Why are respected youtubers saying the rogue nerfs were "too much"?

[Vampyr78]

This is the first time I ever see them. Never heard about them before. Now just becasue they are "respected" whatever that means in this context doesn't mean they aren't entitled to have their own opinions. Everyone has opinions and you might still respect them and disagree with them.

[Virothe]

What the hell is going on?
I truly feel like im in the movie "Idiocracy" or something.

Alpha/Beta Testers: We want more abilities and less damage so that you don't need to nerf us and leave us in ruins the entire expansion

Blizz: ALRIGHT TURN UP THE DAMAGE

Alpha/Beta Testers: What?!??! NO JUST GIVE US A BIGGER KIT.

Blizz: MORE DAMAGE

Game releases

Everyone: WHY ARE THESE CLASSES SO STONG THEY NEED A NERF!

Alpha/Beta Testers: SIGH WE FUCKING TOLD YOU

Blizz: Alright crank the nozzle back.

That spec the rest of the expansion: IM A POTATO!

Everyone: MAN THIS SPEC IS BAD NOW LAWLS

[SinR]

Youtubers make money off of clickbait "the sky is falling" type content.

Aaaaaaaaaand /thread

[Virothe]

Aaaaaaaaaand /thread

lmao, Ya and that's why people don't take their shit seriously. But the multi-million dollar gaming company that makes the game and ignores all input from the player base clearly isn't at fault. Nahhhhhhhh just them greedy streamers.

[Virothe]

wtf is a respected youtuber.
l

Idk, prbly someone with more credibility than a Blizzard employee which isn't saying a lot if we're being real.

[SinR]

lmao, Ya and that's why people don't take their shit seriously. But the multi-million dollar gaming company that makes the game and ignores all input from the player base clearly isn't at fault. Nahhhhhhhh just them greedy streamers.

For every legitimate concern from the player base, there are tens, if not hundreds of "WAH THE SKY IS FALLING" YouTube videos from people that just want that sweet sweet Monetization.

REMEMBER GUYS TO MASH THAT LIKE FOLLOW AND SUBSCRIBE BUTTONS!!!

[Virothe]

For every legitimate concern from the player base.

No. Because a legitiment concern isn't "HEY THIS GUY DOES TO MUCH DPS TAKE IT AWAY"

A legit concern is "These specs are underperforming and not being played, how do we fix this?" Doing shit to make enhancement spec better for shamans so they aren't at the bottom for once, making outlaw spec better for rogues and not based around an RNG ability or giving the rogue specs any sort of actual identity back would be great.

But nah "plz nerf x class because I play this other class and I feel bad my numbers aren't as big" really isn't a real concern and it just goes to prove the hypocrisy of the player base because no one sitting on a destro lock is asking for a BM hunter to get a dmg increase and that just proves my damn point that this isn't a legit issue because you don't see the outcry for the people underperforming.

[Thage]

PvP balance is a particularly special shitfest this expansion. Every expansion, they somehow manage to one-up themselves on incompetent PvP design, then dial up the rewards and bribe players into it after they realize they fucked up. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the PvP team's long been getting its budget slashed because Blizzard is doing everything except what would get their PvP design back on track (fire the people in charge, promote people who know what the hell they're doing and how to actually lead a team rather than pick the guy everyone likes and promote him wildly above his competence).

'Cause, here's the thing. Holinka seems like an alright dude. Doesn't cause a lot of problems by picking fights like Afrasiabi used to, doesn't get a big head about his position, generally avoids the primadonna thing most of Blizzard's upper echelons have fallen prey to. But he's hilariously underqualified to be a team leader with this much responsibility on his head. Never mind that they expanded the scope of his duties from just PvP to class and combat design as a whole. Blizzard is going to kill itself under the weight of bloated middle/upper management if they keep trying to kick all their incompetents upstairs desperately trying to find a position where they can do the least amount of damage rather than get rid of, or at least demote, people who obviously aren't up to par for the job.

[Bigcountry11782]

The first problem there is you respect a youtuber lol

[Virothe]

The first problem there is you respect a youtuber lol

I think the first problem is that most people hate youtubers and streamers because they see the majority of them playing out of their league same with the people who out dps you, sept you can't beg a lazy corporation like blizz to nerf them specifically so because of your fragile confidence you have to rag on people that generally are outperforming you.

If any of you coming into this thread had anything legitimate to contribute to the conversation about why you're fine with the top performing dps getting nerfed but why the bottom dps who is literally still pumping out UNDER half the dps of most other top performing specs shouldn't get a buff I'm all ears.

But until then you're all just hypocrites looking to get off trying to bring down other people to soothe your own bruised egos.

[intenz]

The rogue nerfs weren't that bad. It's more the fact that they were the only grossly OP spec that got nerfed (and the only viable rogue spec) all while you have druids globalling entire teams with 3 viable specs and paladin hybrids out-healing healers. It was strangely selective like it was purely motivated from official forum reactions (most casuals only do 2v2).

Also, this tends to trigger some people, but at the elite end people generally prefer a meta where rogues are strong because it means fast control-based games. When rogues are weak the meta often degenerates into grindy dampening slogs. So that's the main reason you see a lot of high level players wanting to see subtlety on top in 3v3 (the spec was too strong in 2v2 though).

[Chucknourishlol]

Rogues were too strong in the first two weeks and the major reason why was because hp pools were so low. Doing 25k damage in an opener just happened too quick and the nerfs were valid. A bit to much, yea maybe but compared to what night fae balance druids are doing, prot paladin healing, mages unkillable status I think they over nerfed while not touching any other classes. I don't think rogues need a buff if they tone down some other classes, rogues provide a shit load of CC they dont have to bring the damage as well.

Sure Convoke can be interrupted but its very easy to hold it or get someone in a root/silence and one shot very quickly. Rogues were never criting for anything over 10k with a single ability where as balance druids can convoke and get multiple starsurge crits for 13k+ in a second. Prot paladins can generate holy power standing behind a pillar not hitting anyone and then pop a 60% hp instant no-mana heal.

One thing is that monk heals is completely fine, its barely an issue compared to the other hybrid class healing. Monks have to cast it and costs energy, paladins can spam damage and pop instant self heal for at least 50% hp until they get stun back up and then kill you in that stun.

Have you seen any other tank spec in the game even come close to prot paladin in pvp? Maybe VDH but only for RBGS.

[Kitaen]

nerfing rogue burst was fine, leaving them with zero sustain dmg and very medicore defenses was not. hence "too much"

[Ermelloth]

Because they were too much lol.
Rogues will still always have a place in 3s because of their control and setup potential, but that's about it. And in 2s their only comp is Rogue/Mage now because Fire Mages are so strong, Rogue/Healer is basically not even viable since nobody is dying to a solo Rogue since the nerfs.

This is exactly how Rogue class should work. The amount of CC they got and the ability to reset any fight cannot be paired with mongo DPS, otherwise they immediately become overtuned.

Rogues should have easy times winning a pure DPS 1vs1 in WPVP / open world and be decent in 2s (paired with other CC-heavy DPS) and good in 3s.
But they should succumb to hybrids 1vs1, not be able to kill a dedicated healer on their own and not play with a healer in 2s.

Atm they perform exactly like this. Means they are perfectly balanced (Sub, it is).
Assassination still needs buffs.

[mbit]

PvE trinkets +rogue crit leg were the root problem not the class by itself. Trinket giving 10k damage button + rogue leg giving trinket 100% crit chance in opener resulting in a guaranteed 20k hit is what gave rogues easy oneshots. They patched this so pve trinket damage is halfed in arena after 2 weeks so then it was 10k hits but 10k vs sub 30k hp targets is still over 33% from a trinket.

[Big Thanks]

Im still getting one shotted on stunlock as Demon Hunter...195 item level. 22% versatility

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Im still getting one shotted on stunlock as Demon Hunter...195 item level. 22% versatility

The guys one-shotting you are probably in 210 at least, and item level gives a ton of extra damage.

[dzd]

Demon Hunter...195 item level

195 is total trash at this point. Game is (way too) gear based atm and if you don't have 215+ as DH you are fucked.

[Big Thanks]

195 is total trash at this point. Game is (way too) gear based atm and if you don't have 215+ as DH you are fucked.

Is it really that different?
I mean...i dont have cooldowns to use on stun...and im dying insanely fast...
They have time to spare.

[intenz]

Is it really that different?
I mean...i dont have cooldowns to use on stun...and im dying insanely fast...
They have time to spare.

He's right 195 is garbage. I'm considered low geared and my pvp gear is 207. Above 1800 rating you see people at 215 or higher fairly consistently and they aren't getting solo'd by sub rogues without partner help.

Also specs that rely on needing to tank damage are pushing closer to 30% vers now. Big difference between 38k health 30% vers and 29k health 20% vers.