Much easier to refill when your recruits are already decently geared. It's the wannabes that kept complaining.

Any raid leader/recruiting officer will tell you the same. It was easier to recruit new people because they had decent gear already and could be taken into progress without having to gear them up first. Nor you had to resort to guild pouching (tho it still existed).

[alturic]

The answer is out there my friend. It is because Blizzard likes the too deterministic nature of loot. They dislike that you can mark in your calendar, when you'll get piece x. The story is different for PvP, since there is 0 loot trading. So it makes sense for PvP gear to be more deterministic in its acquisition.

Uh, surely you mean this expansion only? After-all, we finally ditched the Diablo loot.

[Nite92]

Uh, surely you mean this expansion only? After-all, we finally ditched the Diablo loot.

*dislikes. My bad.

[Niwes]

Something like that. It was certainly funny to listen to, but was constantly wanted to "insert a word" into his reasoning.

Let's start with fact, that considering such things in game out of context (in our case, design of classes, and organization of progress) is useless in principle. You just stupidly look at piece of something, like person at piece of meat/pulp without seeing body of animal/fruit to which it belongs (ex. comparison with children, that he gave, is incorrect in many ways; not because it doesn't show anything, but just by the way he analyzes this, there're number of parameters that need to be taken into account when drawing conclusions).

Particularly humorous part where he stated failure of paragon system. They continue to fail to understand that when people argue about whether progress and items are important in PvP, then everyone is right in own way, so you need to give "both", ie give progress to compensate for PvE progress (for this use dividing characteristics), but progress: 1) should not take a million exhausting @$$-hours (and this is strictly speaking both for the sake of PvE and for the sake of the PvP community, both sides will benefit from it because PvP isn't PvE, there is completely different component of "satisfaction"; dividing helps to avoid escalating conflict between PvP/PvE progress); 2) have really achievable "leveling" ceiling, where skill and set of characteristics you have chosen will already be important (people continue to participate in PvP either by dressing twinks for this or simply enjoying process without additional revards, however, cosmetics in itself could be a small bonus, there is nothing wrong with that, but you don't need to weave PvE progress here); 3) at the same time, entire structure of classes shouldn't depend in any way on this action (in order to avoid direct dependence of system's balancing on classes' structure and design; for the same reason so-called PvP talents "designated for idiots" was initial delusion, like paragon system, like "borrowed powers" - all this is directly related to organization of progress), this is pure mathematics and organization of characteristics; 4) the whole structure of progress must stop resembling economic crisis (I'm talking about inflation).

Actually, there is topic with same line next to this one. It's essentially same theme. So here and there, I'd start with simple and trite:
- And let's first remove personal, scalable, "automatic" loot... boss will always drop something, but not necessarily stuff you need (though this already become group's question), and it will also drop badges in event of long string of failure. No guaranteed week/day end-awards. So, next, let's revise set of characteristics (back to our idi... ohm... devs) that are mandatory for this or that content, which will allow us to separate not only PvP and PvE items, but make badges an alternative, but not replacing, but only "temporarily" complementing ensemble of selected characteristics - they're your role, but not your class. Let's return structure of progress in which dungeons are element of preparation for raids (items, reagents, experience)... And then let's... Well, you get the idea, right? That is, structure of their failure is not so simple and its story goes into their desire to simplify their lives by automating and cheapening development of content and progress as a whole, but not as result of particularly ardent desire to satisfy players, no no, this was considered last, they just "tested" "your" patience and provided just "shut up already" kind of help, which, as you understand, doesn't usually shine with wise performance

exactly this.

in some form, the way he look at things in the video, is exactly what lead us to some „problems“ we have in modern wow. but, as i said in another post, this all comes down to „what type of game design ppl like“. in some way retail wow is a form of „conclusion“ of some statments in the video. in a more classical MMORPG game design the video fails. in the end of the day, it depends all on what type of MMORPG game design type you wanna target.

nonetheless, i totally agree to what you said.

[Tiwack]

so basicaly every single player rpg out there is shit,gotcha

Those are your words.

It's very immersive to me to farm anima/gold/whathaveyou to exchange for a mount. I far prefer that predictability over the alternative. Regardless of what you're going for, there's nothing wrong with slaying the dragon to pick up a cool piece of loot, regardless if it's guaranteed on the first kill via a quest or the 50th kill via a token currency. There is however something wrong with providing a lootpinata without sharing the odds of the rewards inside it. Luring people in by telling them they could hit the jackpot and still going on with that even after their 500th attempt - this method is predatory and ruins lives and relationships when people can't stop or realize what their priorities have come to, all so a business can profit by targeting adolescents that wouldn't be allowed into a casino.

[Glorious Leader]

Evidently its ok for pvp.

[Wondercrab]

this explains everything you want to know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=8m20s

im too tired to make a tldr though...so please watch

It's worth noting that that video does essentially boil down to "both have value, but I like RNG more". The speaker describes the design philosophies that led to things like titanforging and gambling on rewards rather than being able to obtain what you want, which I think history has shown are not good alternatives to currencies.

Ideally WoW should have a combination of both, if for no other reason than to make content always feel rewarding. It sucks to kill a boss and to see nothing but gold in the loot window. A lot of the discussion in that video seems to focus on the idea of PvE currencies being the only source of gear in a game, which was never the case in WoW. They were always a supplementary part of the gearing experience with random drops still being the main source of loot. For the vast majority of WoW's lifespan the inclusion of justice/valour struck a good balance between deterministic vs random loot rewards, while in recent years the game has leaned way too heavily on the RNG side of things.

[Jonnusthegreat]

You can upgrade your covenant armor (though it's gated by campaign progress). No, your covenant armor isn't BiS, but it's good, especially for the early phases of the game.

I would like it for all gear.

[clevin]

I would like it for all gear.

Yep. For example, I've had terrible luck upgrading weapons on my rogue - everything else is 164 or higher, most 171 or higher. Weapons stuck at 155/158. So I spend a few hours in PVP, bought new daggers and while the blue honor daggers start out at 158 you can upgrade them with honor.

[Glorious Leader]

It's worth noting that that video does essentially boil down to "both have value, but I like RNG more". The speaker describes the design philosophies that led to things like titanforging and gambling on rewards rather than being able to obtain what you want, which I think history has shown are not good alternatives to currencies.

Ideally WoW should have a combination of both, if for no other reason than to make content always feel rewarding. It sucks to kill a boss and to see nothing but gold in the loot window. A lot of the discussion in that video seems to focus on the idea of PvE currencies being the only source of gear in a game, which was never the case in WoW. They were always a supplementary part of the gearing experience with random drops still being the main source of loot. For the vast majority of WoW's lifespan the inclusion of justice/valour struck a good balance between deterministic vs random loot rewards, while in recent years the game has leaned way too heavily on the RNG side of things.

Its worse than just 35g. Its 35 anima or whatever AA scheme they want to advance this xpac.