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  1. #21
    Fun thing from our HC run a few days ago, healing officer is telling me to use my Revival for next incoming dmg burst,.. I do and about 1 second after I do, the Shammy healer in the guild says "I'll follow up with a CD after monk's revival if needed".... The healing officer goes "lol, that was it, he used it!", I sigh and the shammy goes "Oh LOL ok I do mine".

    Last edited by Dawon; 2020-12-23 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Shamans spent the entire last expansion bottom of the barrel. Let em have their moment.
    And Mistweavers spent the entire last two expansions as the worst healer. When is our moment going to happen?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Furthermore, Mistweaver is literally third best healer DPS, so you're again just complaining about not being OP. Mistweaver is maybe the most balanced healer in the game.
    This is a highly misleading statement. Yes, monks do the third most dps... they do half of what a disc priest does and slightly more than a druid and shammy. It's like if you had 5 people, two had a million dollars, you had 100 dollars, and the other two had 99 dollars, and you're saying, "Well you're in third place!"

    The truth is still obvious - mediocre/low damage, mediocre throughput, bad cds.

    Lol if you look at warcraftlogs on Inerva Darkvein mythic right now, it's pretty hilarious.

    73 shammies
    57 pallies
    39 disc priest

    TWO restoration druid
    TWO holy priest
    ONE mistweaver

    I guess the poster above would say, "Druids are fine, they're in 4th place on inerva!"
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-12-28 at 02:05 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    This is a highly misleading statement. Yes, monks do the third most dps... they do half of what a disc priest does and slightly more than a druid and shammy. It's like if you had 5 people, two had a million dollars, you had 100 dollars, and the other two had 99 dollars, and you're saying, "Well you're in third place!"

    The truth is still obvious - mediocre/low damage, mediocre throughput, bad cds.

    Lol if you look at warcraftlogs on Inerva Darkvein mythic right now, it's pretty hilarious.

    73 shammies
    57 pallies
    39 disc priest

    TWO restoration druid
    TWO holy priest
    ONE mistweaver

    I guess the poster above would say, "Druids are fine, they're in 4th place on inerva!"
    This is all some mental gymnastics. Disc isn't actually ahead in DPS at all, the reason they're top healer DPS is because they can spend the entire fight DPSing, while other healers have to give up healing to DPS at all, with one exception - Mistweaver.

    Plus, representation is an entirely separate issue. Monk is the least popular class.

    Monk is not the healer that needs buffs the most, simple as that. You calling something that isn't true "obvious" doesn't make it so.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    This is all some mental gymnastics. Disc isn't actually ahead in DPS at all, the reason they're top healer DPS is because they can spend the entire fight DPSing, while other healers have to give up healing to DPS at all, with one exception - Mistweaver.

    Plus, representation is an entirely separate issue. Monk is the least popular class.

    Monk is not the healer that needs buffs the most, simple as that. You calling something that isn't true "obvious" doesn't make it so.
    You're right that disc isn't the top dps, pally is. And both are miles, miles ahead of mistweaver. It's not "mental gymnastics" - it's just true. You can't argue that monk has good dps when they do half of disc, less than half of what pally does, and slightly beat shammy and druid.

    And I'm confused about what I said that you claim isn't true: I said mistweaver does mediocre/low dps (true), mediocre throughput (true), and has bad cds (true).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    You're right that disc isn't the top dps, pally is. And both are miles, miles ahead of mistweaver. It's not "mental gymnastics" - it's just true. You can't argue that monk has good dps when they do half of disc, less than half of what pally does, and slightly beat shammy and druid.

    And I'm confused about what I said that you claim isn't true: I said mistweaver does mediocre/low dps (true), mediocre throughput (true), and has bad cds (true).
    Right, so because Mistweaver is only 3rd out of 6, they're bad and "need help". Gotcha. Your issue is that you're not OP, but Blizzard (as well as anyone sensible) is never going to buff someone for the sole purpose of being OP. Reroll like the other people who complain about that.
    Last edited by Segus1992; 2020-12-28 at 03:31 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Right, so because Mistweaver is only 3rd out of 6, they're bad and "need help". Gotcha. Your issue is that you're not OP, but Blizzard (as well as anyone sensible) is never going to buff someone for the sole purpose of being OP. Reroll like the other people who complain about that.
    Again, 3rd out of 6 is SUPER misleading (and it's actually 4th out of 6, holy priest is usually beating it). Here are the numbers, just to pick a random fight, I looked at Shriekwing mythic (can't look at any later bosses because there are no mistweavers):

    Holy paly: 871 dps
    Discipline: 833 dps
    Holy priest: 342
    Mistweaver: 294
    Resto Shammy: 250
    Resto Druid: 216

    Mistweaver is ahead of last place by 80, and is nearly 600 behind first place paladin. It's low. DPS is not a strength of mistweaver, "mediocre/low" is an accurate representation. Got it yet?

    My argument is that mistweaver has no strengths. Damage is not a strength. Their throughput is fine and on par with other healers, but no one cares about that, and they have terrible utility because revival is extremely weak. They are just not strong at anything, and overall that makes them pretty bad. I'd also argue that just looking at throughput overstates how much mistweaver does because they have no damage reduction abilities, where disc, paladin, druid, and shaman all have some damage reduction built into their kit, and also their throughput is usually dependent on getting external mana cooldowns where in contrast, shammy and holy priest have mana cooldowns that give mana to other healers.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-12-28 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #28
    Sorry for kinda-necroing this topic, but since my question fits the content of the video OP has quoted in his opening post, I thought I'd ask here. Also, I found some answers very insightful and they had me agree.

    [TL;DR] Here's my question: Should you (constantly) be meleeing as a Mistweaver? If not, what it the highest form of content to realistically be expecting to be able to play like that as a Mistweaver?

    Let me explain. I would like to play as a Mistweaver. That's right, not a Fistweaver. And in the video that's been referred to, the guys basically talks about how much he loves Fistweaving for minutes. Well, that's not me. I LOVE the healing as a Monk though, like no other healer. It just feels great. What I don't like? Melee. I know, that maybe sounds stupid coming from a Monk player. I like how Windwalker plays in open world content and all. I just don't like end-game content as a melee class, at all. I won't go into detail on why here, because I think it doesn't really belong here.
    What I would like to know is: Am I stupid expecting to be able to play at least Heroic raids on a Mistweaver while expecting to do little to no damage? Hell, I would love to see Crackling Jade Lightning have any means of existence other than its hint at what Mistweaver should have been (for me). I'm basically playing him like a ranged classe, and it feels right to me.

    (BTW, I know the class is considered to be melee for some mechanics like the chains on Sludgefist. Of course I would adjust to all that.)

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    And Mistweavers spent the entire last two expansions as the worst healer. When is our moment going to happen?
    Literally broke warcraft logs at the near-end of BFA. There you have it. xD

  10. #30
    High Overlord Nuniqt's Avatar
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    Current gaming culture and "healing theory" would say you should try to do as much as you can to help the encounter. If you can meet the healing requirement, do mechanics so DPS don't have to or try to add dps for a faster kill. That being said, if you want to try playing your way there are examples out there of high level players doing just that:

    Here is an example I randomly found on Warcraftlogs of a monk doing Mythic Huntsman and a phenomenal amount of healing with relatively no dps: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing

    This guy does like 90 dps the whole fight (which is obviously low). But he carried more than his share of the weight healing. If you can be this guy for your raid team no one should give you shit about your dps numbers.

    If you want more examples of high level mistweavers, go on warcraft logs and look at the top parses for each fight where the legendary being used is Tear of Mourning. Those guys typically run the mist build and do much less dps. Emulate their playstyle and you should be fine.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    and slightly beat shammy and druid.
    thats not even the case. In a pure dps rotation on target-dummy my monk does 1720dps (217 ilvl) while my rshaman does 1850dps (192 ilvl). Mind you i actually main kickweaver so the monk gear is opted for dps (dodging mastery for haste) while the shaman is randomly equipped for ilvl.

    The reason you dont see rshamans doing decent dps in logs is not because they cant. Its because they dont gain any healing from it so they rarely do it in progression content. They also have quite nice cleave dotting which further increases lavaburst procs on they primary target.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Phala View Post
    thats not even the case. In a pure dps rotation on target-dummy my monk does 1720dps (217 ilvl) while my rshaman does 1850dps (192 ilvl). Mind you i actually main kickweaver so the monk gear is opted for dps (dodging mastery for haste) while the shaman is randomly equipped for ilvl.

    The reason you dont see rshamans doing decent dps in logs is not because they cant. Its because they dont gain any healing from it so they rarely do it in progression content. They also have quite nice cleave dotting which further increases lavaburst procs on they primary target.
    I was referring to what they actually do on bosses... mistweaver does dps passively while healing, resto druid doesn't, so that's a slight advantage of mistweaver. But yeah, totally agreed that mistweaver dps is horrendous.

  13. #33
    From what I've heard regarding Mistweavers in PVE, is that their HPS isn't necessarily bad (it's on par), rather they don't bring any utility that makes them better than other healers who have good utility.

    Regarding PVP (my main focus) Mistweavers are complete crap. The mana regen buff doesn't change the fact that we can get globalled in a DR'd stun. Buffing our cocoon PVP Talent is a very obscure buff too considering it's not always ideal to run that talent in the first place.

    Dying in a stun with cocoon off CD doesn't change anything.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuniqt View Post
    Current gaming culture and "healing theory" would say you should try to do as much as you can to help the encounter. If you can meet the healing requirement, do mechanics so DPS don't have to or try to add dps for a faster kill. That being said, if you want to try playing your way there are examples out there of high level players doing just that:

    Here is an example I randomly found on Warcraftlogs of a monk doing Mythic Huntsman and a phenomenal amount of healing with relatively no dps: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing

    This guy does like 90 dps the whole fight (which is obviously low). But he carried more than his share of the weight healing. If you can be this guy for your raid team no one should give you shit about your dps numbers.

    If you want more examples of high level mistweavers, go on warcraft logs and look at the top parses for each fight where the legendary being used is Tear of Mourning. Those guys typically run the mist build and do much less dps. Emulate their playstyle and you should be fine.
    If you actually look at his healing, most of his time is spent afk spinning/essence font. It’s how he manages his mana lol... cuz he has to lol. There are several points where he’s doing nothing but letting spin tick XD

    Which is kinda funny cuz that’s exactly how I play MW - it’s not worth it to do anything else... mana wise.

  15. #35
    So apparently according to the front page we get a slight mana adjustment - renewing mists went from 2.1% to 1.8% base mana. Meh.

    This reminds me of playing guardian druid last xpac. First patch, everyone knew they were really bad, next patch, extremely slight buff. Like 2 patches later, finally HUGE buffs and we were fine. But it just takes them too long to adjust.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    So apparently according to the front page we get a slight mana adjustment - renewing mists went from 2.1% to 1.8% base mana. Meh.

    This reminds me of playing guardian druid last xpac. First patch, everyone knew they were really bad, next patch, extremely slight buff. Like 2 patches later, finally HUGE buffs and we were fine. But it just takes them too long to adjust.
    this is simply another tactic to create FOTM classes which keeps the hamsters on the wheel that much longer. Blizz has unfortunately been doing this for, what is about to be, decades.
    balance would have people swapping mains less, which are the populace that no-lifes the game. the wheels must turn.

  17. #37
    This argument that MWs is fine is silly.

    HPal, Disc and Shaman have better utility, HPal and Disc have better damage, HPal and Shaman have better healing, metrics at hand. And this is significant because MW does comparable healing, but not better.

    Can you play it? Yes. Does it have a niche or a unique strength? Sadly, no.
    And with the game and raids especially getting constantly designed with cooldowns in mind and heavy raid damage, you're probably not hampering your group's progress by playing one, but community perception in these cases matter and you are weaker no matter the narrative around it.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    This argument that MWs is fine is silly.

    HPal, Disc and Shaman have better utility, HPal and Disc have better damage, HPal and Shaman have better healing, metrics at hand. And this is significant because MW does comparable healing, but not better.

    Can you play it? Yes. Does it have a niche or a unique strength? Sadly, no.
    And with the game and raids especially getting constantly designed with cooldowns in mind and heavy raid damage, you're probably not hampering your group's progress by playing one, but community perception in these cases matter and you are weaker no matter the narrative around it.
    This applies to every healer that isn’t one of the chosen 3 - including holy priest. I still advocate that holy be given the ONLY targetable power infusion so people have a reason to being it over disc. But that’s another topic.

    Anyways, they need to tone down the healer of the big 3– and Paladin has both utility and damage - for Minimal mana at that.

    A big problem I have with mist weaver is they even decided to have mana costs in all of the covenants - significant costs - except NL.

  19. #39
    You're missing the best part of the log. Take a look at mana for healers over the course of the fight.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by User0015 View Post
    You're missing the best part of the log. Take a look at mana for healers over the course of the fight.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...rces&spell=100

    thats just sad

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