Bonus rolls

[Aggrophobic]

You can be swimming in gear if you want, there is plenty chances to get loot, time a run 2 items will drop so make a run where a few others wear the same gear and in 5-6 mythic plus everyone in the group will have at least 2 items, gear should not be easy to get if you dont at least put in some effort, raid drops 30 items per week, it doesnt matter how long it takes to get geared anyway as it is only a means to make content easier thats it plain and simple.

What are you talking about? Why Would I want gear from mythic +?
It does matter how long it takes to get gear. Getting better gear is the main reward for doing content in WoW. When you are no lonfger rewarded then content becomes pointless or just not fun.

Shadowlands is just not fun.

[Yarathir]

What are you talking about? Why Would I want gear from mythic +?
It does matter how long it takes to get gear. Getting better gear is the main reward for doing content in WoW. When you are no lonfger rewarded then content becomes pointless or just not fun.

Shadowlands is just not fun.

It's also a problem with Torghast. You go through your weekly chore hoping you get good anima RNG.. for what? Soul Ash. But otherwards, there's little it offers if you're not a pet collector. That in turn just makes it not fun to plod through for a lot of people.

[kenn9530]

What are you talking about? Why Would I want gear from mythic +?
It does matter how long it takes to get gear. Getting better gear is the main reward for doing content in WoW. When you are no lonfger rewarded then content becomes pointless or just not fun.

Shadowlands is just not fun.

There is plenty ways to get gear, also WoW has always been something where you were not guaranteed to get anything let alone an upgrade and the gameplay loops are still the same, if your not doing mythic plus or even raiding then you have even less chance to get loot and thats your choice.

[Garybear]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

I feel like the raid is too hard when comparing what you get out of it. I feel like you should be getting a much higher ilv piece from it to compare with the m+ or pvp rewards. This is not related to bonus rolls at all though.

[Kaver]

Now that people have been able to clear CN at least twice (more if you play multiple difficulties), can we agree that this was a bad idea?

I just ran all of CN and got ONE item, which of course, was an item I already had. That plus the bad itemization overall in CN, makes it feels like the time spent raiding is sorta wasted.

I fear that despite Castle Nathria being a good raid with fun bosses and a nice aesthetic, players will become frustrated with the raid simply because of the lacklusterness in character progression.

It’s just about getting used to it and set expectations. Currently you think it’s unacceptable that you only get 1 item from a raid clear but that’s because you are used to be showered in gear. The scarcity of gear is complete fine and players just need to accept that’s how it is. If it filters out all the toxic loot h*rs then it’s just a bonus.

[kenn9530]

I feel like the raid is too hard when comparing what you get out of it. I feel like you should be getting a much higher ilv piece from it to compare with the m+ or pvp rewards. This is not related to bonus rolls at all though.

Its still going to take you just as long to clear content even if you are showered with loot so it doesnt matter at all if you get geared up slowly or fast

[kamuimac]

Its supposed to take a few months to gear up properly, previous expansions just handed you loot left and right and it just makes things boring

its idiotic idea though

people who care clear both difficulties at 190-195 - and then what ? then they can unsub because nobody sane will go through this week after week for no reward.

they would have to be extreme masochists to do it.

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What are you talking about? Why Would I want gear from mythic +?
It does matter how long it takes to get gear. Getting better gear is the main reward for doing content in WoW. When you are no lonfger rewarded then content becomes pointless or just not fun.

Shadowlands is just not fun.

and this is the main sin of SL.

even WoD feels better then SL - because it at least rewarded your efforts in raids. SL doesnt.

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Almost like it isn't black or white.

Almost like the biggest issue with gearing in BfA was the fact that even if you got loot, you still had to keep farming for more to get it to Titanforge.

Almost like you're just building up a strawman of a single hivemind that holds two contradictory views in order to score a cheap 'gotcha' on a group of people that either doesn't exist or is neglibly tiny.

you didnt.

nobody sane farmed TF in BfA.

it must have taken special kind of OCD to do so .

i literaly dont know even a single person in game who would actively farm TF.

only place where such people exist is this forums.

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You guys really have to figure out what side of the gearing fence you want to sit on. In BFA it was too much. Now after only a couple weeks of the raid being open you’re upset your character isn’t fully kitted out.

its easy - BfA has vastly supperior gearing model.

end of story .

SL is unfun garbage.

[kaminaris]

Yet people love classic and the raid drops over there, hmmmm. I say it's less a problem about Shadowlands, but more of the illusion of a problem created by the over abundance of gear being shoved down our throats for the past few years (which was the real problem all along imo).

And if one acts like a schmuck to me he/she shall be treated like a schmuck. If the tone changes so will mine

Because classic end-content difficulty is not even close to what we have now. So it doesn't matter how poor your gear is, you can still clear everything as opposed to shit we have now.

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You are being rewarded for the content you do, but you should still never get so much loot you dont know what to do with it, gear should never be the main reason for playing, gear is just a means to make content easier.

No. Gear enables you to do the content, not makes it easier. What you said may have been true in Classic, TBC and maybe wotlk, cata an onwards? No.
Now? Not even remotely close.

[Ticj]

I don't like the new system at all.

I have not found a single piece of gear in CN normal, and just one in raid finder (sidegrade).
Weekly chest gave me an item for a slot where I already had a legendary.

I have raised my equip by maybe 2 ilvl in the course of the week and I still have rare quality bracers. I used to be very involved with gearing and staying ahead of the curve, but now, not anymore. What is the point in that? My shitty ilvl is a mix of me finding the same slot all the time and of me not finding any loot at all. I could skew the ratio a bit in my favour if I played for ten hours a day, as to have more and more chances at getting loot, but that's not really a solution.

I lost my drive to gear up, something I usually lost after decking out in at least heroic raid gear. It is just not worth the hassle. If loot comes my way by raiding with the guild, that's fine. If loot doesn't come because of a weird ass system where the game decides that my efforts must be repayed with 35 anima, that's also fine. Not worth stressing over it.

Bro if you're not able to get a piece of gear from your weekly chest that is an upgrade then you're doing something wrong. Did you only kill one raid boss and do 0 mythic+ or something? If that's the case then why are you even surprised you're not able to get better gear?

[kaminaris]

Bro if you're not able to get a piece of gear from your weekly chest that is an upgrade then you're doing something wrong. Did you only kill one raid boss and do 0 mythic+ or something? If that's the case then why are you even surprised you're not able to get better gear?

And what do you expect from normal players? To have fully decked weekly bingo lottery? No, they only get 2-4 lottery tickets. That is the reality.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nope, I do not agree that loot raining from everywhere but only a few pieces being useful and it being considered absolute shite tier if not titanforged, was a better idea. I'll take fewer pieces where an upgrade is actually an upgrade, thanks.

But then I don't play for the gear, I view it as a tool, not the goal.

[kenn9530]

No. Gear enables you to do the content, not makes it easier. What you said may have been true in Classic, TBC and maybe wotlk, cata an onwards? No.
Now? Not even remotely close.

No it makes content easier, as the content is meant to be done in lower gear than it rewards as mythic raids could not be completed in anything less than 226/233 itemlevel otherwise and heroic and normal raids can be done in much less gear as proven right now since they are cleared all the time in less than 200 ilvl easy.

Its very easy to get gear if you put in some effort.

[Ticj]

And what do you expect from normal players? To have fully decked weekly bingo lottery? No, they only get 2-4 lottery tickets. That is the reality.

The man is acting like he full cleared castle nathria and didn't get anything. Doing that and at the very least one mythic+ the entire week would give him four options. If he is only killing one raid boss and and doing not even 1 mythic+ in the week then he honestly doesn't have a right to complain about not getting gear.

[ohwell]

bonus rolls would give me at least another chance to get anything worthwhile out of a dungeon. you enter in m+, pelt your way through mobs for 30-45 minutes, receive your 35 anima and a bit of gold and (not directly perceivable) +1 something in some great vault which may or may not be a disappointment in one to six days.

it wouldn't have hurt to have some sort of JP/VP currency return so that you would be able to, let's say, open some orb which contains one item of all eligible items from one dungeon you did. but no, now i have to spend every minute doing stuff whilst holding out on playing other characters or even games. did for or five m+ back to back on saturday and always got my 35 anima. nothing else. wait, that's wrong. there WAS a quest for a 213 item, but that isn't the norm.

If they made anything that you're currently lacking when it comes to jp/vp it would be jp that gives access to heroic level items. The vault gives you WAY more than VP ever did hence VP is completely not needed. There is more than enough in terms of gearing from mythic and beyond. We're barely a month in and people seem to think they should have a full set of like 200 ilvl from m2 runs. I'm fairly sure valor wasn't that farmable in the past. You got like 1 item a week if that just like you do now much less the drops outside of raids were worse than today.

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The man is acting like he full cleared castle nathria and didn't get anything. Doing that and at the very least one mythic+ the entire week would give him four options. If he is only killing one raid boss and and doing not even 1 mythic+ in the week then he honestly doesn't have a right to complain about not getting gear.

These people seem to think valor was farmable or something too when it was definitely not. Justice points gave gear on par with heroics which I have no issue if they want to make that a thing. However, this idea that valor points should come back is ludicrous when you're actually getting more gear now than you did when they were a thing.

[kaminaris]

Yeah because THAT'S the reason people have hailed Vanilla wow as the be all end all of mmorpg design and the epitome of gaming

Damn goalposts are in another state at this point goodness me.

Yeah, you moved goalpost yet again. It doesn't matter what people said about vanilla. That was a fact that vanilla didn't have hard content and gear wasn't stopping you in any way.

So bringing up vanilla to recent expansion is completely pointless when you compare loot systems.

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No it makes content easier, as the content is meant to be done in lower gear than it rewards as mythic raids could not be completed in anything less than 226/233 itemlevel otherwise and heroic and normal raids can be done in much less gear as proven right now since they are cleared all the time in less than 200 ilvl easy.

Its very easy to get gear if you put in some effort.

Heroic and normal has been irrelevant for good couple of expansions now so I don't know why are you even comparing easy mode to actual end-content. You know, the one that has all mechanics.

Its like saying gear makes world quests easier because you can kill mobs faster.

Now when you look at item level that both echo and limit had on Sire Denaturatus (220) and how tight that fight was you will understand what I am talking about.
Then you can imagine your typical guild world ~500 having considerably less skill so they will require more gear.

Typical guild will get to 220 ilvl in 2-3 months but that prolly won't be enough to down entire mythic unless bosses will get nerfed hard.

[GreenJesus]

This system is already 100% better because it doesn't require you to pay gold each week to buy tokens.

[kaminaris]

The point going over your head does not mean I moved goalposts... The drop rate of gear is roughly the same as it was in vanilla to now. And when vanilla was recent the bosses were alive a helluva lot longer than a week as mythic was. We are in what week 4 of the raid? Raids, when current content, took months to get down finally (due to gear a lot of the time) and that design has been hailed as the epitome of mmorpg design for the past 15 years in case you've been living under a rock or something.

Hell vanilla has been hailed to such a high degree for such a long period of time Classic was developed and release, to further showcase my point.

TLDR: it's week 4 stop crying and gear up. Hell my paladin is 200 ilvl and Im casual as hell. I even skipped a week of raiding/torgast

No because you didn't make cohesive point. You only basically took half of the equation and presented it as whole thesis.

Now let me explain it to you with real world example.

Jonny B makes $2000 bucks a month, but used to make $2500 bucks a month so his situation is worse now!
Well no. To actually evaluate his living comfort you need to take into consideration his previous living expenses compared to current ones. Such as apartment fees, travel-to-work time and distance, debts and so on.

Now the reality is Jonny wasn't retarded after all and calculated his living expenses properly. He moved from big city that had costly living, changed job that was far away from his apartment so he cut down his living expenses and time travel in half. Which overall changed his situation for better.


So it makes absolutely no sense to compare vanilla droprates without taking into consideration master loot, crafted gear and hell, even quest reward items.
It also doesn't make sense to compare easy content of vanilla to what we have now. Gear did not stop you there. (Neither did skill lol)

What people say about it, is completely irrelevant because they like overall chill design. Not JUST reduced droprates.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Bro if you're not able to get a piece of gear from your weekly chest that is an upgrade then you're doing something wrong. Did you only kill one raid boss and do 0 mythic+ or something? If that's the case then why are you even surprised you're not able to get better gear?

I am progressing through Nathria with my guild. I have stopped pugging raids because it's a terrible experience. We are talking 10+ bosses that gave me absolutely no loot at all in a row.
I try to run as many M+ as I can and I will have 2 slots to choose from this week's Great Vault. I don't care about pvp because I cannot stand it.

I have 2-3 (or 4 on a very active week) pieces to choose from and due to the atrocious droprates they will most likely be the only thing pushing me forward in ilvl. If all the pieces are for slots that I already have, and we are talking like 3 gear pieces, then I virtually get nothing at all.

I would rather have bonus rolls and expend them whenever I feel I need a specific piece. Now I don't even have the slightest assurance of getting something because of this mangled drop rate.
One change I would absolutely like to see is removing the anima drop from bosses. Getting nothing for a whole evening is insulting enough, I don't need to see that for my efforts I was awarded a whopping 35 anima.

[kenn9530]

Heroic and normal has been irrelevant for good couple of expansions now so I don't know why are you even comparing easy mode to actual end-content. You know, the one that has all mechanics.

Its like saying gear makes world quests easier because you can kill mobs faster.

Now when you look at item level that both echo and limit had on Sire Denaturatus (220) and how tight that fight was you will understand what I am talking about.
Then you can imagine your typical guild world ~500 having considerably less skill so they will require more gear.

Typical guild will get to 220 ilvl in 2-3 months but that prolly won't be enough to down entire mythic unless bosses will get nerfed hard.

Most guilds will only struggle on mythic bosses because they lack skill, no amount of gear in that raid tier can make up for lack of skill, the raid has been cleared in less gear than it rewards and players are not in BiS gear, just proves gear is only there to make content easier and thats a fact.

If a guild struggles to kill bosses in 220 ilvl then having BiS wont really change much at all because skill matters more.

[Garybear]

Its still going to take you just as long to clear content even if you are showered with loot so it doesnt matter at all if you get geared up slowly or fast

I generally stop playing after my character is fully geared, not after I clear a specific amount of content.