I leveled a Character just to dispute the Torghast claims - My results;

[deenman]

My friend is the worst rogue on the planet and he can use his two brain cells to do the anemic version of Torghast that is currently in the game.

never underestimate just how bad some players can be,remember mop challenge modes?players by the thausands were stuck in nromal dungeons,torghast by comparison is LEAGUES harder than challenge mode silver

[Matsumotto]

Let's be honest, it all has to do with the powers you pick. Some make everything SO much easier, it's not even funny. I cba finishing 7 because i was waiting for CDs as a feral, but it's mostly a waste of time where you have to pick as much dmg as possible for the bosses while trying to get powers that also heal you or some other gimmick to keep you alive on "trash"...it's boring and not fun imo, especially when you know you can go on but it's risky unless you have your CDs ready....with no timer, it's easy to just wait it out, but that leads to really crap gameplay...
I looked over your story but i don't think i've seen anywhere where you put down how long it took you to finish 7 and 8.

[Othraerir]

sometimes it depends what end boss it is, some are way harder than others

[ro9ue]

Cleared both current layer 8s on my Assassin rogue, ilevel 175 ish. The recent nerfs to Torghast make this whole thread a non-issue.

[Crackleslap]

Weird. I am currently ilvl 200 rog and have never felt a reliance on specific powers in Torghast (before & after Torghast nerfs/rogue anima power buffs). Always cleared all the lvls without any problems.

My first run that i failed one had a pack of ghosts with some elites seeing invisibility and their spells went through my cloak apparently and I couldn't aoe them down fast enough that I just get killed instantly. Can't sap them, so only have 1 cc to use. Tried agroing them and vanishing, which usually works but there's one particular ghost that doesn't give af and attacks u anyway and ruins the vanish so result is death.

The 2nd run was a breeze, but that first one i truly had the bottom of the fucking barrel of anima powers.

[lordjust]

Could you try to do a run as frost? Because arcane is very good at burst damage.

The problem with Torghast wasn't that it was hard, but unbalanced. There are some classes and specs that still have bad anima powers like warriors. A lot of defensive powers and very low base damage. With the stacking buff from elite mobs you need high dps and if you don't get good powers or a bad layout the run is impossible. Got one where on floor 5 there were 2x2 elite packs just before the floor boss and if you pulled one, you pulled all 4 elite who all get the stacking buff.

I mean warriors specificly have a lot of bad anima powers. Increased condemn damage is fine, but you can use it only above 80% mob HP and below 20/35%, so the majority of a fight you can't use it. Increased damage for mobs that are affected by one of your shouts is only useful if you have another anima power that increases the duration of your shouts and most powers for warrior are only useful if they are combined with other powers because the powers on their own are too weak. The vase one that is very strong for most classes is very weak for warriors because it boosts slam which does like no damage. With 100 stacks which takes like a full run to build up you hit for like 140k which is about 20% of the boss HP.

With the buff to get more anima powers and the upgrades from venari to get epic powers more often and get one cheap anima power for just 5 phantasma smoothes the runs but there are still situations that are impossible to overcome because you lack the necessary dps because your base damage is too low, so that the anima power buffs bring you only up to baseline damage from other classes and your class has in general more defensive power than offensive powers so the chance to even get to baseline damage of other classes is lower.

[StillMcfuu]

I think the only people having trouble with torghast just aren't very good at their specs. Well that may be unfair, some specs require goofier builds. Ie best damage for dk is this awkward pet summon build where you are killing in a 3 second window after casting bolt to summon pets from the mobs.

I just don't think people understand their class enough to know what the abilities are actually doing for them.
Hot tip for rogue: stack 150% combo gen after a finisher, with 25% increased evis dmg. If you get the purple that gives you 400% to finisher after a SS, even better but not necessary. I've popped off with 35k+ dps and solo killed bosses with a second person in the party standing around doing nothing.
Defensive wise you only need an extension to abilities or if you get the blue early enough that extends evasion if you dodge. More health is useful as well because crimson vial is % based.
Another fun purple of you get it is the one that mirrors half damage onto blinded or sapped target.

[un_known]

or an Arms Warrior and let me know how ya fare

/hello arms warrior here and I have no problem with torghast at all I breeze through layer 8 like it were nothing. Especially if you’re venthyr and have the condemn anima combo which allows condemn to be used whenever and gives a 0.5 sec stun this was done pre-nerf btw

[T-34]

never underestimate just how bad some players can be,remember mop challenge modes?players by the thausands were stuck in nromal dungeons,torghast by comparison is LEAGUES harder than challenge mode silver

And bad players always blame someone else, the system, Blizzard, my "class/spec is bad", the community, the "toxic people" for their inability to do stuff, never themselves.
That is why the bad players take up so much "space". They simply spend a lot of time on whining.

I know plenty of low-skilled players that are aware of their weaknesses, but they either don't do stuff they are unable to do or they try to get better, but they never ever throw baby tantrums.

[Xath]

Torg isn't hard it's just annoyingly long

[Biomega]

It varies a lot depending on what class you are. Some have an easier time, some have a harder time; some need good anima power RNG, some can get by even with poor anima power RNG.

Playing on a Warlock, layer 8 was an absolute joke even pre nerf. I never failed a run, ever, regardless of power RNG. A pet tank, massive CC, and a huge array of useful powers is just amazing.

On a Rogue, pre-nerf layer 8 was very difficult, and I failed a few runs where all the powers I got were absolute dogshit. Rogue anima powers seem fairly tame compared to what some other classes get, and without good RNG it was very difficult to win. Post nerf it's not that big a deal, because gear can compensate more for bad powers. It's still miles less fun, though.

[Eapoe]

Things to keep in mind:
This post is made post nerf, after Blizz buffed warriors and rogues, and then made it more accessible to all others afterwards by nerfing Torghast overall.
How many people, on both sides of the arguement, have unlocked the buffs from Ve’nari that are account wide and give things like: more chances at epic anima powers or better selection?

Now, I haven’t bothered leveling a Rogue or Mage yet, and when I do it will probably just be to dabble and not bother with Torghast runs at all outside of any campaign quests for Renown (which tend to be the easiest). That stated, it means I don’t know what other players have gone thru, but I’m sure I won’t make a thread about how easy it is now compared to then.

[Tesshin83]

The problem is people, not Torghast.

People these days somehow feel entitled to pull the entire floor and then aoe everything. If that doesn't work, its overtuned and their class sucks and the rest of it

[Your Mommy]

"Torghast is hard"

I don't think anyone ever said Torghast was hard. They said it was annoying and unfun to do, just like Island Expeditions before and since it is tied up to character and legendary progression, they asked Blizzard to make it more of a weekly breeze through.

[chiddie]

gearing is still a fucking meme. You can get 180 in less than 5 hours played time.

I really wonder how, I’m still 177 with my main, I played far more than 5 hours and besides the lack of legendary (Thorgast wing I need is still closed) I have no other ways to raise ilvl apart from doing M0 (that I can’t even spam because they are weekly locked) and praise the loot Lord.

[Zalraki]

As a feral druid or enhancement shaman I can still say that Torghast is simply not worth the time or annoyance. Having to kill between 100 and 150 mobs for little to no reward just isn't fun as it stands, even with the nerfs. I wouldn't mind if they made it harder again, just stop with the artificial time inflation by putting in so many enemies.

[Hypasonic]

Honestly I think it just depends on which boss you get for your class. I just finished doing every torghast layer on my new shaman as ele in 166 gear, wasn't really difficult just time consuming. I do know though, that without my earth elemental it would have been x10 harder. But the fact you need to do 9 floors on new alts just grinds my gears, why not let us start from floor 4 or 5 or something on alts when you've already opened up all layters on another char? Such an obvious QoL change.

[Knight Meta]

Anyone that has studied the changers to their class, learned all the new systems, leveled from 50-60, run a dozen mythics, run more keystones on top of that, and hit an ilvl in the 180s is nolifing this game. Who has TIME for all of that?

I wuld say normies are at best in the 170s. Casuals are just hitting level 60.

If one can't be bothered to put some backbone into their gearing (Or even paying attention to what the enemies in the Tower does for that matter) - Then you clearly do not NEED the legendary. No one "Who at best" is 170 at this point in the expansion NEEDS a Legendary. In no way can these people join content where a Legendary would be "mandatory" - Besides, Layer 8 in itself only gives 40 dust. People in this bracket can just do the lower layers, still get a decent chunk of Soul Ash and call it a day, there is no "NEED" for anyone who has decided not to climb higher than 170 by now to be able to clear out the highest Layers.

These three statements don't really work together. You didn't "sweep out this joke of a tower", you barely scraped through despite having higher ilevel than probably 99% of the playerbase (because the majority of the general players don't do mythics, let alone all of them in a week + keystones); sitting on a bunch of CDs to ensure significant usage; making heavy usage of invisibility; and presumably being fairly good at the game compared to the average player skill.

Like I get that you made this post for the sole sake of stroking yourself off, but if you stopped doing that for a second you'd see your own experiment proves very readily that an average player of average skill and average item level would find the back two-thirds of torghast very overtuned on classes that aren't stacked for it, even with sitting on CDs, something that obviously wasn't the original intent given their (especially early) attempts to mechanically dissuade players from doing so.

While I now look back and realize that I did not make this clear enough in my main post - I sort of made it more apparent with my reply to user "Scathan"; yet as I do not expect you to look trough all the comment, allow me to clarify something. As I already DID say; the layout of the Grapple Platforms and their "forced" combat can catch people off guard yet out of my 3 legitimate deaths; only 1 was on a platform I HAD to grapple too in order to get past the floor. 2 Deaths was due to me being stubborn and refusing to leave the floor without clearing everything and claiming that Chest + Jar that was hiding on top of the very same platform I died twice on. (This is the platform where I ended up popping TW as I mentioned in the core post)

So looking apart from me being stupid in regards to the Rocket Boots; I could easily have ended that run with 4 deaths remaining. And anyone who rather struggles and / or finds Torghast to be a slog they wish to get over with quickly; they could in my situation - Just have skipped that platform entirely and saved themselves the potential deaths. With this knowledge it would be nice if you would refrain from attempting to put any "Oh well but what if people want to clear everything out / Oh others would have needed those Anima cells and would thus have been forced to clear said platform" nonsense in a potential reply. As that just is not the case; my stubbornness does not translate to that the tower is hard.

I don't think anyone ever said Torghast was hard. They said it was annoying and unfun to do, just like Island Expeditions before and since it is tied up to character and legendary progression, they asked Blizzard to make it more of a weekly breeze through.

No. There has been a galactic ton of people claiming the Tower is hard. After all; the health, damage, amount of casts and general difficulty of enemies was lowered in ADDITION to that a decent coupled of anima powers was buffed. Had the general complaints been that the tower was slow / boring; they should rather have further shifted the amount of soul ash spacing between floors, giving the lower ones even more Ash and the higher ones less. This would allow people who likes to push Torghast for the challenge of it / those that "NEEDS" to minmax (And these people should have NO issue clearing the tower) to get the appropriate amount of Soul Ash while allowing people who find it boring to just do layers 1-4 or 5 and get "enough" Soul Ash to work with.

That or they could shorten down the layouts. Simply take the weeks where certain wings is not open and work on them internally to decrease their length. But this did not happen, things was nerfed - Not due to an overwhelming amount of people saying it was long / boring. But an absolutely insane amount of people saying it was "too hard"

So yes. People did ever say Torghast was hard, tons of people did.

[8bithamster]

So, to summarize this topic:

OP wants to stroke his e-peen going "look at how good I am guyzzz"
People say that Torghast is tedious and some floor layouts are annoying
The reply "OMG TORGHAST ISNT HARD LOLOLOL I did it on my rogue in 170, wtfbbq you scrub"
other people reply they missed the point

and people start whinging about how torghast is or isn't hard

This is the thread that just keeps giving

[tru]

Pretty sure Mages had an Anima Power that would turn one non-elite into a sheep, and in 10 seconds, one tap of ice lance made them explode wiping out every other mob around them. Mage was not a solid choice for testing. Go back in as an Assassin Rogue, or an Arms Warrior and let me know how ya fare

Arms main. Before the nerf layer 4 or 5 I forget the very first mob 1 mob big ass elite I couldn't kill it every cd possible the vial with extra heal% on it. I just couldn't do it while the week before my first week doing it I cleared all fairly easy. Still haven't made my first lego so I got ash banked not like I'm in a rush anyway. It's just funny I have to pick so many powers that are defensive. Hope I get the die by the sword duration or ignore pain chance to proc DbTS. On my huntard basically whatever. Same for dk.