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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Yes, very elegant solution. Let's have them create multiple characters from scratch and gear those up again instead of like, the other side waiting half-a-day.

    There are ups and downs.
    They would get to have another heroic run and M+ before the EU reset kicks in.

    Also, everyone keeps saying this sleep schedule thing. Maybe I'm not old enough to understand how 1 day can fuck up your entire sleep schedule.
    The EU reset is around 2 AM in US time (give or take the time-zones).
    That would mean going to sleep that much earlier the day before ONCE. Nobody said they would need to keep doing 2 AM raids every day after.
    Olympic players don't complain this much about jet-leg for days or weeks. And that is actually affecting their bio-rythm.
    You realize gearing up takes like no time right and that they have several months before the next raid will be announced let alone start testing? Bite the bullet and do it now. Also no it doesn't mean doing it once it means doing it for several weeks in advance to get your body accommodated to it as well as during the race because having a consistent schedule is incredibly important when doing the race.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    No I am not comparing 2 different things. You're misinterpreting me. World's fastest time from current reset to first clear is the ONLY measure of success cross region and that is a FACT.

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    Its pretty simple, once the first guild downs last boss, it should start a countdown that other regions have to race to beat in order to claim the title from them. EU/NA is one day separated for example, so if an NA guild kills it first, EU guilds should have until the day after to beat them to the achievement.
    I understand, however the WF culture did not grow up with this perspective.

    Since WoW is a thing WF always meant "the first to kill" regardless of time.
    This causes the issue that people will start lashing out at WF kills retroactively. It'd be a mess.
    You can't change years and years of "culture" unfortunately, even tho the change would be fair.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It costs no money to create characters outside of buying the game which can just be done with gold, expecting the region who is currently on a normal schedule to fuck up their sleep schedules is absurd not to mention they would lose a day because of when reset is. Or do you also want them to not play on reset day so they only get 6 days each of the first two weeks boy that sure seems fair /s

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    Wasn't he the primary person consistently dying in phase 2?
    to give you an idea;

    https://streamable.com/6vsjsv

    this is how salty he was. It's adorable really.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    It doesnt matter. It only affects 40 players. Its irrelevant for millions of others.
    Let it be, if limit wanted fair game they would have waited 1 day.
    You are correct, but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be fixed. Blizzard should have their devs write a few lines of simple code to not hand out the world first until they are considered the worlds fastest cross region. As I said above, something very simple such as a trigger timer would solve this issue. Once Guild A hits their first kill (world first kill) then it should start a timer cross region that other guilds must beat in order to beat them to the achievement, if this criteria is not met, then the guild should be awarded the in game achievement and a notification sent out.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    No I am not comparing 2 different things. You're misinterpreting me. World's fastest time from current reset to first clear is the ONLY measure of success cross region and that is a FACT.

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    Its pretty simple, once the first guild downs last boss, it should start a countdown that other regions have to race to beat in order to claim the title from them. EU/NA is one day separated for example, so if an NA guild kills it first, EU guilds should have until the day after to beat them to the achievement.

    If the community don't accept it then they're just idiots so whatever lol.
    See here's the problem with that oh so brilliant idea. Being a video guild isn't hard and once you can copy a tactic you know for sure works it significantly reduces the difficulty of the encounter. The only current solution since blizz refuses to budge on lockouts/release is to set up NA characters because anyone who has participated in the race knows your "suggestion" is an utter joke.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    I understand, however the WF culture did not grow up with this perspective.

    Since WoW is a thing WF always meant "the first to kill" regardless of time.
    This causes the issue that people will start lashing out at WF kills retroactively. It'd be a mess.
    You can't change years and years of "culture" unfortunately, even tho the change would be fair.
    I mean the truth is just because something has been developed incorrectly doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. The truth is Blizzard should rewrite the code relevant to handing out world first achievements etc and rename the event to correctly award the first kill to the guild that earned it fair game the fastest, otherwise its just a farcical event.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You realize gearing up takes like no time right and that they have several months before the next raid will be announced let alone start testing? Bite the bullet and do it now. Also no it doesn't mean doing it once it means doing it for several weeks in advance to get your body accommodated to it as well as during the race because having a consistent schedule is incredibly important when doing the race.
    Gearing up takes no time? For WF? They are CONSTANTLY gearing since release for WF. Every day.

    Also, no. I'm not old enough to feel unaccomodated cuz of one day. I didn't even say they'd need to not sleep for 24 hours. Just like, 5 hours earlier?
    Everyone at their age should have no issue with this, it's not like they are doing construction work or anything.
    I had my fair shares of overtime (especially in the movie business) and to me it seemed like people can easily accomodate if they are determined.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    See here's the problem with that oh so brilliant idea. Being a video guild isn't hard and once you can copy a tactic you know for sure works it significantly reduces the difficulty of the encounter. The only current solution since blizz refuses to budge on lockouts/release is to set up NA characters because anyone who has participated in the race knows your "suggestion" is an utter joke.
    Wowwww Xath you're a very salty kiddo arent you hahahaha. See while you mald at my suggestion, id like to point out I came up with that off the top of my head in the space of about 15 seconds, so keep malding its quite funny.

    Your response is the utter joke hahahaha.

    Im not an idiot thanks, I know that you can copy tactics from videos, but that's a separate issue. As others have pointed out, you cant unlock regions at the same time or you'll ultimately still have to pick who gets to unlock at 6pm and who unlocks at 2am, its still not fair otherwise one guild has to raid nights and the other days. If guilds want to 'race' don't stream.

  9. #89
    Damn, that derailed so quick.

    It's kinda simple. Either it stays the way it is, has been and always will be or you just count the hours.
    Make a NA, EU, CN Race and as a comparison just add two days for NA, one day for EU and zero for CN. Or subtract 24/48 hours.

    If NA kills the Boss on the 2nd day of a new week and EU on the 1st day, EU wins. If both kill the endboss on the 2nd day after their reset and CN on resetday, CN wins.

  10. #90
    I thought this whole NA vs EU thing is just a joke for most people? Are there actually people that take this that seriously?

    If you want a "real" race you would also have both guilds not stream at all so they don't "copy each others' strats and figure it out themselves", but 1. that's not fun for the viewers and 2. who cares?

    Limit has streamed their progress for the past 2 tiers that they won which is providing a lot of info to any guilds that come after them. Is that "worth" 16 hours? I don't know. But instead of crying (which Echo is NOT doing), if they truly cared about this they can easily go to the America servers on the East Coast and have a minimal ping increase that doesn't matter in a PvE MMO.
    Last edited by david0925; 2020-12-24 at 12:51 PM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    I thought this whole NA vs EU thing is just a joke for most people? Are there actually people that take this that seriously?

    If you want a "real" race you would also have both guilds not stream at all so they don't "copy each others' strats and figure it out themselves", but 1. that's not fun for the viewers and 2. who cares?
    Yeah people like Xath, and he screams and cries whenever people toss in concepts that could be worked upon to actually make it a 'real' race.

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    The only way to make a world first race truly fair and something that can be taken serious would be to fly out all the guilds to a world first location where they are deprived of access to things like twitch, their mobile phones etc for the duration to prevent them from looking at each others videos/tactics, then have teams streaming each guild to the web. That way, everyone would start at the same time, same time zones, and without access to each others videos.

  12. #92
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    No I am not comparing 2 different things. You're misinterpreting me. World's fastest time from current reset to first clear is the ONLY measure of success cross region and that is a FACT.
    So when do you start said time? Do you include time spent on ptr practicing? If no, why not? It's literally time spent on the race to get better.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    It doesnt matter. It only affects 40 players. Its irrelevant for millions of others.
    Let it be, if limit wanted fair game they would have waited 1 day.
    Ye lets cut a day away for them and give EU an extra day, that seems perfectly fair.

    How about echo stops being shit at the important moments?

    Or is it the fact that they know they're not the best anymore now they actually have competition?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So when do you start said time? Do you include time spent on ptr practicing? If no, why not? It's literally time spent on the race to get better.
    I mean you're grasping at straws here, but ill answer it anyway.

    Every guild can choose how, when and how much they play PTR to get better for the real thing, that's their practice/warmup.

    Why you are suggesting practice should be taken into consideration when it isn't in literally any other event/sport on earth is beyond me, I don't see why PTR practice has anything to do with who wins the real thing. What you're suggesting is like giving the gold medal to the 100m finalist who ran the fastest race of the year not on the day when it mattered. But okay.

  15. #95
    It will never be "even", unless Blizz creates a appear server for the WF race and release only Mythic there. But you still encounter issues such as forcing some guilds to be awake at odd hours for the launch, so it's still technically never going to be fair.

    Current system isn't bad, the "advantage" the us realm gains it loses with the rest of the world copying known strats and free bug fixes.
    The day earlier reset is almost equally detrimental as it is helpful. How many times have we seen WF races won or lost on reset decisions, such as holding the lockout, clearing other difficulties, etc..

    What we have is likely the best we can get unless everyone decides to travel to a neutral location and Blizz releases Mythic only to them.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    The best solution would be to start counting the time from the moment of the raid opening on the guild's realm. Then compare the times on that base only.
    I know the usual answers, like "it doesn't really matter since Echo almost downed him too", "race gets close in the end anyway", "first is first", "you're just jealous that region X won this time". The Asian region has even more of a disadvantage.
    Yeah, you can argue that it's not hugely relevant that EU is 24h behind when in the end they often won or get close to winning. But the thing is, why should we even argue or relativize?
    A 100% fair way to measure this stuff is not at all complicated and so why don't we start doing it? Just because it was never done before? Is it a tradition thing, like "we always did it poorly so we continue to do it poorly because it's tradition"? Is it because WoW PvE raid e-sport isn't that "important" compared to other e-sports? I don't know. But I don't get why it should always continue like this, when a fair solution is so damn easy (counting differently). Nothing has to change except the evaluation. Simple solution to a simple problem.

    Anyway, congrats to Limit.
    The entire guild is making fun of him for saying 'if we clear in 16h we'll be first'; like, literally and he is getting so mad (on stream) telling his guild to F off because 'he waited an entire year for this.'

    It's laughable. Now they're blaming lag for not making it within 16 hr lol

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    The entire guild is making fun of him for saying 'if we clear in 16h we'll be first'; like, literally and he is getting so mad (on stream) telling his guild to F off because 'he waited an entire year for this.'

    It's laughable. Now they're blaming lag for not making it within 16 hr lol
    Wait who is this that you are talking about sorry?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    Which is exactly why everyone should race to first kill on their own servers/timers, and it should be based on fastest kill from current reset.
    Isn’t it like that already?

  19. #99
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    I mean you're grasping at straws here, but ill answer it anyway.

    Every guild can choose how, when and how much they play PTR to get better for the real thing, that's their practice/warmup.

    Why you are suggesting practice should be taken into consideration when it isn't in literally any other event/sport on earth is beyond me, I don't see why PTR practice has anything to do with who wins the real thing. What you're suggesting is like giving the gold medal to the 100m finalist who ran the fastest race of the year not on the day when it mattered. But okay.
    Cause this isn't a traditional sport. With normal sports you have everyone start on equal grounds in the same place. IF we were to do that with this everyone would need to be in the same place using pc\s with all the same add-ons/specs.

    I'm just saying there are too many factors that using time alone isn't right. To me a person that killed it in 2 days without practice did it much faster than the one that did it with 100 hours of practice and 2 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Isn’t it like that already?
    No it's just world first atm. EU is a day behind.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
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  20. #100
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    So Echo still hasn't killed Denathrius, they have like... a few hours? to beat him and be the "fastest". They had pulls around 20% like 10+ hours ago last I checked, did they just stop trying once Limit got it?

    Also consider that Limit streamed their raid in it's entirety (Echo didn't stream Denath, lol), and Echo was no doubt glued to it and copying anything they needed. Limit was basically doing progression for them. Not saying that makes up the amount of time EU is behind, but it's not nothing that Echo went in more prepared than Limit, because of Limit, and it's just another reason the different start times are dumb.

    Oh yeah, Limit also beta-tested the raid for Blizzard before EU got in there, can't really discount that either. Limit had a head start but there are disadvantages to that since Blizzard can't release a proper patch.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-12-24 at 01:30 PM.

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