world first backpedaling

[Zyky]

So what about USAs time wasted on buggy encounters, or the fact that sponsors likely require guilds to stream their progress and thus help EU nail down strats and such before they go in? How do we account for this? Being first has some drawbacks.

It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all the time when EU was consistently ahead. US lost out on World First for several expansions because they were outplayed and it wasn't because of strat stealing or bugged encounters.

[schwank05]

There is not chance that every guild will agree.
If they want to start at the same time... some guilds will be pushed to play at night,

Isnt this the time everyone plays the game? I mean people have jobs during the day.

[Zyky]

That would have to be agreed to and also try to take into account the fact that US runs into bugs being that they go first, too.

And at that point, you'd also have to consider other regions out of fairness.

It actually doesn't have to be agreed upon by those competing, if the masses watching agree to this statement then that's what matters. If 50k people watching all say that it should work this way, it'll be the accepted ideal, not because 30 people in Limit or Echoes don't like it that way.

[Yarathir]

It actually doesn't have to be agreed upon by those competing, if the masses watching agree to this statement then that's what matters. If 50k people watching all say that it should work this way, it'll be the accepted ideal, not because 30 people in Limit or Echoes don't like it that way.

That's even harder because the people will agree to what benefits them the most because too many spectators have their ego wound up in what side of the pond wins.

[Jazzhands]

Honestly, the more I think of all of this, the more I think "Just turn it into an official competition where Blizzard sets up official stations with their own servers like two weeks before official raid releases where the top contending guilds can duke it out."

I feel like World Firsts at this point are in a difficult middle point between being "a fun little competition" and "an official, high-stakes race," and I think Blizzard and the community need to pick a side. It's either just a fun race that doesn't matter, or it's super serious, with sponsors, serious Blizzard acknowledgment and commentary, etc.

I definitely agree, Blizzard seems to have trouble picking a lane more than anyone, I feel like they didn't put as much into this race as they did for BFA, though I will say I paid less attention to this race. It seemed like it was finally an "official" type of thing but now I feel like Blizz is backing out, guilds like Limit and Echo are definitely in the serious lane, and I feel like there are more sponsors than ever since eSports has taken off, so it's really just Blizzard shitting the bed all around.

[Xath]

Actually a special server sounds kinda alright, but it'd have to be a central location to all regions so everyone had similar latency, which would mean everyone would be playing at higher latencies which is doable but not really preferable.

Or just a tournament realm for each region with gear unlocking as bosses are killed. There are easy ways for blizzard to fix it but they have thus far taken a hands off approach. A TR is a legitimate solution a timer after entire kills have been streamed is not.

[Yarathir]

I definitely agree, Blizzard seems to have trouble picking a lane more than anyone, I feel like they didn't put as much into this race as they did for BFA, though I will say I paid less attention to this race. It seemed like it was finally an "official" type of thing but now I feel like Blizz is backing out, guilds like Limit and Echo are definitely in the serious lane, and I feel like there are more sponsors than ever since eSports has taken off, so it's really just Blizzard shitting the bed all around.

Maybe Blizzard took their distance because of the Method fiasco? I dunno. But yeah, they should definitely pick a lane because this is just kind of some uncomfortable middle at this point. It's halfway serious and halfway "just a fun competition brah."

[Jazzhands]

It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all the time when EU was consistently ahead. US lost out on World First for several expansions because they were outplayed and it wasn't because of strat stealing or bugged encounters.

Yup, but the times they are a changin' and people are seemingly having a lot of issues with that. Echo still 9/10 after 16+ hours btw.

And yeah, Blizzard totally does that. Kil'jaeden was definitely a well put together and well tested fight.

Also, how did US steal strats before streaming when logs were always hidden?

[Jabakaga]

Echo just downed him

[kiramon]

Well they got it - 22 mins after

[Farora]

Damn in the end it just clicked and they killed it with like 1 death.

[Xath]

It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all
QUOTE=Zyky;52899769]It's very rare that encounters stay bugged for long, Blizzard watches the progress very closely and has open lines of communication with players competing, the reality is strat stealing is something that will never change, US used to steal strats from EU all the time when EU was consistently ahead. US lost out on World First for several expansions because they were outplayed and it wasn't because of strat stealing or bugged encounters.

Slg had 27 separate bugs some of which literally despawned the encounter. Sludge was double hitting chain slam for half a day. Sire has/had weird dr on taunt in final phase that is different from the rest of the fight and cost multiple attempts.

- - - Updated - - -

Well they got it - 22 mins after

16 hours and 22 minutes

- - - Updated - - -

Damn in the end it just clicked and they killed it with like 1 death.

Uh yeah you aren't killing it with more than like one death tuning is insanely tight

[Declaron]

16 hours and 22 minutes

And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.

[Relapses]

And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.

Yes Alex, can I have "Shittiest takes possible" for $1,000 please?

[Ahrendel]

And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.

Even if you want to add in the 'US starting earlier,' we dealt with a 10 hour maintenance where EU did not.

[Jazzhands]

And taking into account US "started" 16 hours earlier, that'll be 22 minutes then.

Second place is still second place.

[glowpipe]

Why wouldn't it work?

All it needs is an agreement between WF raiding guilds that they would respect the wait until the EU reset. That is all.

From a technical standpoint there is no issue here. Would they be willing to do this? Probably not because they would have done it already.
But it's a solution until Blizz actually merges the resets.

and all it takes is one guild to break that agreement and get a headstart and win the race.

[Yarathir]

Even if you want to add in the 'US starting earlier,' we dealt with a 10 hour maintenance where EU did not.

Yeah, it's not a 16 hr headstart at all. There's also the bugs US had to deal with.

[Relapses]

Second place is still second place.

Nah mate, I'm already seeing people envisioning an alternate reality where Echo didn't wipe during their reclears so they definitely killed it first. Echo in their limitless (sic) humility simply allowed NA to win out of pity so they can make next tier's race even more intense. Or, at least, that's what the script says.

[Orange Joe]

You're giving me the esports argument, I've heard it a million times because my best friends are 2 NA PUBG tier 1 pros and I've spoken to people in that space about it all the time. Look Orange, whatever way you spin this, you're wrong here. You cannot consider ANYTHING competitive unless you start at the same point, or are measured against the same ruler, that's just a fact. Your argument about needing to have the same PC's with addons/spec isn't true, its not any different to Olympic sprinters using different brands of running shoes, or as you might see in my name (I used to throw the javelin for GB) Javelin throwers owning their own Javelins of which there are a lot of brands, they fly different, they have different styles, all are legal.

If a guildy has such a bad PC that its causing them issues playing, then its the guilds job to replace them until they get a better spec pc.

If I said to you, if you are familiar with battle royale/PUBG, that NA teams can jump out of the plane 10 minutes before EU teams, and loot up, before playing the game, you'd say that's outrageous and ridiculous, and its not remotely fair or competitive as they simply don't start on a level footing, its no different with the world first. You cannot consider it fair in good conscience. PUBG pros compete regularly with their own PC specs, their own mice and keyboards, headphones and AMP's. But they play the same game on the same footing, and that's a competition.

In a perfect world, yes, all the players would be shipped out to a location, given 30 PC's, deprived of access to the internet/twitch with exception of access to world of warcraft servers, and set loose, with the public able to watch all teams streams, they would all start at the same time, on the same rigs, and nobody would be able to learn tactics from each other, and we could see the winner, but that isn't going to happen nor will a worldwide release be likely to happen, so for now the best solution is to fix up the criteria for world first, and by any measure the logical solution here is to judge them on how long it took them from their local release to their kill.

I'm sure you can switch out your peripherals ( mouse-keyboards/ shoes-javalins ) but everyone races on the same track in the same weather. ( pc / internet)


And I'm not saying it isn't still competitive. Just that the measurement for the best is kinda subjective atm.

To me it's just not that big of a deal, nor do I think it really is for the community either. World firsts are determined by the community, not blizzard. I don't feel blizzard should change something that effect millions of players to fix something for less than 1000's players.