world first backpedaling

[Yarathir]

It has never been truly competitive/esports level, as pointed out by so many... (for that to be the case there would need to be more changes than just the time difference), it's just a nice and fun community spectacle.

Maybe in the past. But with so many sponsors and a lot of guilds taking it as seriously as they do, I wouldn't say it's "just a nice and fun community spectacle."

[Jazzhands]

They could've given up as soon as Limit got Denathrius down as they figured that that would be acknowledged as the world first.

Anyway, the most feasible (that is not to say good) solution I have seen is for Blizzard to set up special servers for the world first race, but that in itself is a lot of heavy lifting. Still insist that a competition that doesn't take all of these factors into account isn't much of a race, though.

But I'm happy to give Limit the win now that even any headstart has been thoroughly negated.

Actually a special server sounds kinda alright, but it'd have to be a central location to all regions so everyone had similar latency, which would mean everyone would be playing at higher latencies which is doable but not really preferable.

[Yarathir]

Actually a special server sounds kinda alright, but it'd have to be a central location to all regions so everyone had similar latency, which would mean everyone would be playing at higher latencies which is doable but not really preferable.

To be fair, that would hopefully be everyone with the same issues, then.

But you'd have several things to tackle. First, Blizzard would have to want to do that work and guilds would have to agree to raiding on an isolated server where they get to keep none of the "spoils" afterwards.

They would perhaps be willing to do so if this competition took place quite a bit ahead of official game wide release, but then that would also lock your average guild out of trying and make it some kinda opt-in thing.

[Fleugen]

Why wouldn't it work?

Because your second line is exactly impossible.

If WF raiding guilds all agreed equally to delay their own start, they are purposely allowing a window in which other guilds who would normally NOT be WF, can prosper and possibly beat them, thus ruining the world first race. All it takes is one decent set of players, and suddenly that delayed start time cost them the race.

[Farora]

It has never been truly competitive/esports level, as pointed out by so many... (for that to be the case there would need to be more changes than just the time difference), it's just a nice and fun community spectacle.

I don't understand how you can get so salty about this or even demand changes that would also affect 99% of other raiding players even if only slightly.

There are only about 35k mythic raiders, there were 150k concurrent viewers last night on just the 2 main streams. If I were Blizzard I would try to please the huge amount of people watching too, its good PR for Wow.

[chiddie]

Actually a special server sounds kinda alright, but it'd have to be a central location to all regions so everyone had similar latency, which would mean everyone would be playing at higher latencies which is doable but not really preferable.

Special servers make no sense because major issue is time zone and this is not solvable in any way.

[Dazu]

So in this theory, should we also give all guilds artificial ping delays to even it up for those that have to play on higher pings?

[kiramon]

Lol they just wiped at 0.05%. At the 16hr mark ;P

[Jazzhands]

To be fair, that would hopefully be everyone with the same issues, then.

But you'd have several things to tackle. First, Blizzard would have to want to do that work and guilds would have to agree to raiding on an isolated server where they get to keep none of the "spoils" afterwards.

They would perhaps be willing to do so if this competition took place quite a bit ahead of official game wide release, but then that would also lock your average guild out of trying and make it some kinda opt-in thing.

They could easily do free transfers, at this point the process is likely entirely automated and it'd be no different than copying to a PTR realm and then copying it back after the raid is done with the spoils. Maybe they could even lock the character on live servers just to prevent any weird stuff until they come back. However an issue with this would be things consumables/using the AH, copying characters back and forth for the sake of transferring items would be slightly tedious but if it helps fix a larger issue than it could be worth the annoyance. They'd also have to keep server tags to prevent people from abusing the server to transfer things around.

[Yarathir]

Lol they just wiped at 0.05%. At the 16hr mark ;P

Painful to wipe at 0.05%, holy shit.

Not that if we took the headstart into account, it'd be a full 16hr difference. Limit already won.

[LuckyOne]

There are only about 35k mythic raiders, there were 150k concurrent viewers last night on just the 2 main streams. If I were Blizzard I would try to please the huge amount of people watching too, its good PR for Wow.

Maybe in the past. But with so many sponsors and a lot of guilds taking it as seriously as they do, I wouldn't say it's "just a nice and fun community spectacle."

Sure because they generate a lot of viewers which is great for the sponsors, and it seems like it works and pulls in viewers without having 100% competitive integrity regardless. (Because it's still close enough i guess?)

But as long as blizzard doesn't really acknowledge it and turns it into a competitive scene it simply is a nice and fun community spectacle*with sponsors.

[kiramon]

Painful to wipe at 0.05%, holy shit.

Not that if we took the headstart into account, it'd be a full 16hr difference. Limit already won.

Yah, 19k hp.

[Farora]

Painful to wipe at 0.05%, holy shit.

Not that if we took the headstart into account, it'd be a full 16hr difference. Limit already won.

Haha are you serious? Even if you're a US fanboy you can see without the head start it would have been extremely close with either guild able to take it.

[Yarathir]

They could easily do free transfers, at this point the process is likely entirely automated and it'd be no different than copying to a PTR realm and then copying it back after the raid is done with the spoils. Maybe they could even lock the character on live servers just to prevent any weird stuff until they come back. However an issue with this would be things consumables/using the AH, copying characters back and forth for the sake of transferring items would be slightly tedious but if it helps fix a larger issue than it could be worth the annoyance. They'd also have to keep server tags to prevent people from abusing the server to transfer things around.

Honestly, the more I think of all of this, the more I think "Just turn it into an official competition where Blizzard sets up official stations with their own servers like two weeks before official raid releases where the top contending guilds can duke it out."

I feel like World Firsts at this point are in a difficult middle point between being "a fun little competition" and "an official, high-stakes race," and I think Blizzard and the community need to pick a side. It's either just a fun race that doesn't matter, or it's super serious, with sponsors, serious Blizzard acknowledgment and commentary, etc.

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Haha are you serious? Even if you're a US fanboy you can see without the head start it would have been extremely close with either guild able to take it.

You can read back my posts to see how much of an US fanboy I am.

The fact of the matter is that even with a 16 hr headstart, Limit has won. But it wasn't even a 16hr headstart because of the different factors, like bugs US had to face by going first, into account.

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Sure because they generate a lot of viewers which is great for the sponsors, and it seems like it works and pulls in viewers without having 100% competitive integrity regardless. (Because it's still close enough i guess?)

But as long as blizzard doesn't really acknowledge it and turns it into a competitive scene it simply is a nice and fun community spectacle*with sponsors.

See my post aimed at Jazzhands. I think at this point, a side should be chosen, rather than sticking to some ambiguous in between.

[Zyky]

So what about USAs time wasted on buggy encounters, or the fact that sponsors likely require guilds to stream their progress and thus help EU nail down strats and such before they go in? How do we account for this? Being first has some drawbacks.

It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all the time when EU was consistently ahead. US lost out on World First for several expansions because they were outplayed and it wasn't because of strat stealing or bugged encounters.

[schwank05]

There is not chance that every guild will agree.
If they want to start at the same time... some guilds will be pushed to play at night,

Isnt this the time everyone plays the game? I mean people have jobs during the day.

[Zyky]

That would have to be agreed to and also try to take into account the fact that US runs into bugs being that they go first, too.

And at that point, you'd also have to consider other regions out of fairness.

It actually doesn't have to be agreed upon by those competing, if the masses watching agree to this statement then that's what matters. If 50k people watching all say that it should work this way, it'll be the accepted ideal, not because 30 people in Limit or Echoes don't like it that way.

[Yarathir]

It actually doesn't have to be agreed upon by those competing, if the masses watching agree to this statement then that's what matters. If 50k people watching all say that it should work this way, it'll be the accepted ideal, not because 30 people in Limit or Echoes don't like it that way.

That's even harder because the people will agree to what benefits them the most because too many spectators have their ego wound up in what side of the pond wins.

[Jazzhands]

Honestly, the more I think of all of this, the more I think "Just turn it into an official competition where Blizzard sets up official stations with their own servers like two weeks before official raid releases where the top contending guilds can duke it out."

I feel like World Firsts at this point are in a difficult middle point between being "a fun little competition" and "an official, high-stakes race," and I think Blizzard and the community need to pick a side. It's either just a fun race that doesn't matter, or it's super serious, with sponsors, serious Blizzard acknowledgment and commentary, etc.

I definitely agree, Blizzard seems to have trouble picking a lane more than anyone, I feel like they didn't put as much into this race as they did for BFA, though I will say I paid less attention to this race. It seemed like it was finally an "official" type of thing but now I feel like Blizz is backing out, guilds like Limit and Echo are definitely in the serious lane, and I feel like there are more sponsors than ever since eSports has taken off, so it's really just Blizzard shitting the bed all around.

[Xath]

Actually a special server sounds kinda alright, but it'd have to be a central location to all regions so everyone had similar latency, which would mean everyone would be playing at higher latencies which is doable but not really preferable.

Or just a tournament realm for each region with gear unlocking as bosses are killed. There are easy ways for blizzard to fix it but they have thus far taken a hands off approach. A TR is a legitimate solution a timer after entire kills have been streamed is not.