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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    You just can't compete with the high dmg output and self healing.

    10k verdict crits? give me a break
    No, you can't compete. The rest of us are quite capable of adapting, spend your time learning to counter instead of crying.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    No, you can't compete. The rest of us are quite capable of adapting, spend your time learning to counter instead of crying.
    You crying that i am crying though..

  3. #163
    im not sure why you're complaining im a ret paladin 200 ilvl pvp and i got hit by a DH horde for 24k and he just finished me off with 1 more button, how is this even possible? LOL

  4. #164
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godmyster View Post
    im not sure why you're complaining im a ret paladin 200 ilvl pvp and i got hit by a DH horde for 24k and he just finished me off with 1 more button, how is this even possible? LOL
    Demon Hunters have horrific damage outside of The Hunt. So you got hit for a lot of damage, big deal. Doesn't change the fact that Ret Paladins do stupid amounts of damage by rolling their face across their keyboard.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Well, the yammering masses got their wish - WoG is being nerfed in PvP. Not nerfed for some specs, or when in combination with some other power or talent, but just plain nerfed. Given that Ret (and Prot) is already not over-performing at high ratings, this is not good for Ret.

    Hope the haters are happy.
    it was stupid seeing 800K+ WOG healing from a DPS class at the end of each match in AWC. So nerfs had to happen.
    But don't worry, Rets are still going to be top tier choice in Arena.
    When we looked at the relics of the precursors, we saw the height civilization can attain.
    When we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height.
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  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Demon Hunters have horrific damage outside of The Hunt. So you got hit for a lot of damage, big deal. Doesn't change the fact that Ret Paladins do stupid amounts of damage by rolling their face across their keyboard.
    so let me get this straight from your comment its alright for a DH to hit me for 24k but a ret cant do it? ya that makes sense

  7. #167
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godmyster View Post
    so let me get this straight from your comment its alright for a DH to hit me for 24k but a ret cant do it? ya that makes sense
    Rets do it more consistently with spells that have shorter cooldowns than the hunt and don't have cast times. I play a ret paladin, bud. Either paladins need to be tuned down or everyone else needs to be tuned up.

    I was putting out more consistent damage on my undergeared paladin than my 200 ilvl rogue. It's not even worth trying to defend.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    Just to throw this out there...no Ret teams won EU or NA AWC...so, uh...
    this isnt rly a good metric to go by,remember early wrath?ret was WAY more insane than it is now,and there were no ret teams there either in WC,a class can still be rly strong vs low to mid tier players(like 90% atleast of the population),but still be useless vs more dominant high skillcap comps that can control them good

  9. #169
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Rets do it more consistently with spells that have shorter cooldowns than the hunt and don't have cast times. I play a ret paladin, bud. Either paladins need to be tuned down or everyone else needs to be tuned up.

    I was putting out more consistent damage on my undergeared paladin than my 200 ilvl rogue. It's not even worth trying to defend.
    1) Ret damage is not overtuned considering fire, sub, balance, ww, MM, affi all do extremely strong burst. Then you have warriors, enhance, ele, spriest who do good enough damage, mostly have good mobility and defensives. OVERALL burst being high, TTK low which is causing most dumb players cry out in theirs when they are getting spanked in there 10% vers gear.
    2) Ret healing is strong, with the recent nerf it takes care of it, maybe could be reduced further or changing the Healing Hands talent but we then need more mobility. Could rework Healing Hands or alternatively sprint on Judgment over Healing Hands and leave WoG as is.

    How is this true? Well, look at leaderboards. No, not sub 2K but above. You don't see many Rets.

    You reduce damage and take majority of self healing abilities away and you are stuck with a class with 0 mobility and defensives that cannot compete. Problem is giving 1800 to 2100 rating different iLVLs that can shit on players who are 10+ iLVLs below. The upgraded gear should be available at 1500 to 1600 (as is) and that's it. Then 2.2K should reward 233 weapons but even that's a push.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    this isnt rly a good metric to go by,remember early wrath?ret was WAY more insane than it is now,and there were no ret teams there either in WC,a class can still be rly strong vs low to mid tier players(like 90% atleast of the population),but still be useless vs more dominant high skillcap comps that
    can control them good
    So you balance game to low rated players? This is the reason WoW is like it is today. You balance mid/high tiers not low tiers where people will loose to poor classes like DKs and DHs right now (both which are "meh" atmo).

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    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    it was stupid seeing 800K+ WOG healing from a DPS class at the end of each match in AWC. So nerfs had to happen.
    But don't worry, Rets are still going to be top tier choice in Arena.
    Subjective. How long was the match? No, Rets are not top tier choice. WoG was indeed powerful but its due to Healing Hands. Could be nerfed further but then give us mobility to balance it out as right now, you can kite Ret. Ret is squishy as fuck anyway.


    HOW TO BEAT RET - In 3 easy steps:
    1. Focus and force bubble in first 30 seconds.
    2. Play defensive/kite.
    3. Go for kill second go around. Can't survive till then? Get better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Demon Hunters have horrific damage outside of The Hunt. So you got hit for a lot of damage, big deal. Doesn't change the fact that Ret Paladins do stupid amounts of damage by rolling their face across their keyboard.
    So the lack of abilities should make Rets do less damage. Most melee is "face across their keyboard" gameplay. Outside of 2minutes, Rets damage is just about passable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chilblains View Post
    anyone who claims ret is fine and not OP should kill themselves

    in game ofc /s

    imagine justifying 15k templar's verdict. this forum is truly retarded.
    Stop being bad then because that damage is just about standard. Crying when getting spanked due to iLVL differences. LOL!
    -K

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    I'm calling BS on this one, even with every CD up and Final Reckoning there's no way you're going to do 21k to another player, not even on a training dummy.
    I have 36K HP and was killed in 2 hits from a Ret so I will go right along with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    The damage i can soak as a DH and in the arena it was fine, but the damage and nearly to full healing all the time is kinda fucked up
    It is just plain dumb it pisses me off almost as much as being perm CC'd.

  11. #171
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I have 36K HP and was killed in 2 hits from a Ret so I will go right along with this.
    I mean probably got slapped with Divine Toll proc and Final Verdict? HP means nothing, what's your versatility, I would like a screenshot. Also it's all subjective, gear is everything and root of major problems in current state of PVP/Arenas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    almost as much as being perm CC'd.
    If you are perma-CCd you are playing the game wrong.
    -K

  12. #172
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    1) Ret damage is not overtuned considering fire, sub, balance, ww, MM, affi all do extremely strong burst. Then you have warriors, enhance, ele, spriest who do good enough damage, mostly have good mobility and defensives. OVERALL burst being high, TTK low which is causing most dumb players cry out in theirs when they are getting spanked in there 10% vers gear.
    2) Ret healing is strong, with the recent nerf it takes care of it, maybe could be reduced further or changing the Healing Hands talent but we then need more mobility. Could rework Healing Hands or alternatively sprint on Judgment over Healing Hands and leave WoG as is.

    How is this true? Well, look at leaderboards. No, not sub 2K but above. You don't see many Rets.

    You reduce damage and take majority of self healing abilities away and you are stuck with a class with 0 mobility and defensives that cannot compete. Problem is giving 1800 to 2100 rating different iLVLs that can shit on players who are 10+ iLVLs below. The upgraded gear should be available at 1500 to 1600 (as is) and that's it. Then 2.2K should reward 233 weapons but even that's a push.
    Looking at the US leaderboards I'm counting five ret paladins in the top 20 of the 3v3 bracket and are tied for most represented spec with fire mages. "You don't see many Rets" isn't a comment based in fact.
    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Looking at the US leaderboards I'm counting five ret paladins in the top 20 of the 3v3 bracket and are tied for most represented spec with fire mages. "You don't see many Rets" isn't a comment based in fact.
    Found 2 rets.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ga...aderboards/3v3
    -K

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Rets do it more consistently with spells that have shorter cooldowns than the hunt and don't have cast times. I play a ret paladin, bud. Either paladins need to be tuned down or everyone else needs to be tuned up.
    Lets see this plethora of overpowered ret paladins in arena charts, eh?

    Last time I looked, there were like 2 rets in the top 50 and the rest were holy.
    Also, man I wish we had some long running stats that showed what class/spec people played in their match history.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2021-01-26 at 03:58 PM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    I mean probably got slapped with Divine Toll proc and Final Verdict? HP means nothing, what's your versatility, I would like a screenshot. Also it's all subjective, gear is everything and root of major problems in current state of PVP/Arenas.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are perma-CCd you are playing the game wrong.
    Ive got 17% Vers. I am fine getting plain wrecked, I don't mind that at all, but the fact that they can just insta heal form dead to full 30 times in a fight is just plain dumb design. The other thing that is just plain dumb is being perma CC'd or not being able to close the gap on my RP walking DK is just plain unfun.

  16. #176
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Ive got 17% Vers. I am fine getting plain wrecked, I don't mind that at all, but the fact that they can just insta heal form dead to full 30 times in a fight is just plain dumb design. The other thing that is just plain dumb is being perma CC'd or not being able to close the gap on my RP walking DK is just plain unfun.
    They are not the only DPS that can heal relatively high, but yes WoG is strong, specially if you are off-healing in 3s on top of the healer. But you are sacrificing DPS for healing.

    Also 17% vers at this point is very low/middle ground to mitigate damage.
    -K

  17. #177
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    There is a limit to the success of conservative populism and the exploitation of "little guy" or "silent majority" rhetoric, and it is very often reached because of the emaciated, corrupted personalities of the demagogues themselves.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  18. #178
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    So now we have a discrepancy 50/50, does US ladder automatically = accurate class balance metric? Lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Looking at the US leaderboards I'm counting five ret paladins in the top 20 of the 3v3 bracket and are tied for most represented spec with fire mages. "You don't see many Rets" isn't a comment based in fact.
    Between 2150 to R1 for 3v3 USA:
    519 Fire
    467 Arms
    381 Spriest
    339 Rets
    301 Sub
    263 Balance
    257 WWs
    162 Ele
    150 DK
    129 MM
    114 Enhance
    106 Feral
    101 Affi
    59 DH

    Now there are variables such as overall population of the classes and synergy, but that does not take away from the fact anything past WW needs looking into. Like I said, WoG is strong, the damage isn't. WoG (Healing Hands) is the reason for higher than usual representation of Ret in Arena which currently everyone is hating since not being viable for a long time. Then iLVL being the reason for crazy damage across variety of classes.

    iLVL = everything

    EDIT:

    Additional Class represeantations for 2s, 3s globally:

    https://www.pvpleaderboard.com/statistics/2v2/
    https://www.pvpleaderboard.com/statistics/3v3/
    Last edited by Mister K; 2021-01-26 at 04:14 PM.
    -K

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    You just can't compete with the high dmg output and self healing.

    10k verdict crits? give me a break
    Seems like a learn to play issue to me, can you give more insight why paladins need a nerf? What was your versa at the time, what gear did you have vs the Paladin? You do know that Paladins have the most telegraphed burst in the game, you know those golden wings = bad, run away/kite/cc. Please by all means ask for adjustments, but make it constructive, don't just post "10k vedict crits".

  20. #180
    Brewmaster Ermelloth's Avatar
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    Meanwhile Fire Mage keeps being completely retardedly broken. At least before WoG nerf I had a chance to survive vs. this abomination, now it's absolute GG

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