Mistweavers need help!

[FuujCraft]

Hey guys,

Mistweavers are in a weird spot right now. They are pretty much the only Healer without a raid benefit. This video really sums it up. I hope that they get some kind of attention soon.

[Segus1992]

Mystic Touch and a raid-wide dispel (and instant heal) doesn't count anymore? Coulda fooled me. Life Cocoon might not be Guardian Angel, but it also isn't useless, even in Mythic raids.

[FuujCraft]

Mystic touch can be brought into the raid more easily with a brewmaster (which is fantastic at the moment) and revival is just not as strong as a shamas spirit link or any other utitly it brings on top of output. On top of that they have mana issues that other classes don't have.

[Tommi]

Mystic Touch and a raid-wide dispel (and instant heal) doesn't count anymore? Coulda fooled me. Life Cocoon might not be Guardian Angel, but it also isn't useless, even in Mythic raids.

That's also not even including yu'lon. Unfortunatly, people don't seem to know how to use her right. Getting an innervate whilst popping yu'lon and going to town with enveloping breath healing is just funny.

[Tommi]

On top of that they have mana issues that other classes don't have.

Only if you don't know how to manage mana. Mistweaver has very high sustain healing which is balanced by high mana use. Learn to control mana, and use the right spells is key to MW.

[Segus1992]

How often is a raid wide dispel actually useful? And revival’s heal is very low. Compare to shammy which has three good raid cool downs. That’s one of those niche abilities that they don’t expect every raid to have so they don’t design encounters around it and it’s effectively useless.

Re: mystic touch, that’s a crutch to keep one monk in the raid. I’d rather play a class that is designed well enough to make it in on its own, and (gasp) even have more than 1 sometimes because it’s good!

As is mistweaver has the worst cooldowns of any healer, it’s the most mana hungry healer, throughput is mediocre, and its dps is lower than disc and pally. It’s shockingly, stunningly bad.

I haven't done Nathria yet, but saying Revival is useless is silly. Literally does twice as much healing as Healing Tide does over its 10 second duration, and it's instant. The dispel is just a bonus, but it's invaluable when it's needed.

Plus, you're comparing to the one healer with literally the strongest raid utility of them all (Resto Shaman) - why not compare to Holy Paladin (Sacrifice, BoP, auras)?

If you'd rather play another class, then go ahead. Mistweaver is fine though.

As for throughput being mediocre, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...y=4&metric=hps are you literally saying you need to be higher than top 3 to be good enough?

[Tommi]

Key part of that statement highlighted.

Why are we the one healer whose kit seems to be built around requiring innervate to do good throughput?

Because it's a team effort? Healing teams should support each others weaknesses and strengths.

[Tommi]

As is mistweaver has the worst cooldowns of any healer,

Debatable.

it’s the most mana hungry healer,

For a reason. MW sustain healing/cleave healing is amazing. The balance of that is higher mana costs. Renewing Mist being a smart heal for vivify cleaves is amazing imo.

throughput is mediocre,

I keep up pretty well with our resto shaman and druids.

and its dps is lower than disc and pally.

Healer, not a dps.

It’s shockingly, stunningly bad.

Matte rof opinion tbh.

[Segus1992]

It is mediocre. The ranking might show it in 3rd place, but it’s barely above the other classes that bring far more utility. It’s also massively below shaman, and because close to 40% of mythic healers are shammies at this point, it’s obviously not in a good spot throughput wise.

Right, so the issue is that Shaman is overpowered, because Mistweaver is actually above the healers with comparable utility and as such is doing just fine.

[Segus1992]

Comparable utility? Where?

Was my post too long to read? Holy Paladin. Resto Druid is another, and let's not even mention Holy Priest. Why should Mistweaver get buffed when there are other healers that are worse off?

[Tommi]

I mean, every healer could use more mana. Why give it to the shitty mistweaver when you can give it to the shammy who’s blasting? Sure, if you give it to the mistweaver how is that more beneficial than giving it to the shaman?

Are you saying that every time you have a mistweaver in the raid, you must also have a Druid there to innervate them? What other class works like that? It’s crazy.

Umm, Yu'lon. If you had any idea of how much healing you can push out when you have yu'lon up, with an innervate? As I said, too many mistweavers have no idea how the fuck yu'lon, and chi'ji, works.

Enveloping Breath
Requires Monk (Mistweaver)
Requires level 58
While active, Yu'lon and Chi'Ji heal up to 6 nearby targets with Enveloping Breath when you cast Enveloping Mist, healing for [(30% of Spell power) * 6 / 1] over 6 sec, and increasing the healing they receive from you by 10%.

Pop yu'lon, get an innervate, spam enveloping mists, laugh in HPS. The whole reason you ask for an innervate is so you can spam EM's into people. It turns yu'lon into an actual raid cooldown. Best part of it is it's a smart heal. All you need to do is target the tank/melee for HPS lols.

This is all assuming you're mistweaving and not kickweaving. If you're kickweaving and having mana issues, then I dunno wtf to tell you except stop spamming EF on cd. Learn how kickweaving works and L2P.

[Segus1992]

Resto Druid has ironbark (arguably better than cocoon), and several strong raid CDs. Holy pally has much stronger cds including bop and does better dps. Yes, holy priest is bad too.

Ironbark is comparable to Cocoon for sure, better in some cases (on a tank for a high damage section), worse in others (oh-shit button to save a life). Tranquility is very much comparable to Revival, and that's all they have. Saying "several" doesn't make it so.

Holy Paladin does have stronger throughput CDs, true. They also have strong DPS. But stronger utility? No. BoP is decent, Sac is comparable to Ironbark and therefore Cocoon. They also have no raidwide CDs, which matters a lot more in raids. BoP + Aura Mastery vs Revival and Mystic Touch. Holy Paladin wins on some fights, Mistweaver wins on others.

Furthermore, Mistweaver is literally third best healer DPS, so you're again just complaining about not being OP. Mistweaver is maybe the most balanced healer in the game.

[Tommi]

Ironbark is comparable to Cocoon for sure, better in some cases (on a tank for a high damage section), worse in others (oh-shit button to save a life). Tranquility is very much comparable to Revival, and that's all they have. Saying "several" doesn't make it so.

Holy Paladin does have stronger throughput CDs, true. They also have strong DPS. But stronger utility? No. BoP is decent, Sac is comparable to Ironbark and therefore Cocoon. They also have no raidwide CDs, which matters a lot more in raids. BoP + Aura Mastery vs Revival and Mystic Touch. Holy Paladin wins on some fights, Mistweaver wins on others.

Furthermore, Mistweaver is literally third best healer DPS, so you're again just complaining about not being OP. Mistweaver is maybe the most balanced healer in the game.

If we're gonna use BoP and Sac as cd's, Monk also has Ring of Peace and Tiger's Lust, a CC that can be used on ANY kind of target with Paralysis.....

[kiramon]

Shamans spent the entire last expansion bottom of the barrel. Let em have their moment.

Anyways, shamans will always be highly represented when people are under geared trying to do content because they’re loaded with utility. When people can outgear things they’ll be less represented.

In the mean time, poor monks.

[Segus1992]

If we're gonna use BoP and Sac as cd's, Monk also has Ring of Peace and Tiger's Lust, a CC that can be used on ANY kind of target with Paralysis.....

Not really relevant for a healer in raids in the vast majority of cases (Tiger's Lust is fine, but it's not by any means a major addition to Mistweaver's kit). BoP has uses, and Sacrifice is almost as strong as Pain Suppression but with the added damage sharing aspect. Mistweaver is fine, but let's not exaggerate - they're not OP either.

[Dawon]

Fun thing from our HC run a few days ago, healing officer is telling me to use my Revival for next incoming dmg burst,.. I do and about 1 second after I do, the Shammy healer in the guild says "I'll follow up with a CD after monk's revival if needed".... The healing officer goes "lol, that was it, he used it!", I sigh and the shammy goes "Oh LOL ok I do mine".

[anon5123]

Shamans spent the entire last expansion bottom of the barrel. Let em have their moment.

And Mistweavers spent the entire last two expansions as the worst healer. When is our moment going to happen?

[Segus1992]

This is a highly misleading statement. Yes, monks do the third most dps... they do half of what a disc priest does and slightly more than a druid and shammy. It's like if you had 5 people, two had a million dollars, you had 100 dollars, and the other two had 99 dollars, and you're saying, "Well you're in third place!"

The truth is still obvious - mediocre/low damage, mediocre throughput, bad cds.

Lol if you look at warcraftlogs on Inerva Darkvein mythic right now, it's pretty hilarious.

73 shammies
57 pallies
39 disc priest

TWO restoration druid
TWO holy priest
ONE mistweaver

I guess the poster above would say, "Druids are fine, they're in 4th place on inerva!"

This is all some mental gymnastics. Disc isn't actually ahead in DPS at all, the reason they're top healer DPS is because they can spend the entire fight DPSing, while other healers have to give up healing to DPS at all, with one exception - Mistweaver.

Plus, representation is an entirely separate issue. Monk is the least popular class.

Monk is not the healer that needs buffs the most, simple as that. You calling something that isn't true "obvious" doesn't make it so.

[Segus1992]

You're right that disc isn't the top dps, pally is. And both are miles, miles ahead of mistweaver. It's not "mental gymnastics" - it's just true. You can't argue that monk has good dps when they do half of disc, less than half of what pally does, and slightly beat shammy and druid.

And I'm confused about what I said that you claim isn't true: I said mistweaver does mediocre/low dps (true), mediocre throughput (true), and has bad cds (true).

Right, so because Mistweaver is only 3rd out of 6, they're bad and "need help". Gotcha. Your issue is that you're not OP, but Blizzard (as well as anyone sensible) is never going to buff someone for the sole purpose of being OP. Reroll like the other people who complain about that.

[Klaphood]

Sorry for kinda-necroing this topic, but since my question fits the content of the video OP has quoted in his opening post, I thought I'd ask here. Also, I found some answers very insightful and they had me agree.

[TL;DR] Here's my question: Should you (constantly) be meleeing as a Mistweaver? If not, what it the highest form of content to realistically be expecting to be able to play like that as a Mistweaver?

Let me explain. I would like to play as a Mistweaver. That's right, not a Fistweaver. And in the video that's been referred to, the guys basically talks about how much he loves Fistweaving for minutes. Well, that's not me. I LOVE the healing as a Monk though, like no other healer. It just feels great. What I don't like? Melee. I know, that maybe sounds stupid coming from a Monk player. I like how Windwalker plays in open world content and all. I just don't like end-game content as a melee class, at all. I won't go into detail on why here, because I think it doesn't really belong here.
What I would like to know is: Am I stupid expecting to be able to play at least Heroic raids on a Mistweaver while expecting to do little to no damage? Hell, I would love to see Crackling Jade Lightning have any means of existence other than its hint at what Mistweaver should have been (for me). I'm basically playing him like a ranged classe, and it feels right to me.

(BTW, I know the class is considered to be melee for some mechanics like the chains on Sludgefist. Of course I would adjust to all that.)