Who went into the Maw, the proper way?

[kiramon]

Personally, I think Argus dies waaaaaay too late, to be what broke the Arbiter.

Blizzard wrote something like (and I cannot find the original quote) "Ursoc was one of the last souls to be judged by the Arbiter".

Xavius dies in the same raid, so only a few souls reach the Arbiter before Xavius.
Helya dies in the raid following Emerald Nightmare, so a few more than Xavius, but still not very many.
Then we have whole of Nighthold raid followed by all of Antorus where Argus is the final boss...

Combined with all the time that pass from Ursoc to Argus, cannot by any stretch be falling under "Ursoc was one of the last souls".

Personally, I don't think the Arbiter broke any later than Helya was killed; Xavius is my main suspect.

But until Blizzard either comes with a new quote, a new cinematic that explains it or something similar, we don't know.

What? do you think only the twelve raid bosses a tier go to be judged by the arbiter?

The last few of thousands of souls could include ursoc to Argus.

[FuxieDK]

What? do you think only the twelve raid bosses a tier go to be judged by the arbiter?

The last few of thousands of souls could include ursoc to Argus.

Ofc not...
But the chance of Joe Smith from down the street in number 77 breaking the Arbiter, are nil to not existing..And the odds of GUESSING it was Joe Smith, or his sister Josephine in number 84, are even worse.

But we can use bosses in raids for establishing timeliness, as they are chronological (with few exceptions, such as Cavern of Time).

E.g. we know that Ysera dies before Ursoc and Ursoc was judged, so Ysera cannot have broken it.

[huth]

Ysera dies (long) before we enter the Emerald Nightmare. We've all done the quest line in Val'sharah; first she's corrupted by Xavius, then we kill her to finish up the zone. We free Malfurion in the instance (forgot the name) so he can help us in Emerald Nightmare.

All this takes place before Emerald Nightmare, i.e. before Ursoc is killed.

It takes place before the EN raid. But not long before the EN raid, which is why they both end up in the same batch.

[FuxieDK]

It takes place before the EN raid. But not long before the EN raid, which is why they both end up in the same batch.

It doesn't matter, and stop derailing the thread anymore; a second or a millenium, Ysera dies before Ursoc.

Neither are in the Maw, so WHO CARES? It's not the scope of this thread.

[huth]

It doesn't matter, and stop derailing the thread anymore; a second or a millenium, Ysera dies before Ursoc.

Neither are in the Maw, so WHO CARES? It's not the scope of this thread.

You, obviously, since you brought it up in the first place.

[sillag]

aight heres the thing. no one gets sent to the maw because the maw isn't actually meant to exist as part of the system.

things have been fucked up since before we ever got there but the maw used to be a different thing as u can see from the ruins around it. whatever incident happened with zovaal involved him completely fucking it up and turning it into the maw. they won't tell us what happened until the cutscene is ready tho.

who is the one actually yeeting people into the maw? denathrius, who is the jailer's buddy and deliberately feeding him anima and souls. literally no one is meant to go in the maw. most people in the shadowlands don't remember that far back, they all just shrug and say its the purpose anyway. only the eternal ones know what was up and they prolly figured this was the only solution they have after the jailer broke whatever part of the shadowlands he used to be responsible for.

the writers are really bad and in this case they are trying to write a happy "no one is beyond redemption" story but illustrating it with redeeming hitler again and again. idk what danuser and afrasiabi's obsession with redeeming genocidal dictators is but someone should probably check their cupboards for nazi paraphernalia. but yea the takeaway from shadowlands will be that the maw was never part of it and really no one is beyond a hope of redemption. everyone will hate it as usual but then the next expansion will show up and we will all forget shadowlands and go back to arguing about teldrassil

[TigTone]

The worst of the worst we have faced have been demons and old gods/void minions. And they all have their own Afterlives planes.

Off the top of my head I can’t think of any mortal (not demon/void) we have faced that was evil enough to be tossed into the Maw.

[FuxieDK]

The worst of the worst we have faced have been demons and old gods/void minions. And they all have their own Afterlives planes..

There is no proof of that.

Blizzard have even confirmed that Titans DO NOT trancend reality the same way demons do (e.g. when they die they die, AU had their own Patheon apart from MU etc). There are no idications that Old Gods and their minions are any different.

We ONLY have confirmation that Demons have special protocols, when they die.......and that's outside the Twisting Nether; we know NOTHING of when they die IN Twisting Nether, except they die-die (or maybe go to Shadowlands for all we know).

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

There is no proof of that.

Blizzard have even confirmed that Titans DO NOT trancend reality the same way demons do (e.g. when they die they die, AU had their own Patheon apart from MU etc). There are no idications that Old Gods and their minions are any different.

We ONLY have confirmation that Demons have special protocols, when they die.......and that's outside the Twisting Nether; we know NOTHING of when they die IN Twisting Nether, except they die-die (or maybe go to Shadowlands for all we know).

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...nds-interview/

Other cosmic force characters (Life, Death, Order, Disorder, Light, Void), like the Naaru, don't go to the Shadowlands when they die, as they go back to their point of origin and reform over time, barring any intervention.

[Aucald]

There is no proof of that.

Blizzard have even confirmed that Titans DO NOT trancend reality the same way demons do (e.g. when they die they die, AU had their own Patheon apart from MU etc). There are no idications that Old Gods and their minions are any different.

We ONLY have confirmation that Demons have special protocols, when they die.......and that's outside the Twisting Nether; we know NOTHING of when they die IN Twisting Nether, except they die-die (or maybe go to Shadowlands for all we know).

The Kyrian Covenant quests also confirm the Naaru specifically don't go the Shadowlands (instead returning to the Light itself), as you accompany a Bearer on their rounds to judge dead souls.

[Hobbidaggy]

It is just a hunch, but it could literally be anything.

Pretty sure it was Helya as she made a deal with the already Jailer aligned Sylvanis and the raid after we kill Ursoc (who travelled correctly to Ardenweald) is where we kill Helya. It just seems too convenient that a being who already had knowledge and had seen into the shadowlands died and then suddenly the shadowlands stopped “working” and the being who died is jailer aligned as we see when we get to the maw and she said whacks us off the bridge into the river of souls

[Dundebuns]

Abercrombie from Darkshire. He wanted to kill people indiscriminately.

[Unholyground]

Pretty sure it was Helya as she made a deal with the already Jailer aligned Sylvanis and the raid after we kill Ursoc (who travelled correctly to Ardenweald) is where we kill Helya. It just seems too convenient that a being who already had knowledge and had seen into the shadowlands died and then suddenly the shadowlands stopped “working” and the being who died is jailer aligned as we see when we get to the maw and she said whacks us off the bridge into the river of souls

it could have been when Ysera died too because she was corrupted with the red nightmare color.

[JustinJgh]

Most qualify for Revendreth or zones like it that we know not about.

The bulk of the maw souls come from the flunk outs of those zones, already beaten and drained of most of their anima.

This gives the maw it's purpose while also preventing the maw from becoming anima rich.

This is the proper answer.

[FuxieDK]

it could have been when Ysera died too because she was corrupted with the red nightmare color.

As pointed out several times; the Arbiter worked when Ursoc was killed, so it wasn't Ysera.

[Eapoe]

That was his starting point though, when he was still Human. KT was one of, if not the single most loyal servants of the LK in WC3, and could have betrayed him multiple times. If he didn't save Arthas in the Frozen Throne campaign (when LK lost control of some of the Scourge who turned into the Forsaken), the Scourge would have been destroyed right there. No DK Arthas = LK gets destroyed by Illidan.

He might have been "forced" into it from the beginning, but quickly embraced his role, and would most certainly be close to the top of the list of potential "straight to the Maw" candidates.

The Maw is for irredeemable souls. KT being forced into it means there is a chance for a different outcome, a chance to be redeemed and recognize his crimes.
Arthas, on the other hand, has shown no redeeming qualities as everything was his willing choice with no reservations.

[bagina]

what danuser and afrasiabi's obsession with redeeming genocidal dictators is but someone should probably check their cupboards for nazi paraphernalia

Stop mixing up fiction and reality, it's not healthy. I'm sure you think horror writers are all secretly serial killers right? Besides if anything their obsession with forgiveness and turning the other cheek would make them the opposite of that. Also, you know that there were people infinitely worse than Hitler in history right? You can use them as a better example instead. The list doesn't end on Hitler. Get creative.

[Pwaite2]

Very simple.

AU Gul'dan: dies. Gets sent to the Shadowlands.

Arbiter: WTF, I've already met you before (remembering MU Gul'dan).

Arbiter.exe stopped working.

[Hobbidaggy]

it could have been when Ysera died too because she was corrupted with the red nightmare color.

It’s of died after her though. So good idea but not sure it would work. Also she was specifically taken there by Elune when she died.

- - - Updated - - -

Very simple.

AU Gul'dan: dies. Gets sent to the Shadowlands.

Arbiter: WTF, I've already met you before (remembering MU Gul'dan).

Arbiter.exe stopped working.

Ohhhh we just need to end task her and restart the application

[Unholyground]

It’s of died after her though. So good idea but not sure it would work. Also she was specifically taken there by Elune when she died.

Is it possible that it was a Elunes intervention that caused it?