Bonus rolls

[gaymer77]

I haven't played a moment of Classic for a simple reason:

I am not interested in Classic.

It is obvious without you even saying that you're not interested in it based on comments in other threads about the gear issue. You want loot handed to you every single time you kill a boss because your "effort and reward should be put in" more or less what you've said. The point is the state of gear drops in Shadowlands, or any other expansion really, is far greater than it was in vanilla (aka the current classic game). People are handed loot constantly. Back then you could go almost 2 months before you saw a piece of tier gear get put into your bags because the amount of loot dropped per boss divided by the 40 people in your raid was far less than the personal loot option that can also be traded between players if they already have an equal or higher ilvl item in their possession.

[Deadmedic]

If the bonus roll was capped at once a week and it was a guaranteed drop. I would be cool with it. But they don't need to bring back the old system, it was shit.

[Terminatrix]

what is stupid is the number of item dropped each boss. i dont know how many drops in regular/heoric and mythic but LFR drops 3.....3....... for a 20 man now that is bad decision.i can get by having no rerolls but the least they could do is up the quantity dropped per boss

[Aggrophobic]

There is plenty of reward. This is only the third week now for the raid to be unlocked. There isn't a problem with obtaining gear just because you are not being showerd in drops. And on the casual end of things you have the slow trickle of the covenant set that you can upgrade.

No, the amount of rewards have been reduced to a level that makes the game feel rather annoying to play.
It was already the case outside of raids during WoD but this is the first expansion where not a single part of the game actuall feels rewarding what so ever.

Shadowlands is just a bad expansion. No way around that.

[cparle87]

They didn't need to remove bonus roll, if it was still there I think it would be fine and no I don't consider it more RNG. You want RNG? Titanforging was that even though it didn't bother me.

I saw this coming a mile away. Every expansion since they introduced bonus rolls I could see they regretted adding the system and wanted it gone. MoP you got 3 rolls per week, max 10, and once a new tier came out you could get unlimited of the old ones. WoD only had two tokens, one for HFC you were hardlocked on, and the other you could eventually buy. Legion you only had 3 and no way to get extra. BFA 2 a week and no extras.

[tru]

Badge gear... To fill in gaps from raids. God TBC can't come fast enough.

[rhorle]

No, the amount of rewards have been reduced to a level that makes the game feel rather annoying to play.
It was already the case outside of raids during WoD but this is the first expansion where not a single part of the game actuall feels rewarding what so ever. Shadowlands is just a bad expansion. No way around that.

Not rewarding to you. But the first week of LFR I already got more useful loot then I did during BfA. LFR and Mythic+ gave me lucky upgrades in 4 slots. The vault gave me another and the emissary and world boss both gave me epic conduits including one that is really useful. It is RNG but not bad rewards.

The expansion is not bad. Your enjoyment is just on the decline. There is nothing wrong with that but that sort of thing in this case isn't the fault of the game. It is the fault of your own personal expectations to be showered in rewards after only 3 weeks of raiding. What people find rewarding is subjective. Because someone people still enjoy raiding and find it rewarding even though the content has long since been on farm and there are no gear upgrades. No developer can design a game to instill that in player.

[Yarathir]

It is obvious without you even saying that you're not interested in it based on comments in other threads about the gear issue. You want loot handed to you every single time you kill a boss because your "effort and reward should be put in" more or less what you've said.

Stopped reading here. I've no interest in being involved in your debate with a strawman.

Also "prestige" of Classic gear is a joke.

[Aggrophobic]

Not rewarding to you. But the first week of LFR I already got more useful loot then I did during BfA. LFR and Mythic+ gave me lucky upgrades in 4 slots. The vault gave me another and the emissary and world boss both gave me epic conduits including one that is really useful. It is RNG but not bad rewards.

The expansion is not bad. Your enjoyment is just on the decline. There is nothing wrong with that but that sort of thing in this case isn't the fault of the game. It is the fault of your own personal expectations to be showered in rewards after only 3 weeks of raiding. What people find rewarding is subjective. Because someone people still enjoy raiding and find it rewarding even though the content has long since been on farm and there are no gear upgrades. No developer can design a game to instill that in player.

Just becuase you got lucky doesn't mean it's a good system. On average you get way, way less loot. From raids, m+ (lol), world quests, everything. You do more work, it takes more time (travel time actually eats up most of your time now) and you get less. That and there is actually less content there.
The expansion is bad, buggy, unfinnished and poorly designed.

[Yarathir]

Honestly, the fact that most supporters/defenders of the current system have to tie the removal of Titanforging together with reduced loot drop rates as an inseparable package and can't argue for reduced loot drops on its own merits says enough about it tbh.

Anyway, I don't think that reflects on the quality of the expansion as a whole. I just want it to be sorted out.

[rhorle]

Just becuase you got lucky doesn't mean it's a good system. On average you get way, way less loot. From raids, m+ (lol), world quests, everything. You do more work, it takes more time (travel time actually eats up most of your time now) and you get less. That and there is actually less content there.
The expansion is bad, buggy, unfinnished and poorly designed.

Less loot doesn't mean bad though. Showering people in loot also makes it unrewarding because most drops won't be upgrades. There is not less content. It doesn't take more time or really more work. Travel time is for the most part trivial except for the few parts of zones that have no flight paths like Bastion. But it still doesn't take that long. There are not that many bugs. It isn't unfinished. There are not that many things poorly designed.

Again you are no longer interested in the game based on all of your comments here. Instead of realizing your interested is declining you call the game bad. Blizzard can't make you more interested if you don't want to be.

[Morg]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

I miss coins, however, I'd much prefer a 1 coin system that couldn't be saved week per week and it gave you 100% chance off of a boss' loot table to help you chase down that one item you want.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Just becuase you got lucky doesn't mean it's a good system. On average you get way, way less loot. From raids, m+ (lol), world quests, everything. You do more work, it takes more time (travel time actually eats up most of your time now) and you get less. That and there is actually less content there.
The expansion is bad, buggy, unfinnished and poorly designed.

Its not a badly designed expansion, it just needs some extra bad luck protection in raid drops.

[Yarathir]

Less loot doesn't mean bad though. Showering people in loot also makes it unrewarding because most drops won't be upgrades.

Meanwhile, most people I've talked to hate this because not only have they gotten far less loot, the little loot they've had has also been useless to them.

rEwArDiNg

- - - Updated - - -

Its not a badly designed expansion, it just needs some extra bad luck protection in raid drops.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of people are claiming this makes the expansion bad.

But it's not a black/white "expansion flawless/expansion bad, need fix" situation. An expansion can be good and still be in need of adjustments.

[Garymorilix]

Raids and M+ mostly.
M+, not so much anymore becuase why bother?

I also do quests sometimes.

Be more specific. What level of raiding and M+ are we talking? Quite important to be detailed when we are talking about a reward structure.

[justflayin]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

You guys really have to figure out what side of the gearing fence you want to sit on. In BFA it was too much. Now after only a couple weeks of the raid being open you’re upset your character isn’t fully kitted out.

[Aggrophobic]

I also do quests sometimes.

Be more specific. What level of raiding and M+ are we talking? Quite important to be detailed when we are talking about a reward structure.

I do my +14 but now thats just once a week.
The dungeons themselves are just a waste of time. I find that a bit sad though. I used to quite like them.

- - - Updated - - -

Its not a badly designed expansion, it just needs some extra bad luck protection in raid drops.

So yeah, more rewards.

[Yarathir]

You guys really have to figure out what side of the gearing fence you want to sit on. In BFA it was too much. Now after only a couple weeks of the raid being open you’re upset your character isn’t fully kitted out.

Almost like it isn't black or white.

Almost like the biggest issue with gearing in BfA was the fact that even if you got loot, you still had to keep farming for more to get it to Titanforge.

Almost like you're just building up a strawman of a single hivemind that holds two contradictory views in order to score a cheap 'gotcha' on a group of people that either doesn't exist or is neglibly tiny.

[kenn9530]

You always got items at the end of the week and even so, the vault will take you some 20+ weeks for a full set of gear, if you're lucky.
The point is, there is not enough reward for the very little content Shadowlands actually has.

It's unfinnished and poorly thought out.

You can be swimming in gear if you want, there is plenty chances to get loot, time a run 2 items will drop so make a run where a few others wear the same gear and in 5-6 mythic plus everyone in the group will have at least 2 items, gear should not be easy to get if you dont at least put in some effort, raid drops 30 items per week, it doesnt matter how long it takes to get geared anyway as it is only a means to make content easier thats it plain and simple.

[Baroclinic]

I never had a problem with BFA gearing. I remember getting atleast 1 drop every other run. Heck, I could go backwards in hopes of a rare chance of a forge.

Now, I run places on heroic like 10 times because mythic gives me diddly. Even feel dumber because they give me as good, if not better gear, with my honor. What was the point of heroics and mythics?