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  1. #1

    Question Are you pleased with Mage in raids right now?

    Looking at the logs, it seems mages are a fair bit behind other classes. Do you think it's going to improve in the next tier?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Looking at the logs, it seems mages are a fair bit behind other classes. Do you think it's going to improve in the next tier?
    Not really, but that's because my guild has too many boomers and our parses are all sub-average with mages having green parses.

    Then again I'm parsing most high blues in 60th percentile average as a fury warrior so it's not like I have a ton of leeway to complain.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Looking at the logs, it seems mages are a fair bit behind other classes. Do you think it's going to improve in the next tier?
    Yeah, Mage is great. Fun rotations, fun legendaries, and regardless of what the logs say, Fire atleast is still taken in the WF race, so I'm happy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  4. #4
    It's alright. Balanced... Might need a little bump, but usually stats later on helps. It's just overshadowed by the more powerful classes atm.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    Yeah, Mage is great. Fun rotations, fun legendaries, and regardless of what the logs say, Fire atleast is still taken in the WF race, so I'm happy.
    Yeah I was thinking similarly. Was trying out a Marksmanship hunter but it didn't feel that fun despite doing well on dps meters.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It's alright. Balanced... Might need a little bump, but usually stats later on helps. It's just overshadowed by the more powerful classes atm.
    Except this time there is a DR on secondary stats.
    S.H.

  7. #7
    Trash tier
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    Except this time there is a DR on secondary stats.
    What do you mean? It has always been dr on stats... The higher stats you have the less it's worth getting more of it.

  9. #9
    Fire is in an OK position, Arcane I have no idea about and Frost is absolute garbage and probably need a flat 20% dmg increase!

    Then again, I dont play any mage, this is just based on what I see them do in our raids.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    What do you mean? It has always been dr on stats... The higher stats you have the less it's worth getting more of it.
    Nah, that's just due to the compounding nature of secondary stats.

    If we assume 100 haste points == 10% haste:

    Old World:
    Getting more point value of a stat(the number you see on gear) is always worth x% of the secondary stat, no matter how much you get.
    30% haste -> 39% haste would require 90 haste points, as you would expect.
    The relative value of the secondary stat(compared to other secondary stats) goes down, as the stats compound off each other.


    New World:
    The more point value you have(changing at specific thresholds, 30% is the first), the less X% of that stat you get. Assuming 100 haste == 10% haste, once you hit 30% haste, every point above that is worth 10% less, ie to get from 30 -> 39% haste, it would take ~100 haste, instead of the 90 haste you would expect, due to the soft cap.
    The relative value of the secondary stat still goes down like normal, as the stats compound off each other.
    Also, there's a hard cap of 126% haste from gear.

    Big ol' detailed explanation here -> https://www.wowhead.com/guides/dimin...ld-of-warcraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  11. #11
    With Mage as a whole? Na.

    Frost is absolutely anemic in PVE. Does NO damage in raids, frostbolt is used as a filler spell which does no damage and is only used to proc other abilities which don't proc enough. Needs a flat damage increase and/or a haste buff. So disappointed with how Frost has been treated. It's crap in PVE and PVP for the most part. It has it's place in Mythic dungeons but that's ONLY if you get the glacial fragments legendary.

    Arcane doesn't feel great at all in PVE when you have to move. There is a lot of movement in a number of fights this tier so it doesn't feel great to play. It's decent in torghast though.

    Fire the best spec for Mages in PVE and PVP right now. I'd say it's slightly above mid-tier. Which is pretty poor that the best Mage spec is only above mid tier. It requires more thought that a lot of specs that are doing really right now too so I feel like it should definitely be towards the top. Needs a slight damage increase to all it's abilities IMO. I think it plays ok, maybe Flamestrike talent needs to be baseline but the damage should be higher. I feel like I play it relatively well but don't reap the rewards I feel like I should be getting.

    The Fire Mage in Limit was lucky to be top 8 DPS when I was watching him yesterday despite him playing it very well.

  12. #12
    You get a mechanic during combustion and your dps is GONE, i mean, totally GONE
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  13. #13
    Eh, it's okay I guess? At least as arcane I can keep somewhat up and I don't have to fear nerfs incomming while hunters and dks still rule supreme at the top. Frost is complete ass imho (at least gameplay wise), but that was clear in beta alreaedy for me, as I knew I wasn't going to like the popsicle spam build at all. Playing fire at the beginning of an expansion is pretty much meme-status for years now, so I wouldn't expect anything in that regard either way.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    You get a mechanic during combustion and your dps is GONE, i mean, totally GONE
    Delay your combustion for after the mechanic then and you can even dps while you are moving when needed

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Fire is still in the upper third and just super fun with the mobility kit it has, so zero complaints here.

    I'm just kinda sad that it's once again another tier of fire since frost and arcane kinda suck right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    It's alright. Balanced... Might need a little bump, but usually stats later on helps. It's just overshadowed by the more powerful classes atm.
    I have no idea where this thinking came from...it's even a meme now in the altered time community/discord. Mage specs don't scale different from other classes at all. (so yeah sure it helps but it helps other classes equally or better.)
    Last edited by LuckyOne; 2020-12-24 at 02:04 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Fire is still in the upper third and just super fun with the mobility kit it has, so zero complaints here.

    I'm just kinda sad that it's once again another tier of fire since frost and arcane kinda suck right now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I have no idea where this thinking came from...it's even a meme now in the altered time community/discord. Mage specs don't scale different from other classes at all. (so yeah sure it helps but it helps other classes equally or better.)
    Except that fire mages get more crit from crit and crit gets converted to mastery during combustion. Since its not a flat increase but a percentage it has more impact later on in the expansion.

  17. #17
    Nope, they're pretty ass. Was considering switching main from balance to frost mage because it'd benefit the guild and they're fairly fun, but considering the damage is like night and day and I don't want to be forced to swap spec and covenant just to be less ass in dps, I'll keep to boomie for now.

  18. #18
    Weeb Queen Video Games's Avatar
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    Ive been enjoying getting 96-99s and still 1-2k behind people

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Except that fire mages get more crit from crit and crit gets converted to mastery during combustion. Since its not a flat increase but a percentage it has more impact later on in the expansion.
    Yes but it does not tell us anything about how well fire scales with secondarys compared to other classes that also have synergies like that.

    The thought that fire scales better into expansions because of more secondarys compared to other classes has to die, it's not true since the legion rework.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Ive been enjoying getting 96-99s and still 1-2k behind people
    And then you see them being around 85s in parses... Feels bad man.

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