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  1. #81
    Damn, that derailed so quick.

    It's kinda simple. Either it stays the way it is, has been and always will be or you just count the hours.
    Make a NA, EU, CN Race and as a comparison just add two days for NA, one day for EU and zero for CN. Or subtract 24/48 hours.

    If NA kills the Boss on the 2nd day of a new week and EU on the 1st day, EU wins. If both kill the endboss on the 2nd day after their reset and CN on resetday, CN wins.

  2. #82
    I thought this whole NA vs EU thing is just a joke for most people? Are there actually people that take this that seriously?

    If you want a "real" race you would also have both guilds not stream at all so they don't "copy each others' strats and figure it out themselves", but 1. that's not fun for the viewers and 2. who cares?

    Limit has streamed their progress for the past 2 tiers that they won which is providing a lot of info to any guilds that come after them. Is that "worth" 16 hours? I don't know. But instead of crying (which Echo is NOT doing), if they truly cared about this they can easily go to the America servers on the East Coast and have a minimal ping increase that doesn't matter in a PvE MMO.
    Last edited by david0925; 2020-12-24 at 12:51 PM.

  3. #83
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    No I am not comparing 2 different things. You're misinterpreting me. World's fastest time from current reset to first clear is the ONLY measure of success cross region and that is a FACT.
    So when do you start said time? Do you include time spent on ptr practicing? If no, why not? It's literally time spent on the race to get better.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    It doesnt matter. It only affects 40 players. Its irrelevant for millions of others.
    Let it be, if limit wanted fair game they would have waited 1 day.
    Ye lets cut a day away for them and give EU an extra day, that seems perfectly fair.

    How about echo stops being shit at the important moments?

    Or is it the fact that they know they're not the best anymore now they actually have competition?

  5. #85
    It will never be "even", unless Blizz creates a appear server for the WF race and release only Mythic there. But you still encounter issues such as forcing some guilds to be awake at odd hours for the launch, so it's still technically never going to be fair.

    Current system isn't bad, the "advantage" the us realm gains it loses with the rest of the world copying known strats and free bug fixes.
    The day earlier reset is almost equally detrimental as it is helpful. How many times have we seen WF races won or lost on reset decisions, such as holding the lockout, clearing other difficulties, etc..

    What we have is likely the best we can get unless everyone decides to travel to a neutral location and Blizz releases Mythic only to them.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by TaurenNinja View Post
    The best solution would be to start counting the time from the moment of the raid opening on the guild's realm. Then compare the times on that base only.
    I know the usual answers, like "it doesn't really matter since Echo almost downed him too", "race gets close in the end anyway", "first is first", "you're just jealous that region X won this time". The Asian region has even more of a disadvantage.
    Yeah, you can argue that it's not hugely relevant that EU is 24h behind when in the end they often won or get close to winning. But the thing is, why should we even argue or relativize?
    A 100% fair way to measure this stuff is not at all complicated and so why don't we start doing it? Just because it was never done before? Is it a tradition thing, like "we always did it poorly so we continue to do it poorly because it's tradition"? Is it because WoW PvE raid e-sport isn't that "important" compared to other e-sports? I don't know. But I don't get why it should always continue like this, when a fair solution is so damn easy (counting differently). Nothing has to change except the evaluation. Simple solution to a simple problem.

    Anyway, congrats to Limit.
    The entire guild is making fun of him for saying 'if we clear in 16h we'll be first'; like, literally and he is getting so mad (on stream) telling his guild to F off because 'he waited an entire year for this.'

    It's laughable. Now they're blaming lag for not making it within 16 hr lol

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    Which is exactly why everyone should race to first kill on their own servers/timers, and it should be based on fastest kill from current reset.
    Isn’t it like that already?

  8. #88
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JavelinJoe View Post
    I mean you're grasping at straws here, but ill answer it anyway.

    Every guild can choose how, when and how much they play PTR to get better for the real thing, that's their practice/warmup.

    Why you are suggesting practice should be taken into consideration when it isn't in literally any other event/sport on earth is beyond me, I don't see why PTR practice has anything to do with who wins the real thing. What you're suggesting is like giving the gold medal to the 100m finalist who ran the fastest race of the year not on the day when it mattered. But okay.
    Cause this isn't a traditional sport. With normal sports you have everyone start on equal grounds in the same place. IF we were to do that with this everyone would need to be in the same place using pc\s with all the same add-ons/specs.

    I'm just saying there are too many factors that using time alone isn't right. To me a person that killed it in 2 days without practice did it much faster than the one that did it with 100 hours of practice and 2 days.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Isn’t it like that already?
    No it's just world first atm. EU is a day behind.
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  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    So Echo still hasn't killed Denathrius, they have like... a few hours? to beat him and be the "fastest". They had pulls around 20% like 10+ hours ago last I checked, did they just stop trying once Limit got it?

    Also consider that Limit streamed their raid in it's entirety (Echo didn't stream Denath, lol), and Echo was no doubt glued to it and copying anything they needed. Limit was basically doing progression for them. Not saying that makes up the amount of time EU is behind, but it's not nothing that Echo went in more prepared than Limit, because of Limit, and it's just another reason the different start times are dumb.

    Oh yeah, Limit also beta-tested the raid for Blizzard before EU got in there, can't really discount that either. Limit had a head start but there are disadvantages to that since Blizzard can't release a proper patch.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-12-24 at 01:30 PM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    I mean this could easily be fixed on the community's side if they agreed to start when the EU reset happens.

    Still a better solution than begging to Blizzard.
    Will never work as long as resets are on different days, if they'd be on the same day then EU would get a 9h headstart, but both would start on the same day.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Why wouldn't it work?

    All it needs is an agreement between WF raiding guilds that they would respect the wait until the EU reset. That is all.

    From a technical standpoint there is no issue here. Would they be willing to do this? Probably not because they would have done it already.
    But it's a solution until Blizz actually merges the resets.
    The problem here is that while there is indeed a real headstart, there's also the factor of dealing with the bugs on the US side of the spectrum. If you don't acknowledge that part, then it will just get lopsided in favor of EU.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    ...or we could have 1 guild adapt and go to american servers already instead of having million of people to adapt rofl, as always wow gamers being out of touch with reality
    I thought it was World First, not American First.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Yes. If you total all previous boss kills, it shows EU players are superior. We have increased intelligence, strength, reflexes and muscle memory.
    You mean past EU guilds did. Not you, not I.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    The problem here is that while there is indeed a real headstart, there's also the factor of dealing with the bugs on the US side of the spectrum. If you don't acknowledge that part, then it will just get lopsided in favor of EU.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I thought it was World First, not American First.
    Stop thinking, you fail at it.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Stop thinking, you fail at it.
    Great refutation. You win Reddit gold, sir.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Yes, that would be the best solution. I already stated this.

    But Blizzard interference is not an option in this discussion. Especially since the WF race is not officially held by Blizz, but by the community.
    So the community would need to establish some rules first.
    The best solution outside of Blizzards interference would be IF a US guild gets 'technical' world first then EU has x hours to take the title(x being the time difference between start times because I don't know off hand what it is).
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Great refutation. You win Reddit gold, sir.
    Worth your previous post, to be more specific this part "I thought it was World First, not American First."

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Worth your previous post.
    Based argument winner. Sure got owned by you le epic style.

    Now can you reply with something worth considering or should I just ignore you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The best solution outside of Blizzards interference would be IF a US guild gets 'technical' world first then EU has x hours to take the title(x being the time difference between start times because I don't know off hand what it is).
    That would have to be agreed to and also try to take into account the fact that US runs into bugs being that they go first, too.

    And at that point, you'd also have to consider other regions out of fairness.

  17. #97
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The best solution outside of Blizzards interference would be IF a US guild gets 'technical' world first then EU has x hours to take the title(x being the time difference between start times because I don't know off hand what it is).
    So what about USAs time wasted on buggy encounters, or the fact that sponsors likely require guilds to stream their progress and thus help EU nail down strats and such before they go in? How do we account for this? Being first has some drawbacks.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    So what about USAs time wasted on buggy encounters, or the fact that sponsors likely require guilds to stream their progress and thus help EU nail down strats and such before they go in? How do we account for this? Being first has some drawbacks.
    This is true. It doesn't negate the headstart, but it is a factor all the same. It seems difficult to calculate a timer based on it. I couldn't do it, but maybe there are people who can.

  19. #99
    Even in Classic the last raid Naxx was released globally. So in the evening for EU. The no life guilds stayed up late and raced against the NA and CN guilds. Works perfectly fine and the 2000+ normal guilds that cleared it the coming days and weeks were fine with it obviously.

    So next tier #globalrelease !

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Based argument winner. Sure got owned by you le epic style.
    Now can you reply with something worth considering or should I just ignore you?
    I already posted regarding the matter feel free to check the history, I don't like repeating myself to people like you cherrypicking and posting something stupid such as "I thought it was World First, not American First." which is obvious trolling. Feel free to ignore me, I'm doing the same thing of ignoring you since you lack knowledge/expertise/proper arguements.

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