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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    I definitely agree, Blizzard seems to have trouble picking a lane more than anyone, I feel like they didn't put as much into this race as they did for BFA, though I will say I paid less attention to this race. It seemed like it was finally an "official" type of thing but now I feel like Blizz is backing out, guilds like Limit and Echo are definitely in the serious lane, and I feel like there are more sponsors than ever since eSports has taken off, so it's really just Blizzard shitting the bed all around.
    Maybe Blizzard took their distance because of the Method fiasco? I dunno. But yeah, they should definitely pick a lane because this is just kind of some uncomfortable middle at this point. It's halfway serious and halfway "just a fun competition brah."

  2. #142
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all the time when EU was consistently ahead. US lost out on World First for several expansions because they were outplayed and it wasn't because of strat stealing or bugged encounters.
    Yup, but the times they are a changin' and people are seemingly having a lot of issues with that. Echo still 9/10 after 16+ hours btw.

    And yeah, Blizzard totally does that. Kil'jaeden was definitely a well put together and well tested fight.

    Also, how did US steal strats before streaming when logs were always hidden?
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-12-24 at 02:19 PM.

  3. #143
    Echo just downed him

  4. #144
    Well they got it - 22 mins after

  5. #145
    Damn in the end it just clicked and they killed it with like 1 death.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all
    QUOTE=Zyky;52899769]It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all the time when EU was consistently ahead. US lost out on World First for several expansions because they were outplayed and it wasn't because of strat stealing or bugged encounters.
    Slg had 27 separate bugs some of which literally despawned the encounter. Sludge was double hitting chain slam for half a day. Sire has/had weird dr on taunt in final phase that is different from the rest of the fight and cost multiple attempts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Well they got it - 22 mins after
    16 hours and 22 minutes

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Farora View Post
    Damn in the end it just clicked and they killed it with like 1 death.
    Uh yeah you aren't killing it with more than like one death tuning is insanely tight

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post

    16 hours and 22 minutes
    And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Declaron View Post
    And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.
    Yes Alex, can I have "Shittiest takes possible" for $1,000 please?

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Declaron View Post
    And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.
    Even if you want to add in the 'US starting earlier,' we dealt with a 10 hour maintenance where EU did not.

  10. #150
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Declaron View Post
    And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.
    Second place is still second place.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Why wouldn't it work?

    All it needs is an agreement between WF raiding guilds that they would respect the wait until the EU reset. That is all.

    From a technical standpoint there is no issue here. Would they be willing to do this? Probably not because they would have done it already.
    But it's a solution until Blizz actually merges the resets.
    and all it takes is one guild to break that agreement and get a headstart and win the race.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahrendel View Post
    Even if you want to add in the 'US starting earlier,' we dealt with a 10 hour maintenance where EU did not.
    Yeah, it's not a 16 hr headstart at all. There's also the bugs US had to deal with.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Second place is still second place.
    Nah mate, I'm already seeing people envisioning an alternate reality where Echo didn't wipe during their reclears so they definitely killed it first. Echo in their limitless (sic) humility simply allowed NA to win out of pity so they can make next tier's race even more intense. Or, at least, that's what the script says.

  14. #154
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    You're giving me the esports argument, I've heard it a million times because my best friends are 2 NA PUBG tier 1 pros and I've spoken to people in that space about it all the time. Look Orange, whatever way you spin this, you're wrong here. You cannot consider ANYTHING competitive unless you start at the same point, or are measured against the same ruler, that's just a fact. Your argument about needing to have the same PC's with addons/spec isn't true, its not any different to Olympic sprinters using different brands of running shoes, or as you might see in my name (I used to throw the javelin for GB) Javelin throwers owning their own Javelins of which there are a lot of brands, they fly different, they have different styles, all are legal.

    If a guildy has such a bad PC that its causing them issues playing, then its the guilds job to replace them until they get a better spec pc.

    If I said to you, if you are familiar with battle royale/PUBG, that NA teams can jump out of the plane 10 minutes before EU teams, and loot up, before playing the game, you'd say that's outrageous and ridiculous, and its not remotely fair or competitive as they simply don't start on a level footing, its no different with the world first. You cannot consider it fair in good conscience. PUBG pros compete regularly with their own PC specs, their own mice and keyboards, headphones and AMP's. But they play the same game on the same footing, and that's a competition.

    In a perfect world, yes, all the players would be shipped out to a location, given 30 PC's, deprived of access to the internet/twitch with exception of access to world of warcraft servers, and set loose, with the public able to watch all teams streams, they would all start at the same time, on the same rigs, and nobody would be able to learn tactics from each other, and we could see the winner, but that isn't going to happen nor will a worldwide release be likely to happen, so for now the best solution is to fix up the criteria for world first, and by any measure the logical solution here is to judge them on how long it took them from their local release to their kill.
    I'm sure you can switch out your peripherals ( mouse-keyboards/ shoes-javalins ) but everyone races on the same track in the same weather. ( pc / internet)


    And I'm not saying it isn't still competitive. Just that the measurement for the best is kinda subjective atm.

    To me it's just not that big of a deal, nor do I think it really is for the community either. World firsts are determined by the community, not blizzard. I don't feel blizzard should change something that effect millions of players to fix something for less than 1000's players.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Nah mate, I'm already seeing people envisioning an alternate reality where Echo didn't wipe during their reclears so they definitely killed it first. Echo in their limitless (sic) humility simply allowed NA to win out of pity so they can make next tier's race even more intense. Or, at least, that's what the script says.
    I think you're envisioning boogeymen at this point.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Make the raid open at 9am PST on a Sunday everywhere in the world and have at it. Problem solved.
    What about resets and maintenance?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  17. #157
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Nah mate, I'm already seeing people envisioning an alternate reality where Echo didn't wipe during their reclears so they definitely killed it first. Echo in their limitless (sic) humility simply allowed NA to win out of pity so they can make next tier's race even more intense. Or, at least, that's what the script says.
    Sounds about right, yeah. It's really funny how salty people get about losing to the US.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Gearing up takes no time? For WF? They are CONSTANTLY gearing since release for WF. Every day.

    Also, no. I'm not old enough to feel unaccomodated cuz of one day. I didn't even say they'd need to not sleep for 24 hours. Just like, 5 hours earlier?
    Everyone at their age should have no issue with this, it's not like they are doing construction work or anything.
    I had my fair shares of overtime (especially in the movie business) and to me it seemed like people can easily accomodate if they are determined.
    Gearing up for the next race will likely be done within a month there is no forging to worry about if Echo started characters now they could absolutely done long before the next race.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Well they got it - 22 mins after
    It was a wrap before, it's more a wrap because of that, now the goal posts got to be moved to make it not a wrap to make people that are in it was a wrap denial already to still be able to in denial.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    The best solution would be to start counting the time from the moment of the raid opening on the guild's realm. Then compare the times on that base only.
    I know the usual answers, like "it doesn't really matter since Echo almost downed him too", "race gets close in the end anyway", "first is first", "you're just jealous that region X won this time". The Asian region has even more of a disadvantage.
    Yeah, you can argue that it's not hugely relevant that EU is 24h behind when in the end they often won or get close to winning. But the thing is, why should we even argue or relativize?
    A 100% fair way to measure this stuff is not at all complicated and so why don't we start doing it? Just because it was never done before? Is it a tradition thing, like "we always did it poorly so we continue to do it poorly because it's tradition"? Is it because WoW PvE raid e-sport isn't that "important" compared to other e-sports? I don't know. But I don't get why it should always continue like this, when a fair solution is so damn easy (counting differently). Nothing has to change except the evaluation. Simple solution to a simple problem.

    Anyway, congrats to Limit.
    It's just not that simple unfortunately. You would need a LOT of rules to make something like this work. What if one region has more maintenance than another? What happens when a boss is bugged and the leading guild can't actually progress during that time period? How do you factor in the time gained from being able to watch another guild's strategies for every early boss? You would need someone to specify and the guilds to agree on all these rules before starting and still there would be controversy.

    It's just much simpler, and probably more fair to just say whoever gets it first, wins.

    Echo killed the boss just over 16 hours after Limit. Combine this with the amount of time Limit lost due to maintenance and bugs and the advantage of EU being able to watch their strats for the first few bosses and you can absolutely make the argument that Limit won this race straight up.

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