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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Thokri View Post
    I used to like playing as resto but currently mythic and m+ feels so exhausting sometimes.

    Especially with DK but not only one.

    Even with precasting regrowth on pulls they pretty much get one shot more often than I would like to.

    And with DK often "okey he is doing fine" keeping 90s and bam. Dead. Had no time to use CD and pop insta.

    Not to mention no time to side-dps on pugs because dps take damage all the time. This weeks affix and melee dps... And of course they blame healer.


    Bosses otherwise are breeze and afkfest.

    Maybe it is just pugs.. Constantly only one who put up cc, soothe and dispel.

    I would understand on some 12+ etc. plus but on lowers..

    First week was blast but maybe it is just these affixes.

    Tips on spiteful with melee dps? keeping hots does not seem to be enough and god damn tank keeps taking all my instant and regrowth casts.
    Depends on level. Dk has lowest armor of all tanks and only has max from having full 10 stacks of boneshield which will rarely happen or maintain due to resource management and the way they're consumed by auto attacks and such. Also trash hits pretty damn hard with some abilities especially on fort weeks. That being said, many are still used to the strong nature of Legion BFA where now you pretty much have to go in with a decent CD into pulls if you don't have full stacks or RP. But other than I think maybe prot warriors, we're in a not so great place. I've run into issues with DHs really because everyone has to run the MDI meta/fotm and expect to just be op without knowing how their class works. All in all good tanks may require a bit more attention in healing depending on the trash or until we get more gear to out gear it /further tuning.

  2. #62
    These aren't tanks. They're dpsers who go tank spec, because they're more desirable, and then play like dpsers.

    I've seen multiple tanks just not use any of their damage mitigation buttons.
    Last edited by blankfaced; 2021-01-13 at 12:06 PM.
    I'm a thread killer.

  3. #63
    Stood in the Fire Zendhal The Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    you are aware that monks can cut that staggered dmg by half every couple sec with purifying brew?
    Its basically core of their defense
    I know that and my point still stands

    when warrior blocks, the damage is gone, when monk staggers, it's ticking untill he decides to clear

  4. #64
    Bloodsail Admiral kosajk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zendhal The Black View Post
    I know that and my point still stands

    when warrior blocks, the damage is gone, when monk staggers, it's ticking untill he decides to clear
    well warrior have to decide that he want to block to and usually know when he should do that
    just don`t see the problem but we
    bad player will tank badly that we can agree to for sure, rest are some imagined problems ;P

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  5. #65
    IS there a way to track when tanks use active mitigation visually? I can see Ironfur/Barkskin/SI in my healbot for example. Not sure if it exists for every tank.

  6. #66
    If your tank isn't constantly kiting and DPS aren't using binding shot etc then tanks are going to get deleted.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    Yeah they're currently trying to increase the survivability of both tanks so we'll see where that leads them in a few weeks.

    Blood
    [With regional restarts] Bone Shield grants armor equal to 70% of Strength (was 50%).

    ^ Is one such change coming after reset, so you should feel a bit of a survivability increase with Blood DKs.
    My dmg reduction went from 40.5% to 44%.
    3.5% / 40.5% = 8.6% less damage taken than before. Not the biggest buff but should be pretty good. We have a conduit that gives about 9% dmg reduction when we use lichborne and its one of our best ones. So this is like its up all the time. Should smooth us out a little more.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendhal The Black View Post
    I know that and my point still stands

    when warrior blocks, the damage is gone, when monk staggers, it's ticking untill he decides to clear
    "Until he decides to clear", uhh ISB is no longer a thing and there is no choice on when to clear stagger. You purify on CD, and its 2 charges even so save the extra charge for emergency situations. You don't seem to understand how brewmaster works this xpac.

  9. #69
    Blood DKs are pretty notorious for volatile health. Unless you play one, it's pretty hard to predict and they can easily die if they misstep before using their heals.

    As for healing in general, I do M10s-M11s and I find Druid is fine. It's still a semi-popular healing class at M15+ so Idt it's the class that is the issue.

    Just be a bit more careful when a tank if low and remember to use IronBark + Nature's Swiftness w/Regrowth + Swiftmend if you absolutely need a single target healing burst

  10. #70
    I tank myself, but Brewmaster seems to be fine.
    My selfheals feels great, stagger is amazing and I love being Necrolord for quicker CDs.
    Waaayy too many bad DKs though.
    They seem fixated on spending runepower on DPS instead of selfhealing om big DMG

  11. #71
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
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    Its not u imo. DK is a bit poor on M+ especially with no movement ability. Tanking is more like kiteing atm so that is the problem. When tank do not move he take seriously huge dmg. If dpsers dont aviod mechanics and not using ITERRUPTS witch is highly possible with pugs they take more dmg and tank or die.
    Last edited by czarek; 2021-02-05 at 07:58 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Naturalis View Post
    Blood DKs are pretty notorious for volatile health. Unless you play one, it's pretty hard to predict and they can easily die if they misstep before using their heals.

    As for healing in general, I do M10s-M11s and I find Druid is fine. It's still a semi-popular healing class at M15+ so Idt it's the class that is the issue.

    Just be a bit more careful when a tank if low and remember to use IronBark + Nature's Swiftness w/Regrowth + Swiftmend if you absolutely need a single target healing burst
    If u have SotF, use swiftmend first then swiftness + regrowth

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    I agree overall, wanted to point out how much of Guardian's power comes from their legendary (15% chance for Thrash to doubletap, can proc off itself, 75% of Thrash damage becomes an absorb) - without it they'd likely be the worst or one of the worst M+ tanks.

    I don't agree that Guardian damage is low though, but rather that DH and Paladins have OP damage, especially with the right Covenants (Kyrian Vengeance DH will end up with the majority of their damage being Elysian Decree, a Venthyr Prot Paladin will outDPS most people during Ashen Hollow).

    Just my notes as a Guardian Druid.

    Having healed a fair few M+, I'd also chime in with the "some tanks are just bad" movement - I pugged a Brewmaster in normal Nathria last night, who used Celestial Brew twice on a 7 minute boss fight.
    1. BDK are the squishiest of tanks. Personally I don't even invite blood dks to my M+ groups, it's like playing russian roulette, you don't know when they're just gonna...drop, resulting in a wipe.

    2. The game has gotten very difficult this expansion, with plenty of opportunities to fuck up.

  14. #74
    It's not you. Tanks take an unreasonable amount of damage in M+ at the moment. There were a few nerfs recently to fix the worst of it, but there is a reason why tanks have to kite so much.
    DKs especially are prone to damage spikes, it's not unusual to have them love 50+% health with a single hit from a mob. It IS stressful as a healer, especially with the time pressure in M+. I actually find healing raids a lot more relaxed, because there are two other healers who can compensate when I make a mistake. In M+, a single mistake can mean a wipe, and lead to the key being lost.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    1. BDK are the squishiest of tanks. Personally I don't even invite blood dks to my M+ groups, it's like playing russian roulette, you don't know when they're just gonna...drop, resulting in a wipe.

    2. The game has gotten very difficult this expansion, with plenty of opportunities to fuck up.
    1) Yep, definitely - the design is to make up for the squishiness with self healing, but if you time that wrong you're dead.

    2) Yeah though M+ has always been that way, a tank fucking up very often lead to the group dying.

  16. #76
    I've just notice a lot of dps swapping their spec to tank, throwing on the weapon/offhand for it and just queuing up to tank. Then they run the dungeon as a dpser basically, entirely ignoring using any active mitigation what so ever and they'll maybe pop their long CDS on a boss. But the rest of their resources they spend entirely on damage abilities.
    I'm a thread killer.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by LauraHydra1 View Post
    It's not you. Tanks take an unreasonable amount of damage in M+ at the moment. There were a few nerfs recently to fix the worst of it, but there is a reason why tanks have to kite so much.
    DKs especially are prone to damage spikes, it's not unusual to have them love 50+% health with a single hit from a mob. It IS stressful as a healer, especially with the time pressure in M+. I actually find healing raids a lot more relaxed, because there are two other healers who can compensate when I make a mistake. In M+, a single mistake can mean a wipe, and lead to the key being lost.
    My healers don't complain when I'm tanking on my blood DK alt. Curerntly doing between +8 and +11 keys mostly with pugs (or healer friends). When you make a big pull, its savage, u do drop very low, but even then I try to face tank as much as possible while my CDs are running. Gotta do that so be able to self heal, because if the mobs catch up, you die. And I choose to pull conservatively unless I know that the dps have their major cds up and they will use them.
    Always press rune tap on pull, 8 secs of 20% dmg reduction lets you worry about aggro and pooling runepower, and also venthyr covenant ability for extra dodge and runepower. When u get low, IF and VB (VB is on a nice low CD, so can be used every other pull, depending on dungeon and difficulty).
    Didn't have problems with kiting either, talented DnD + Death's Advance or venthyr teleport do the trick well enough for the initial kiting. That usually gives the dps enough time to realize that they need to stun/slow/push/root.
    Although there were some crazy moments this fortified week in De other Side with 2 big skeletons enraging at the end and almost 1-shotting me. But again, kiting worked fine. May be DH are better equipped, but DK can do it well enough when timed properly.

  18. #78
    The only tanks that give me headaches are DHs.
    I heal all tanks on 15.if it's a good player it's super chill.

    I never had a problem healing any of the other tanks.
    But bad DHs need so much heal that you can't heal the group or refresh hots.

    I did an +14 alt run with 205 dk tank and 205 healer we didn't wipe once. Timed it with 3 min spare. So dk tanks are totally fine.

    Sometimes you have a squishy tank and 2 dps that keep standing in the fire. It's annoying, but very hard to fail any runs.
    Last week I can't remember failing a run.
    And this week I only failed one run in plague fall where the group let the bomb explode 2 times at the boss.

    You kinda get used to squishy and bad tanks.
    Last edited by GnomeEU; 2021-02-05 at 01:28 PM.

  19. #79
    So yesterday evening I was doing a +10 De Other Side with a pug.

    No tank was signing up, so we waited for 15 min. Then someone from the group says he's got a friend who is a tank and is geared but he will come in 5 mins. So we waited 5 min more.
    So this guy joins the group...and is a blood dk. That was the 1st red flag.

    Ok, we start the dungeon, he seems to be making the healer's life miserable but we push through until we get to the first major pack: the ghost that knocks you off the platform, accompanied by a bunch of skeletons, and this this guy gets SMASHED! Holy shit, he gets smeared on the floor! And we wipe. Second attempt, he gets SMASHED again, 3 of us manage to stay alive while he resses and comes back and then gets SMASHED! The group leader says "Is this your first time tanking?", and I don't know what followed because I just clicked my hearthstone. It was clear that not only it wasn't gonna happen in time, but I doubted it was going to happen at all with a tank that is as squishy as a dps spec.

  20. #80
    It’s likely a mix of both.

    RDruids aren’t as strong in the current meta because at 10+, it’s kite-or-die on a lot of pulls.

    Warriors and BDK are among the least popular tanks at 10+ for a reason. They can’t kite for shit and magic damage mechanics just overwhelm the little mitigation they have.

    This is a really bad season to pug tanks.

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