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  1. #1

    Is only one of the Covenant Campaigns canon?

    So as someone who has 4 capped characters, 1 in each of the 4 covenants - I get to notice some oddities as I am currently almost up to par on all of them (Necrolords is still a bit behind) and after this week's Venthyr Covenant campaign I got some questions that I was hoping someone here could help me answer, the main one being the very title of the post;

    Is only one of the four Covenant campaigns suppose to be the canon one?

    It may seem odd to say this but here's what made me wonder; The Kyrian Covenant Campaign Chapter 4 sees the Maw Walker assist Mikanikos with retrieving Phaestus, Genesis of Aeons; A special hammer found at the Eternal Forge which upon arrival; is under Forsworn control. Ofc we save the day and clear out the forge so that the Kyrians can re-claim it and so that Mikanikos can finish crafting the Crest for which he needed the previously named hammer.

    Now before moving on; I would like to mention that yes ofc for replayability purposes there can spawn a World Quest at the Eternal Forge which sees you clear out Forsworn but I do not really include World Quest action in the "streamline story"

    Moving on to this week's Venthyr Campaign; Chapter 6 - The Crowned Prince sees the Maw Walker venture to Bastion with General Draven and Theotar. They need the help of the Forgelite Prime - Mikanikos himself; to craft a Crown that can hold all the medallions which the Maw Walker has assisted Prince Renathal in retrieving. But here come's the issue...

    Now suddenly the Eternal Forge is under Forsworn control and Mikanikos does not seem to act as if it ever was in their possession. It is as if THIS is the moment in time that the Eternal Forge is freed of the Forsworn's control. But that also seems to be odd considering that:

    There is already NPC's in the game that refers to the players as "Maw Walkers" <- Not the s. Maw WalkerS. The world itself acknowledges that we are not just "The Champion / This Champion" - There is multiple Maw Walkers and they have committed to that. So there is no Maw Walker helping out in Bastion? Since if so; then surely the Eternal Forge should not be under Forsworn control given the actions done 2 weeks prior in the Kyrian covenant? Or at the very least Mikanikos should have spoke of how they have lost dominion over the forge, again...

    Also while speaking of this; Is Denathrius defeated at this point of time in lore? His interactions during this weeks Venthyr covenant campaign makes it seem like he is already taken care off? So I suppose opposed to how it was sometimes before; that the world / story for YOU would not acknowledge a raid boss's defeat unless you completed the quest TO defeat them; now a raid boss is canonically considered dead / defeated upon release? It just caught me off guard as Renathal or well... Anyone else for that matter has yet to hand a quest with a story tie-in which would imply that Denathrius is already delt with.

    So... Can anyone clear this one up? Is all Covenant campaigns canon and are achieved by multiple Maw Walkers or is just one suppose to be canon? As there is points in the games that goes to show either one COULD be the case.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexxgrim View Post
    <text>
    The problem is that you're trying to treat a multiple choice story as a linear one. It isn't, and the attempt will necessarily fail.

    Treat it more like a legend of which multiple, sometimes conflicting, versions exist. Nobody can tell for sure which one is correct, but everybody agrees there was a hero that did some important stuff and probably saved The World™ from Certain Destruction®.

    Only the stuff common to every story is truly canon, the rest is only going to be referred to in vague terms out of game.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    The Voice of what her face? The Arbiter npc tells you when you choose a covenant other Heroes of Azeroth chose different covenants from your choice.

    Lore wise if they ever release it in a new chronicles like book. It would mostly likely state many heroes ventured into Shadowlands to aid it. And that they all chose different covenants to aid.

  4. #4
    @Rexxgrim

    Lore wise it's stated that there's many champions from azeroth that have escaped the maw. Those champions have joined different covenants. The story isn't about a single maw walker but many.
    “In Shadowlands, the player's character becomes known as a Maw Walker, though this is not a singular title; fictionally, a number heroes of Azeroth like yourself have demonstrated the ability to enter and leave the Maw. We want a sense that it will take many heroes working together and strengthening all four covenants if there is to be any hope of achieving victory over the Jailer.”


    Kyrestia the Firstborne: Agreed. For the good of the Shadowlands, each mortal must choose a covenant.
    Last edited by tommyhil622; 2020-12-24 at 05:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    The Voice of what her face? The Arbiter npc tells you when you choose a covenant other Heroes of Azeroth chose different covenants from your choice.

    Lore wise if they ever release it in a new chronicles like book. It would mostly likely state many heroes ventured into Shadowlands to aid it. And that they all chose different covenants to aid.
    Multiple mortals, but only one Maw Walker. Of course, that'll just result in confusing reports of which one exactly was the Maw Walker. Intentionally confusing reports, that is. Just like nobody can get straight whether the Champion of Azeroth was Horde or Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    @Rexxgrim

    Lore wise it's stated that there's many champions from azeroth that have escaped the maw. Those champions have joined different covenants. The story isn't about a single maw walker but many.
    That's not actually being shown in the game, though. There's only one Maw Walker and a bunch of other mortals that come in after the Ebon Blade opens portals from Oribos. So saying "lore wise it's stated" is actually incorrect, the lore says there's only one Maw Walker. The PC is referred to as the Maw Walker, not a Maw Walker.

  6. #6
    Obviously the Night elf convenant because Ally perspective is always canon

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Multiple mortals, but only one Maw Walker. Of course, that'll just result in confusing reports of which one exactly was the Maw Walker. Intentionally confusing reports, that is. Just like nobody can get straight whether the Champion of Azeroth was Horde or Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's not actually being shown in the game, though. There's only one Maw Walker and a bunch of other mortals that come in after the Ebon Blade opens portals from Oribos. So saying "lore wise it's stated" is actually incorrect, the lore says there's only one Maw Walker. The PC is referred to as the Maw Walker, not a Maw Walker.
    Yea and in Bastion and Revendreth npcs call you "a maw walker".... so there is more than one. So no the lore doesn't "always" refer you to "the".

    And in an interview with Dan...

    “In Shadowlands, the player's character becomes known as a Maw Walker, though this is not a singular title; fictionally, a number heroes of Azeroth like yourself have demonstrated the ability to enter and leave the Maw. We want a sense that it will take many heroes working together and strengthening all four covenants if there is to be any hope of achieving victory over the Jailer.”
    Last edited by tommyhil622; 2020-12-24 at 01:13 PM.

  8. #8
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexxgrim View Post
    So as someone who has 4 capped characters, 1 in each of the 4 covenants - I get to notice some oddities as I am currently almost up to par on all of them (Necrolords is still a bit behind) and after this week's Venthyr Covenant campaign I got some questions that I was hoping someone here could help me answer, the main one being the very title of the post;

    Is only one of the four Covenant campaigns suppose to be the canon one?

    It may seem odd to say this but here's what made me wonder; The Kyrian Covenant Campaign Chapter 4 sees the Maw Walker assist Mikanikos with retrieving Phaestus, Genesis of Aeons; A special hammer found at the Eternal Forge which upon arrival; is under Forsworn control. Ofc we save the day and clear out the forge so that the Kyrians can re-claim it and so that Mikanikos can finish crafting the Crest for which he needed the previously named hammer.

    Now before moving on; I would like to mention that yes ofc for replayability purposes there can spawn a World Quest at the Eternal Forge which sees you clear out Forsworn but I do not really include World Quest action in the "streamline story"

    Moving on to this week's Venthyr Campaign; Chapter 6 - The Crowned Prince sees the Maw Walker venture to Bastion with General Draven and Theotar. They need the help of the Forgelite Prime - Mikanikos himself; to craft a Crown that can hold all the medallions which the Maw Walker has assisted Prince Renathal in retrieving. But here come's the issue...

    Now suddenly the Eternal Forge is under Forsworn control and Mikanikos does not seem to act as if it ever was in their possession. It is as if THIS is the moment in time that the Eternal Forge is freed of the Forsworn's control. But that also seems to be odd considering that:

    There is already NPC's in the game that refers to the players as "Maw Walkers" <- Not the s. Maw WalkerS. The world itself acknowledges that we are not just "The Champion / This Champion" - There is multiple Maw Walkers and they have committed to that. So there is no Maw Walker helping out in Bastion? Since if so; then surely the Eternal Forge should not be under Forsworn control given the actions done 2 weeks prior in the Kyrian covenant? Or at the very least Mikanikos should have spoke of how they have lost dominion over the forge, again...

    Also while speaking of this; Is Denathrius defeated at this point of time in lore? His interactions during this weeks Venthyr covenant campaign makes it seem like he is already taken care off? So I suppose opposed to how it was sometimes before; that the world / story for YOU would not acknowledge a raid boss's defeat unless you completed the quest TO defeat them; now a raid boss is canonically considered dead / defeated upon release? It just caught me off guard as Renathal or well... Anyone else for that matter has yet to hand a quest with a story tie-in which would imply that Denathrius is already delt with.

    So... Can anyone clear this one up? Is all Covenant campaigns canon and are achieved by multiple Maw Walkers or is just one suppose to be canon? As there is points in the games that goes to show either one COULD be the case.
    they overlap, the only thing like with legion is that instead of how we see it where "the main charecter does it"
    it is instead "the (main charecter) leader of the 2 covenents work together to do this"

    so while it may seem they invalidate eachother ,think of it more as if both happen at the same time.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexxgrim View Post
    So... Can anyone clear this one up? Is all Covenant campaigns canon and are achieved by multiple Maw Walkers or is just one suppose to be canon? As there is points in the games that goes to show either one COULD be the case.
    "Each mortal shall choose a covenant", there are multiple Maw Walkers running around the Shadowlands helping out. All are canon events done by different people.
    Last edited by shadowmatrix; 2020-12-24 at 01:20 PM.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Greyfang's Avatar
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    I think it's not that only one is canon, but the timing is a bit off. For instance in the Night Fae campaign, you help Bwomsamdi set up the events that lead to De Other Side dungeon. Even though you do it like 3 weeks into the expansion when you've already likely cleared the dungeon in normal and heroic. So the timeline's a bit off. In the example presented in OP, its possible both the Kyrian champion and the Venthyr champion helped Mikanikos clearing out the forge at the same time, but for gameplay reasons only one is shown when you do the quests.

    Either way, its clear there's multiple Maw Walkers in different covenants.

  11. #11
    Yeah, Story is pretty much fucked at this point. Coherence was thrown out of the window a while ago.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Yea and in Bastion and Revendreth npcs call you "a maw walker".... so there is more than one. So no the lore doesn't "always" refer you to "the".
    A maw walker, but the Maw Walker. When they refer to you, they do say "the". When they describe your abilities, they say "a". It's also repeatedly stated that you are in fact the only one in recent history to be able to do this, which is why they keep asking you to go there and do various stuff. What Danuser said in an interview doesn't matter when it doesn't fit what's actually being shown.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    "Each mortal shall choose a covenant", there are multiple Maw Walkers running around the Shadowlands helping out. All are canon events done by different people.
    Every mortal. Not every maw walker. I.e. they want Calia and Taelia and everybody else coming through the Ebon Blade's portals to choose one.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    A maw walker, but the Maw Walker. When they refer to you, they do say "the". When they describe your abilities, they say "a". It's also repeatedly stated that you are in fact the only one in recent history to be able to do this, which is why they keep asking you to go there and do various stuff. What Danuser said in an interview doesn't matter when it doesn't fit what's actually being shown.
    Sounds good. Unfortunately I can't accept headcannon. There's more than enough quotes and references to counter this. Many I personally posted and can't be ignored.
    Last edited by tommyhil622; 2020-12-24 at 02:26 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Sounds good. Unfortunately I can't accept headcannon. There's more than enough quotes and references to counter this. Many I personally posted and can't be ignored.
    You didn't post any.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    But that does not make sense. The player is the only one who has been able to use the waystone to Oribos because of our special link to the world soul of Azeroth. Anduin and the other characters could not. So I thought it was because my character was the Champion of Azeroth. Why would he have been called for, to begin with? And there is only one Champion of Azeroth. Also, as far as I know, all the other mortals who entered the Shadowland did so by passing through the portal that was opened by using the fragment of the Helm of Domination, which bypasses the Maw. Therefore, there can only be one Maw Walker, even if other mortals that came after can work for other covenants. Which does not mean that their adventures are the same than the Player's. So there can be, to some extent, certain differences or contradictions between the different covenant campaigns.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    The Voice of what her face? The Arbiter npc tells you when you choose a covenant other Heroes of Azeroth chose different covenants from your choice.

    Lore wise if they ever release it in a new chronicles like book. It would mostly likely state many heroes ventured into Shadowlands to aid it. And that they all chose different covenants to aid.
    This. While you're responsible for the leveling story, there are at least 4 Maw-Walkers in canon lore since all four Covenant stories happen concurrently, thanks to the efforts of other heroes from Azeroth. Furthermore, as noted on page 1, the lore team and the story both function on the understanding that you are not the only mortal whose tether to Azeroth allows you to enter and exit the Maw, just the first one on the block, so to speak, with the others having arrived via the portals to Stormwind and Orgrimmar the Ebon Blade set up in Oribos.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    This. While you're responsible for the leveling story, there are at least 4 Maw-Walkers in canon lore since all four Covenant stories happen concurrently, thanks to the efforts of other heroes from Azeroth. Furthermore, as noted on page 1, the lore team and the story both function on the understanding that you are not the only mortal whose tether to Azeroth allows you to enter and exit the Maw, just the first one on the block, so to speak, with the others having arrived via the portals to Stormwind and Orgrimmar the Ebon Blade set up in Oribos.
    And so they send those mortals to do stuff in the Maw with the hapchance they might be able, maybe, somewhat, to activate the waystone that would send them back to Oribos?
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Greyfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    But that does not make sense. The player is the only one who has been able to use the waystone to Oribos because of our special link to the world soul of Azeroth. Anduin and the other characters could not. So I thought it was because my character was the Champion of Azeroth. Why would he have been called for, to begin with? And there is only one Champion of Azeroth. Also, as far as I know, all the other mortals who entered the Shadowland did so by passing through the portal that was opened by using the fragment of the Helm of Domination, which bypasses the Maw. Therefore, there can only be one Maw Walker, even if other mortals that came after can work for other covenants. Which does not mean that their adventures are the same than the Player's. So there can be, to some extent, certain differences or contradictions between the different covenant campaigns.
    Well technically there were also multiple Hearts of Azeroth, so there's more than one Champion of Azeroth with a connection to the world soul.

  19. #19
    The stories definitely do not happen concurrently, only roughly at the same time. For instance the Maldraxxus storyline where you defeated Gharmal was already done by Kyrians last week, meaning that at some level they are happening at different times.

    Though that being said, it is fully possible the "canon" version of the story is the one where you can do all the questlines within a single week, meaning that small inconsistencies like whether Mikanikos reclaiming the forge happened and in the 2nd or 5th questline hardly matters.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyfang View Post
    Well technically there were also multiple Hearts of Azeroth, so there's more than one Champion of Azeroth with a connection to the world soul.
    What? From what I understood there was only one Heart of Azeroth, and the player's character is the only Champion of Azeroth. BfA's story was built around that idea. As my character was the only emissary for his faction. I mean, in Nya'lotha, N'Zoth is not destroyed by several champions each using their Hearts of Azeroth, but by my character who channelled the energy from the Halls of Origination through the Heart of Azeroth.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

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