Poll: Do you believe in psychics, extraterrestrial life, time travel, other universes?

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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And the person in question would be under "protection." (Doing what he or she is told, or else.)
    This is why Randi's fund is evidence against the supernatural. Because it complicates the claim. It's not just "magic powers exist"; now it's "Magic powers exist, and also there is a magical shadow government keeping it from us, and also not a single magical rebel has ever succeeded against that conspiracy"

  2. #342
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This psychics exist theory here has the wonderful property of being unfalsifiable. There are an arbitrary number of unfalsifiable theories; why should this one get our attention and not any of the others? I like the "undetectable ten legged unicorns" theory myself. Why don't we see them? Because they're undetectable, duh!
    "There is a 10 legged unicorn."
    Can I see him?
    "He is invisible."
    So can I touch him?
    "No, he is intangible too!"
    Does he make a sound?
    "Only when he wants to!"
    So we can't detect him?
    "Correct."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    This is why Randi's fund is evidence against the supernatural. Because it complicates the claim. It's not just "magic powers exist"; now it's "Magic powers exist, and also there is a magical shadow government keeping it from us, and also not a single magical rebel has ever succeeded against that conspiracy"
    It doesn't go that far.

    It would be "Magic powers exist, but for some reason none come forward."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    The point is that in order for something like that to exist, it would have to be proven. It had the burden of proof.

    Randi provided a very public, honest method for those who wished to prove it. And an incredible incentive to do so. And many did try. The fact that those failed is evidence against its existence, because it adds a complication to the already burdened: Not only must psychic powers exist, but no psychics, mediums, dousers, telekineticists, telepaths, (etc) at the same time could *and* would have bothered to prove it on a national stage when provided the riskless opportunity and significant incentive. If supernatural powers did exist, and as many people have them as are claimed, you'd think *one* of those people would have tried and succeeded.

    Unless you add in the possibility that James Randi had supernatural powers, lol.
    No, it really isn't. All it proves is that a lot of dumb people are stupid enough to believe that they either A: have supernatural abilities when they clearly don't, or B: honestly thought they could fool the guy offering the prize money and get away with it.

    Like I said. Anyone who honest to god actually had supernatural powers would be a literal imbecile to want to intentionally out themselves in any way that would draw attention such as these kinds of contests. Being able to actually prove that you have supernatural abilities would be a one way ticket to a government black site.

    So the existence of this guys "test" and the fact that nobody has "passed" in no way constitutes proof that supernatural powers do not exist. It proves that nobody has passed his test, but it doesn't prove that his test is therefore un-passable. The only way to do that would be to individually test every person on the planet in such a way that nobody could intentionally fail the test, which I am pretty sure would be impossible to do, as you can't design a test which can't be intentionally failed if you don't even understand how what you are testing for works.

  4. #344
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Psychics...I'm not sure but so far I don't think I've seen enough evidence

    Aliens? I think so....I find it hard to believe in this vast universe that there is no other sentient life

    Time travel? I don't know...perhaps one day it could be possible but I don't think it is now

    Other universes? That one I can't really say one way or the other...I had a dream about how I was in a parallel universe where I wasn't born and my Mom was still alive...but that isn't any proof lol
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    This really begs the question for *why* it would be a bad thing to announce. Murder trials and some missing persons cases would be a lot easier if "non-phony" mediums would contact the victims.
    Really? We live in a world where a significant chunk of the population of the planet thinks it's ok to literally murder people for being gay. Where all sorts of absolutely heinous shit goes down every single day in the name of "faith" and religious worship of invisible sky wizards, and you honestly have to ask why any rational individual wouldn't be absolutely terrified of coming forward and outright telling the world "I can cure illnesses with my mind", or "I can read your thoughts", or "I can kill you from a mile away just by thinking about it"?

    Like, we literally have entire genres of speculative fiction dedicated to exactly why that would likely end very, very badly for whoever tried it. There are only a few ways that kind of scenario plays out, and like 99% of them end up dealing with humanity doing that thing humanity does which inevitably results in the very worst aspects of it coming into play.

    I mean, just pick up pretty much any run of X-Men, find the part where humans are treating the mutants badly, and then multiply that by 100x, and that's about what you would likely end up with. If you were very very lucky.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Really? We live in a world where a significant chunk of the population of the planet thinks it's ok to literally murder people for being gay. Where all sorts of absolutely heinous shit goes down every single day in the name of "faith" and religious worship of invisible sky wizards, and you honestly have to ask why any rational individual wouldn't be absolutely terrified of coming forward and outright telling the world "I can cure illnesses with my mind", or "I can read your thoughts", or "I can kill you from a mile away just by thinking about it"?

    Like, we literally have entire genres of speculative fiction dedicated to exactly why that would likely end very, very badly for whoever tried it. There are only a few ways that kind of scenario plays out, and like 99% of them end up dealing with humanity doing that thing humanity does which inevitably results in the very worst aspects of it coming into play.

    I mean, just pick up pretty much any run of X-Men, find the part where humans are treating the mutants badly, and then multiply that by 100x, and that's about what you would likely end up with. If you were very very lucky.
    You're totally right about that. But this lane of thinking makes the proof of the existance of paranormal powers impossible. And while I would find it very cool that paranormal powers would exist, I don't believe that there are any. Its probably all just psychological phenomenons of minds tricking themselves. People are really good about that if they truly believe in something. Their mind kinda shapes the reality they perceive.

    Anyway, I think that extraterrestrial live is probable since the universe is quite extensive with a multitude of habitable worlds. But I would not expect these habitable planets to be homes to sentient life as we understand it.

    Other universes might exist, but we probably will never learn about them. So... I am neither believing nor denying this idea. Same about time travel. If there are beings which exist in more dimensions than ours, for whom time is nothing more than the x or y axis for us - easy to travel - then time travel exists. But I doubt that humans will ever be able to achieve something like that. Especially the case of travelling back in time.

    Anyway, I don't believe in any of them (though I find some of these cases probable to some degree). Because I don't want to believe, I want to know.

  7. #347
    Visions of the future (premonition/ clairvoyance / clairaudient experience / Deja Vu) are a thing.
    Personally many weird things of that nature happened to me.
    Even with my drawings as a kid.

    As a grown ass 30y old adult...i researched all my drawings as a kid and i was watching happenings of my grown self in those drawings.
    Weird as fuck.
    Can i control it? FUCKING NO.

    But who is to say no more weird shit like that is out there?

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadow View Post
    Visions of the future (premonition/ clairvoyance / clairaudient experience / Deja Vu) are a thing.
    Personally many weird things of that nature happened to me.
    Even with my drawings as a kid.

    As a grown ass 30y old adult...i researched all my drawings as a kid and i was watching happenings of my grown self in those drawings.
    Weird as fuck.
    Can i control it? FUCKING NO.

    But who is to say no more weird shit like that is out there?
    Press [X] to Doubt.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Press [X] to Doubt.
    You have all the reason in the world to doubt me.
    Specially because ive been in mental institution for several week "vacation"
    So...take it with a huge pile of salt instead of a grain.

  10. #350
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadow View Post
    Visions of the future (premonition/ clairvoyance / clairaudient experience / Deja Vu) are a thing.
    Personally many weird things of that nature happened to me.
    Even with my drawings as a kid.

    As a grown ass 30y old adult...i researched all my drawings as a kid and i was watching happenings of my grown self in those drawings.
    Weird as fuck.
    Can i control it? FUCKING NO.

    But who is to say no more weird shit like that is out there?
    How many experiences do you have a day, a week, a month, a year, or in a lifetime?
    Now think how many people exist on the world. Every day, dreaming, thinking, etc ...

    Every night people dream even if you don't remember it.

    The fact someone out there has things that line up from two different time periods in their lives is expected, and in fact, given the numbers we are talking about and the limited number of things people can do and the average length of our lives ... it is possible even all of us have something like this.

    This isn't evidence of psychic power because just saying event X happened and I drew it has a kid is meaningless. I recall a dream I had as a kid where I was being lectured by a teacher ... that dream came true in High School, my Junior year. Nope, because I was already familiar with school, teachers, and being lectured. My mind just had put the pieces of things together in the dream and it just happened to line up in my life.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    How many experiences do you have a day, a week, a month, a year, or in a lifetime?
    Now think how many people exist on the world. Every day, dreaming, thinking, etc ...

    Every night people dream even if you don't remember it.

    The fact someone out there has things that line up from two different time periods in their lives is expected, and in fact, given the numbers we are talking about and the limited number of things people can do and the average length of our lives ... it is possible even all of us have something like this.

    This isn't evidence of psychic power because just saying event X happened and I drew it has a kid is meaningless. I recall a dream I had as a kid where I was being lectured by a teacher ... that dream came true in High School, my Junior year. Nope, because I was already familiar with school, teachers, and being lectured. My mind just had put the pieces of things together in the dream and it just happened to line up in my life.
    It's also entirely possible that such phenomenon are just manifestations of quantum mechanics fucking with us, and not actually "supernatural" at all. Considering how very, very little we currently understand about quantum behavior most types of "psychic vision" events could simply be our brains brushing up against weird quantum background noise and being completely unable to properly process wtf just happened, resulting in all the crap people experience along those lines.

  12. #352
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    It's also entirely possible that such phenomenon are just manifestations of quantum mechanics fucking with us, and not actually "supernatural" at all. Considering how very, very little we currently understand about quantum behavior most types of "psychic vision" events could simply be our brains brushing up against weird quantum background noise and being completely unable to properly process wtf just happened, resulting in all the crap people experience along those lines.
    Essentially, yes.

    All we get is "This is a neat piece of data" ... nothing beyond that.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #353
    Psychics - Nay. Seems mostly like a con.

    Extraterrestrial life - I couldn't conceive of a reason why it wouldn't exist; why Earth, out of billions of solar systems and even more planets, would be the only planet to host sapient life.

    Time travel - Don't think it'll ever be possible in the way we tend to describe it in pop culture.

    Other universes - Quite sure those exist, that our universe is just one bubble of many, just as there are more solar systems and more galaxies beyond our own.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Extraterrestrial life - I couldn't conceive of a reason why it wouldn't exist; why Earth, out of billions of solar systems and even more planets, would be the only planet to host sapient life.
    The feeling you're having there is why many people think, unjustifiably, that life must be out there. It neglects to take into account observer selection bias. You consider ourselves to be nothing special, even though if intelligent life were rare any particular occurrence of it would have to be special. You are basically assuming the conclusion.

    Similar bogus Copernicanism led people in the 18th century to think all the planets in our solar system must have intelligent life on them.
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  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The feeling you're having there is why many people think, unjustifiably, that life must be out there. It neglects to take into account observer selection bias. You consider ourselves to be nothing special, even though if intelligent life were rare any particular occurrence of it would have to be special. You are basically assuming the conclusion.

    Similar bogus Copernicanism led people in the 18th century to think all the planets in our solar system must have intelligent life on them.
    I'm not stating it as fact, it's simply why I feel this way.

    I'm not going to claim I know the truth regarding extraterrestrial (sapient) life, and no one should- considering no one has that knowledge. But for the time being, I would have to ask myself why a relatively small planet in an unassuming solar system on a somewhat nice but in no way exceptional planet would be the only one in two trillion (and that's just the observable universe alone) galaxies where life would bloom and evolve in a manner similar to ours that it would grow intelligent enough to perceive itself and question its own life.

    For me, it would be more sensible to default to "Life is out there, we just haven't found it because we literally can't get much further than our little pond" than to rationalize our odds and try to explain why a single planet in a backwater solar system on the inner edge of the Orion Arm would be the only one to house intelligent life.

  16. #356
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The feeling you're having there is why many people think, unjustifiably, that life must be out there. It neglects to take into account observer selection bias. You consider ourselves to be nothing special, even though if intelligent life were rare any particular occurrence of it would have to be special. You are basically assuming the conclusion.

    Similar bogus Copernicanism led people in the 18th century to think all the planets in our solar system must have intelligent life on them.
    You do know that this same argument can be made by people making the arguments that life isn't possible or could be unlikely right? In fact, your posts arguing against the belief that non-earth life is likely is literally an example of observer selection bias per your own source as it is akin to underestimating the risk of impact events.

    I know you claim you aren't actually arguing that life isn't possible or isn't unlikely, just that we cannot assume it is. But, functionally, that is what you are doing. And how is that any less arguing from "selection bias", you have no reason to assume that the odds of life could be that low. Just because you can argue it is possible to be that low doesn't mean we have reason to assume it will be that low or even consider that it could be.

    You use selection bias when it suits you therefore you do not have a standing to tell other they "neglect it."
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-10-16 at 02:42 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  17. #357
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    No, as I said, I never know they're prophetic when I have them. I get a flash like "I've seen this before" when the event happens and then the dream comes back. I believe other people experience it and call it Deja Vu.
    So yeah, it is just deja vu, something which many people including myself have experienced. You aren't dreaming the future.

    What is actually happening is that your brain 'rewires' the moment an event happens and so it makes you believe that either: 1. "This has happened before". or 2. "I remember expecting this to happen". I've experienced both these situations and am under no illusions, I've not been seeing the future.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You do know that this same argument can be made by people making the arguments that life isn't possible or could be unlikely right? In fact, your posts arguing against the belief that non-earth life is likely is literally an example of observer selection bias per your own source as it is akin to underestimating the risk of impact events.
    You continue to make the same mistake. Post after post, even after I correct you, you keep making it. Let's try again.

    You are confusing "X is true" and "the evidence would compel a rational observer to admit X is likely to be true". These are different statements!

    It could be that life is common in the universe, and at the same time the evidence we have insufficient to compel one to believe or disbelieve that.

    In this thread, I have been telling you the second point (that the evidence is insufficient). I have not been telling you the first (that life is uncommon.)

    Can you see the difference between these points? If not, you're hopelessly confused, and this conversation is at a dead end.


    I know you claim you aren't actually arguing that life isn't possible or isn't unlikely, just that we cannot assume it is. But, functionally, that is what you are doing.
    No, that is NOT functionally what I am doing. The two statements are quite different. Your thinking that they are the same is the root of your confusion.

    And how is that any less arguing from "selection bias", you have no reason to assume that the odds of life could be that low.
    Which is fine, since that is not what I was doing. Your confusion of "X is true" and "the evidence is enough to compel someone to believe X" is making you mistakenly think I was doing that. But that's a non sequitur of your own creation.
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  19. #359
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    You continue to make the same mistake. Post after post, even after I correct you, you keep making it. Let's try again.

    You are confusing "X is true" and "the evidence would compel a rational observer to admit X is likely to be true". These are different statements!
    Yes, they are different, but irrelevant for the rest of the point I made.

    It could be that life is common in the universe, and at the same time the evidence we have insufficient to compel one to believe or disbelieve that.
    That is unproven assertion. That is what you feel to be true, not what is true. You do not know if we have insufficient evidence because your claim is built on that "There could be something rare we don't know." or that "There could be so step that is extremely rare." That is literally an argument based on selection bias, to make it you are selecting data that could exist that we don't have.

    By doing so you are ignoring or using it to lessen the evidence we do have. For example decades ago, our knowledge was that liquid water was required, that the star had to be a certain size, etc ... most of our assumptions on limits to life have been shown that we were too restrictive because of selection bias (ie looking for Earth like life, rather than what could be life.)

    No, that is NOT functionally what I am doing. The two statements are quite different. Your thinking that they are the same is the root of your confusion.
    Except you are. See above.

    Which is fine, since that is not what I was doing. Your confusion of "X is true" and "the evidence is enough to compel someone to believe X" is making you mistakenly think I was doing that. But that's a non sequitur of your own creation.
    Using different words does not change actions.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2021-10-16 at 03:56 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    That is unproven assertion. That is what you feel to be true, not what is true. You do not know if we have insufficient evidence because your claim is built on that "There could be something rare we don't know." That is literally an argument based on selection bias, to make it you are selecting data that could be unknown.
    NO! My argument is that there is lack of evidence. When I bring up the possibility that they are rare, it's to demonstrate that the evidence we have is compatible with that scenario, not to say that that scenario is true.

    You seem to have thought that I was saying that we should believe that scenario, when what I was saying is that we are not compelled to disbelieve that scenario.

    Understand now?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
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