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  1. #1
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Burnt Totem from Torghast - Thrall a Shaman again?

    From Torghast this week we get a totem and apparently it's supposed to help us find Thrall right? However he has been shown to just be a warrior now. If he uses totems again does that mean he is a shaman again? Was this just an oversight? Why was Thrall still carrying totems/why weren't they confiscated?

    Has the torture in the maw forced him to reflect and now he is the Avatar, master of all 4 elements again?

  2. #2
    Thrall was always a shaman since Wc3.

    Just because he doubted himself it doesn't mean he class-changed.
    Lore characters have special treatment(such as priests wearing plate armor).
    Last edited by Eazy; 2020-12-26 at 11:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Thrall was always a shaman since Wc3.

    Just because he doubted himself it doesn't mean he has class-changed.
    And lore characters have special treatment(such as priests wearing plate armor).
    But Thrall has been shown to not be able to use the elements anymore. For example, in the Maw questline he never once used any shaman abilities.

    Maybe Thrall still kept a totem with him as a memento?

    Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?

  4. #4
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?
    Well when doing Torghast runs i regularly see fire elements attacking the maw mobs, and there's a number of cases of void/light/fel/nature around/attacking shadowlands maybe the explanation is the other realms are invading and we just borrowing/ hijack their power.

  5. #5
    Certain members of the quest team forgot, most likely.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    But Thrall has been shown to not be able to use the elements anymore. For example, in the Maw questline he never once used any shaman abilities.

    Maybe Thrall still kept a totem with him as a memento?

    Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?
    In the maw intro quests, when you do the one where you find him a new weapon he does note that the axe is a 'true warriors weapon'. Probably doesn't mean as much but I thought it was noted that since WoD and giving up Doomhammer he hasn't been able to call upon the elements.
    RETH

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    But Thrall has been shown to not be able to use the elements anymore. For example, in the Maw questline he never once used any shaman abilities.

    Maybe Thrall still kept a totem with him as a memento?

    Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?
    Lore wise... even if Thrall wanted to, there shouldn't even be elements for him to call upon. He had enough problems on alternate Dreanor.
    The totem is likely just leftover from the good old days.

  8. #8
    Warchief Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    I think he's trying to be? I know he lost his power in Legion because our Shaman character(s) get to have the Doomhammer. He also threw his axe at Helya, so maybe he's looking for another source of power?

    I see dead people.... Yes, kinda my ting, ya know

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Chuupag's Avatar
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    It's not that he gave up doomhammer or anything. He cheated in the makgora against Garrosh. He effectively executed him with the elements in a fight that was supposed to be physical only...no magic. He felt such regret/remorse at cheating that he basically felt he was no longer worthy of harnessing the elements. Whether this is a internal or external thing had not been fully explained.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Lore wise... even if Thrall wanted to, there shouldn't even be elements for him to call upon. He had enough problems on alternate Dreanor.
    The totem is likely just leftover from the good old days.
    There are elementals in the Maw.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    In the maw intro quests, when you do the one where you find him a new weapon he does note that the axe is a 'true warriors weapon'. Probably doesn't mean as much but I thought it was noted that since WoD and giving up Doomhammer he hasn't been able to call upon the elements.
    Or it could be the orc's racial affinity for axes above everything else, he even takes time to point out he doesn't understand the Alliance's love of swords.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalontas View Post
    There are elementals in the Maw.
    That doesn't mean they will answer to him. Shaman have a pact of sorts with the elements. We aren't exactly in the land of the living with an elemental plane. Who knows if and who he would call to, not to mention the elements of our plane of existence have already stopped answering him.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    But Thrall has been shown to not be able to use the elements anymore. For example, in the Maw questline he never once used any shaman abilities.

    Maybe Thrall still kept a totem with him as a memento?

    Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?
    Thrall was forsaken by the Elements after what happened with Garrosh on AUDraenor(which is honestly a huge plothole, but that's a different story), the elements are still willing to help him when he's in dire need, as we saw very briefly when you acquire Doomhammer as an Enhancement Shaman. But who knows how the elements work in Shadowlands(obviously as player Shaman you're not going to lose your movekit), for all we know the Maw has it's own elemental powers being imprisoned and they're willing to help Thrall for their freedom.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    [...] Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?
    There's elements in the Shadowlands, otherwise there would be nothing for you to stand on, breathe, or drink.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Certain members of the quest team forgot, most likely.
    I agree. Unless there's a massive revelation that wasn't datamined and when we find him the elements heed his call again, this is an error made by someone on the quest team who needed a "thrall item" and forgot he doesn't use or carry totems now.

  16. #16
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly from the Beta, when Thrall is rescued from the Maw he successfully uses the elements to defend himself and the Maw Walker - it seems like a heavy exertion for him, but he is capable of it. Whether or not this will be the case in Live is unknown, though.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    It's not that he gave up doomhammer or anything. He cheated in the makgora against Garrosh. He effectively executed him with the elements in a fight that was supposed to be physical only...no magic. He felt such regret/remorse at cheating that he basically felt he was no longer worthy of harnessing the elements. Whether this is a internal or external thing had not been fully explained.
    Thrall didn’t cheat any Mak’gora, plenty of evidence to suggest magic is allowed in Mak’gora including their first one pre-wotlk. It also explains in the Doomhammer artefact book why he lost his connection to the elements.

  18. #18
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    From Torghast this week we get a totem and apparently it's supposed to help us find Thrall right? However he has been shown to just be a warrior now. If he uses totems again does that mean he is a shaman again? Was this just an oversight? Why was Thrall still carrying totems/why weren't they confiscated?

    Has the torture in the maw forced him to reflect and now he is the Avatar, master of all 4 elements again?
    It's been pretty heavily implied since Legion that Thrall's inability to call on the elements was self-inflicted, subconscious guilt about cheating in the mak'gora with Garrosh. One would assume, with his spirituality being such a major facet of who he was for so long, he would continue to carry his totems and pay homage to the spirits in the hopes of one day 'earning their forgiveness' (read: forgiving himself). Doubt has been a big facet of his post-Legion characterization as he's had to witness the fallout of his shortcomings made manifest in the Horde's slips into cruelty and the needlessly-hard living conditions in Orgrimmar made worse.

    One would imagine being tortured by the Jailor has provided perspective and assisted Thrall in getting the hell over himself.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  19. #19
    Spoilers: He uses elemental abilities when we rescue him.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    But Thrall has been shown to not be able to use the elements anymore. For example, in the Maw questline he never once used any shaman abilities.

    Maybe Thrall still kept a totem with him as a memento?

    Anyway, is there a lore explanation for how shamans would even be able to use their powers in the Shadowlands?
    Thral has been struggeling with hes powers for some time now.. hes kinda a loser like baine didn't you know?

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