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  1. #181
    So many tears.. once in ten years ret isnt pile of dog shit and everybody is crying like little kids.
    Other classes like rogue or mage are broken every expansion and nobody bats an eye.

    Boo hoo i once got killed by ret boo hoo! nerf nerf nerf!

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by uncl55 View Post
    So many tears.. once in ten years ret isnt pile of dog shit and everybody is crying like little kids.
    Other classes like rogue or mage are broken every expansion and nobody bats an eye.

    Boo hoo i once got killed by ret boo hoo! nerf nerf nerf!
    are you casually forgetting all the crying about rogue at launch until nerf or you're delusional?

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ermelloth View Post
    Meanwhile Fire Mage keeps being completely retardedly broken. At least before WoG nerf I had a chance to survive vs. this abomination, now it's absolute GG
    I think WoG nerf was certainly needed, however our survivability is shit considering that 1) we have no mobility and 2) Divine Shield can be dispelled relatively quickly if you are good. Hell I would be fine with further WoG/Healing Hands nerf if our mobility was boosted further. It does make it a fun meta when we sacrifice DPS throughput for survivability with strong WoG heals though, I mean it makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    are you casually forgetting all the crying about rogue at launch until nerf or you're delusional?
    Rogues are still viable though compared to some other classes and equally represented in both brackets. They did need a nerf but again it's iLVL problem and the legendary tuning that needs/ed adjustments.
    -K

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Rogues are still viable though compared to some other classes and equally represented in both brackets. They did need a nerf but again it's iLVL problem and the legendary tuning that needs/ed adjustments.
    Yeah they are, that's not the issue. What I find... funny is this idea that 'oh for once X spec is retarded so let it be completely broken for a whole season', which is one of the most ridiculous logic I've heard. But i'm 100% sure people who say that play such spec. Especially coupled with arguments like 'no one cries when rogues/mages/blabla is op' when it's actually just not true. Everybody complained about rogues for example, hence the nerf. And I've not met anyone saying mage combust isn't op (except people playing mage ofc but it's the same issue I just wrote about)

  5. #185
    Oh buhu. Death Knight complaining about high damage numbers. Hah.

    No, seriously, im in favor of the bubble debuff for ret. Not sure if it needs one otherwise.
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

    Victim to Blizzard-Marketing since 2004

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    Yeah they are, that's not the issue. What I find... funny is this idea that 'oh for once X spec is retarded so let it be completely broken for a whole season', which is one of the most ridiculous logic I've heard. But i'm 100% sure people who say that play such spec. Especially coupled with arguments like 'no one cries when rogues/mages/blabla is op' when it's actually just not true. Everybody complained about rogues for example, hence the nerf. And I've not met anyone saying mage combust isn't op (except people playing mage ofc but it's the same issue I just wrote about)
    Paladins aren't that retarded compared to others. Only barely in top5. Sub rogues are still better and higher ranked than retries even after their nerf. In RBGs sub rogues are still completely insane.
    Paladins could use a nerf ye, but so too many others.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    Yeah they are, that's not the issue. What I find... funny is this idea that 'oh for once X spec is retarded so let it be completely broken for a whole season', which is one of the most ridiculous logic I've heard. But i'm 100% sure people who say that play such spec. Especially coupled with arguments like 'no one cries when rogues/mages/blabla is op' when it's actually just not true. Everybody complained about rogues for example, hence the nerf. And I've not met anyone saying mage combust isn't op (except people playing mage ofc but it's the same issue I just wrote about)
    Classes are strong, but I wouldn't call them "OP". Combined with iLVL which varies per match. Thing is, while Combustion is strong, so is Convoke and so are Affi locks which don't have to cast just dot that causes CONSTANT pressure unlike 2min CD spells. These 2min spells can be removed and countered if you see it on, however MAJORITY of players are pretty bloody shocking all the way until 2K rating.
    -K

  8. #188
    yeah there are other classes that need a nerf (i wouldn't include affliction lock in there tho) besides paladin and several spells need balancing, we all see it clearly. All this include paladin's ridiculous healing in both tank and ret spec. I think we can stop with the whataboutism now as this thread is about paladin thx
    Last edited by Molov; 2021-01-28 at 09:06 AM.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    Paladins aren't that retarded compared to others. Only barely in top5. Sub rogues are still better and higher ranked than retries even after their nerf. In RBGs sub rogues are still completely insane.
    Paladins could use a nerf ye, but so too many others.
    Like I said, WoG healing is strong. I play ret/rogue/lock classes and WoG heals are frustrating. However damage? Nope easy to deal, sure I can get clapped for 10k to 15k during wings but would I be retarded enough to let them have the use of wings. I can also CC the fuck out of the pally and slap him just as hard when I can restealth 24/7

    I get clapped just as hard by rets, boomies, ferals, other rogues, MAGES, enhance/ele and MMs specially when they are i220+

    On my Ret I crit 7k to 11k on equally geared targets. Seems fair to me. Anything over and its targets below my item level (usually about 10 points).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    yeah there are other classes that need a nerf (i wouldn't include affliction lock in there tho) besides paladin and several spells need balancing, we all see it clearly. All this include paladin's ridiculous healing in both tank and ret spec. I think we can stop with the whataboutism now as this thread is about paladin thx
    Its strong, its not ridiculous when you have lack of mobility and tankyness. Paladins are squishy fuckers. Hell one opener on my rogue and they are below 50 and I can reset much easier. If you keep bringing up, people will keep talking about it thx. Also nerf for WoG already landed so wag gwan G.

    Affi isn't OP but deals just as much damage as other classes.
    Last edited by Mister K; 2021-01-28 at 09:16 AM.
    -K

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Its strong, its not ridiculous when you have lack of mobility and tankyness. Paladins are squishy fuckers. Hell one opener on my rogue and they are below 50 and I can reset much easier. If you keep bringing up, people will keep talking about it thx.

    Affi isn't OP but deals just as much damage as other classes.
    Paladin's lack of tankiness (i. e mitigation besides 1 invincibility, 2 vs melees) is compensated by far by having the best offhealing in the game (talking like, almost LoH oneself every 15-20 seconds). Locks are fine yeah, nothing to complain about but nothing to sniff at.

    I don't understand: what do i keep bringing up? Talking about other classes? You got it backwards my dude, I'm answering to one guy (while adressing to several) saying 'yeah but X is also busted so go nerf him, for once we are OP let us be' that it won't change the fact that paladin needs(ed?) balancing. Plus your first answer to my post about rogues completely missed the point, I wasn't talking at all about viability. I'm not even sure if you're really reading what i'm typing.
    Last edited by Molov; 2021-01-28 at 09:28 AM.

  11. #191
    If you're a Holy Paladin that enjoys ranked PvP and not kyrian, after the DF change you're boned.
    Nice "memeingful choice". :-)

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    Oh buhu. Death Knight complaining about high damage numbers. Hah.

    No, seriously, im in favor of the bubble debuff for ret. Not sure if it needs one otherwise.
    Yeah, because it makes Rets soooo stronk. Rets are actually really squishy. That's why top arena Rets are often running with a Prot legendary - it gives them another survivability ability. Do you think they'd be doing that if bubble was really all that?
    Last edited by Kalisandra; 2021-01-28 at 10:55 AM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    Paladin's lack of tankiness (i. e mitigation besides 1 invincibility, 2 vs melees) is compensated by far by having the best offhealing in the game (talking like, almost LoH oneself every 15-20 seconds). Locks are fine yeah, nothing to complain about but nothing to sniff at.

    I don't understand: what do i keep bringing up? Talking about other classes? You got it backwards my dude, I'm answering to one guy (while adressing to several) saying 'yeah but X is also busted so go nerf him, for once we are OP let us be' that it won't change the fact that paladin needs(ed?) balancing. Plus your first answer to my post about rogues completely missed the point, I wasn't talking at all about viability. I'm not even sure if you're really reading what i'm typing.
    Overstatement, I do not LOH myself on my ret every 15-20 seconds. The heals are 30% to 90% of my health pool which is similar to Feral/Shammies and we sacrifice damage. If I am constantly off healing in 2s until wings are ready, I am not putting out pressure. Once again you are banging this drum of "OP" yet its far from truth. Like the other poster from the other thread, the representation in 2s and 3s likes to differ (2.1k to 3.4k ladder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    I don't understand: what do i keep bringing up? Talking about other classes? You got it backwards my dude, I'm answering to one guy (while adressing to several) saying 'yeah but X is also busted so go nerf him, for once we are OP let us be' that it won't change the fact that paladin needs(ed?) balancing. Plus your first answer to my post about rogues completely missed the point, I wasn't talking at all about viability. I'm not even sure if you're really reading what i'm typing.
    You are constantly banging the same drum over and over. You get addressed with reasoning and you just go around in circles "yeh OP classes bruh" like jeez man everything feels OP at 1.5k with ilvl200 to ilvl210 if you are at that rating.

    Paladins needed adjustments and they got it. What else are you crying about. If you simply cannot win vs Ret teams, I would suggest amending your setups/tactics because believe me, it is not hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Yeah, because it makes Rets soooo stronk. Rets are actually really squishy. That's why top arena Rets are often running with a Prot legendary - it gives them another survivability ability. Do you think they'd be doing that if bubble was really all that?
    I have been thinking of running Kings too, maybe this week.
    -K

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    Paladin's lack of tankiness (i. e mitigation besides 1 invincibility, 2 vs melees) is compensated by far by having the best offhealing in the game (talking like, almost LoH oneself every 15-20 seconds). Locks are fine yeah, nothing to complain about but nothing to sniff at.

    I don't understand: what do i keep bringing up? Talking about other classes? You got it backwards my dude, I'm answering to one guy (while adressing to several) saying 'yeah but X is also busted so go nerf him, for once we are OP let us be' that it won't change the fact that paladin needs(ed?) balancing. Plus your first answer to my post about rogues completely missed the point, I wasn't talking at all about viability. I'm not even sure if you're really reading what i'm typing.
    If you do decide to heal every 15-20sec that means you do close to 0 dps...
    In 2v2 ret paladins aren't even at top10, they suck hard. In 3v3 until 2700+ rating they are barely in top5, only with very best teams they are top3.
    When there's many more disgustingly OP specs it's sad Blizz nerfs the new guy barely hanging there.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    Overstatement, I do not LOH myself on my ret every 15-20 seconds. The heals are 30% to 90% of my health pool which is similar to Feral/Shammies and we sacrifice damage. If I am constantly off healing in 2s until wings are ready, I am not putting out pressure. Once again you are banging this drum of "OP" yet its far from truth. Like the other poster from the other thread, the representation in 2s and 3s likes to differ (2.1k to 3.4k ladder).
    The issue has been clearly defined across this post, it's the balance between how much a hybrid spec can do, and rets do (did?) both a bit too well at the same time, particularly healing. You even recognized it a few posts ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    You are constantly banging the same drum over and over. You get addressed with reasoning and you just go around in circles "yeh OP classes bruh" like jeez man everything feels OP at 1.5k with ilvl200 to ilvl210 if you are at that rating.

    Paladins needed adjustments and they got it. What else are you crying about. If you simply cannot win vs Ret teams, I would suggest amending your setups/tactics because believe me, it is not hard.
    Nah, i get addressed by paladins mains who are just being dishonest with the state of their spec (until yesterday) to the point of saying 'we're super meta for once in 10 years let us be pls' and completely denying that there is (was?) an issue with how well they perform, for example just check Cara's performances in AWC. Let alone prot paladins. That's not reasoning. But it's always the same when talking to people who main the discussed class, don't worry it's not you particularly. It was exactly the same with rogues at launch, and it's the same when talking with boomy mains about convoke

    They got their healing reduced yeah, haven't tried how it is now. I'm mostly talking about the way they were like... until yesterday.

    Not sure if you're trying to roast or troll but sorry to disappoint you i'm not stuck at 1.5k and I have no issue with paladins in arena. It's just that paladins were not balanced, you recognized it. That's it. But hopefully they are fine now.
    Last edited by Molov; 2021-01-28 at 11:42 AM.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    The issue has been clearly defined across this post, it's the balance between how much a hybrid spec can do, and rets do (did?) both a bit too well at the same time, particularly healing. You even recognized it a few posts ago.



    Nah, i get addressed by paladins mains who are just being dishonest with the state of their spec (until yesterday) to the point of saying 'we're super meta for once in 10 years let us be pls' and completely denying that there is (was?) an issue with how well they perform, for example just check Cara's performances in AWC. Let alone prot paladins. That's not reasoning. But it's always the same when talking to people who main the discussed class, don't worry it's not you particularly. It was exactly the same with rogues at launch, and it's the same when talking with boomy mains about convoke

    They got their healing reduced yeah, haven't tried how it is now. I'm mostly talking about the way they were like... until yesterday.

    Not sure if you're trying to roast or troll but sorry to disappoint you i'm not stuck at 1.5k and I have no issue with paladins in arena. It's just that paladins were not balanced, you recognized it. That's it. But hopefully they are fine now.
    What we are going to see is people still complaining because they are simply poor at the game. People complain about the damage yet they are 10-20 ilvls behind, people complain about the healing (and that I do not disagree with) and seen you complain somewhere in this thread about divine steed / freedom and then Ret clapping you for 20K with TV. What's your iLVL, 210 vs 220+ Rets?

    Feral self healing is also quite strong but they get bear form. It's not pre-nerf strong as WoG but its strong.
    Shammies is good too.

    All these classes/specs have better survivability and abilities to control the game much more than Rets do.

    and I am not trying to cry about WoG being nerfed, but any further nerfs and we need buffs elsewhere. Which is fine for 3s, I rather not try and off-heal half the games.

    It's just too funny to see people complain about the damage when its so easily avoidable. When they do learn how to play, that argument is replaced by something else.
    -K

  17. #197
    feral self healing should get buffed

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    What we are going to see is people still complaining because they are simply poor at the game. People complain about the damage yet they are 10-20 ilvls behind, people complain about the healing (and that I do not disagree with) and seen you complain somewhere in this thread about divine steed / freedom and then Ret clapping you for 20K with TV. What's your iLVL, 210 vs 220+ Rets?

    Feral self healing is also quite strong but they get bear form. It's not pre-nerf strong as WoG but its strong.
    Shammies is good too.

    All these classes/specs have better survivability and abilities to control the game much more than Rets do.

    and I am not trying to cry about WoG being nerfed, but any further nerfs and we need buffs elsewhere. Which is fine for 3s, I rather not try and off-heal half the games.

    It's just too funny to see people complain about the damage when its so easily avoidable. When they do learn how to play, that argument is replaced by something else.
    Not talking about low rating because everything works <1800 basically, just check the AWC matches where people make little to no mistakes and skill level are pretty much the highest. Never seen that many rets. And i'm not even mentioning Drainerx winning as pal prot which is hilarious and disgusting at the same time. Rets might be fine now, not sure. But there always will be people complaining so it's not that important. It's when a looot of people start complaining about something that it might be worth looking at, like prot paladins.

    Feral and shamans are not that bad it's true. Yet in AWC there is a pretty much similar amount of elem shamans and rets, and the 2 feral comps got immediately knocked out of the AWC because they are just no match to comps like ret/war/rsham. So you might think feral has better survivability and CC, but they are just inferior in the highest level of gameplay in teamplay, unlike paladins overall. In the end i'm not sure if you're realizing how good ret because paladin has so much tools to assist his teammates and have a huge burst

    Not sure if you're addressing me, but you're not quite getting it again, i'm 218 Ilvl and ret (who is not likely to be much higher than me) damage is still really strong. But, as I've said like 4 times now but ok : it's not the damage itself, it's the amount of damage AND healing that is disturbing, from both, ret and prot. Especially prot, it's an absolutely ridiculous spec, it's the first time in more than a decade that we see a tank in the AWC. And AWC players are not 'poor at the game'
    Last edited by Molov; 2021-01-30 at 04:13 AM.

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