I leveled a Character just to dispute the Torghast claims - My results;

[callipygoustp]

Many responses in this thread reaffirm my choice to not provide guidance to unknown players. Good god the negativity.

[Knight Meta]

You do realize by doing that, they made the tower take way less time to finish, right? So yeah, they did fix it so people can finish it faster.

The problem here which you rather CHOOSE to ignore or simply are too ignorant to realize is that it was the wrong way to make it faster. The Tower did not need the nerfs it got; nerfs it recieved due to a majority of players providing feedback regarding the tower complaining that it was too hard, not that it was too slow / boring. I am in NO way trying to say that no one said the tower wasn't slow / boring as those were complaints in the mix as well, but they were nowhere near as many as the general complaints about the tower being difficult. And I honestly do not doubt that a great amount of those difficulty complaints is mostly grounded in; yes - The amount of time the tower tok, but this is where my explanation on how the tower should have been nerfed comes into play. If people's complaints was in majority of "The slow pace" opposed to "This is too hard" - Then we would likely have seen a better "Nerf" along the lines of what I said as that would make the tower "faster" for a majority of players as they simply would not need to do the highest layers while still getting a larger brunt of the Soul Ash. It's no wonder that there always is complaints with balance patches when Blizzard keeps misunderstanding feedback / the players gives the wrong type of feedback. And my thread here is grounded in the fact that people did and still are complaining that the tower is hard to complete, not that it is slow.

In here, you're just giving another fix on how to make the tower faster and easier to breeze through. It doesn't mean the way Blizzard handled it didn't enable that as it allowed people to finish the tower faster after all.
Different approaches, same destination.

All I will say to this is just see my reply above as the point still stands. People saying that non-challenging content is too hard just because it takes time leads to the wrong type of adjustments, had they simply changed the Soul Ash values; I think we would have had the most positive reception as players who enjoy what challenges the tower gave would keep that aspect while people who complain could not do just the first 4-6 layers and get all the Soul Ash they needed while not feeling the imaginary pressure of "having" to do the upper floors due to the low amount of Soul Ash it would grant. This would again maybe be a prickle for those few that; does not like Torghast but who still has the gear and skill to easily sweep the place out; but that bracket of people is in way less a majority when compared to the people that just cried out that the tower was too hard. Unfortunately not everyone can be happy; I know. But the changes done to the tower could have been handled way better.

I have yet to meet anyone that said Torghast was "hard". But then again, I didn't go on a cherry-picking crusade to find people who said it did.
With that much effort I am sure you can find people who find LFR hard as well.

This comment just proves how out of touch you are with the community side of WoW and I would please ask you to refrain from making claims based on your narrow observations going forward. The fact that you have the audacity to try and sound smart here by claiming that you have yet to meet anyone who says the tower is hard means that you have rather spoken with no one or have an extreme case of selective hearing and / or selective reading. Just smashing "Torghast difficulty" in on Google will showcase many a threads from the EU and US forums as well with Reddit threads and entries from other WoW community pages where the difficulty of the tower is repeated time and time again. On the other hand, if you search something like "Torghast slow" or "Torghast time" (Or anything to make time the relevant factor) you will still find that there is a larger number of voices in relevant threads to the slow pace of the tower that complains about the difficulty. That you at all can manage to delude yourself into thinking that the slow pace of the tower ever was more outspoken of a problem as opposed to the challenge really shows how little attention you pay to what's going on.

Yeah I know. At this point I am just playing along. This entire thread is a weird flex by the OP.

This reeks of "I play WoW like it is my job, I excel at it - so fuck everyone else....you are all wrong"

Having 4 chars maxed and geared beyond 170 with multiple mythic dungeons is not what the game is designed around. At least that is my take on this. Sounds to me that your endgame should be mythic raids and mythic keystones and well..yes, eventually you will get your climb to the top of Twisting corridors and the mount and as it is...don't worry...very very few ppl will be able to get that mount at all.

At ilv 160 on a Prot Paladin, I found the recent run in Torghast enjoyable. Only 1 death due to stupidity (feared off the edges) - but I can also see that very soon I will not be able to climb further

So, to summarize this topic:

OP wants to stroke his e-peen going "look at how good I am guyzzz"
People say that Torghast is tedious and some floor layouts are annoying
The reply "OMG TORGHAST ISNT HARD LOLOLOL I did it on my rogue in 170, wtfbbq you scrub"
other people reply they missed the point

and people start whinging about how torghast is or isn't hard

This is the thread that just keeps giving

I decided to bulk all of you three together here at the end; not just to say - You three should forge a Guild / Community for likeminded individuals but also to flush out that you are all some propper C grade Trolls at best. The way 8bithamster goes at it makes it clear that the expectations here was that my thread was just another short "BS" thread - Yet upon seeing that it was a propper thread with meat on the bone; you pretty much ran into an internal error and the nonsense which is your comment was the best your could muster. Neither of you (Like many others) are contributing with anything of value or propper feedback to this thread's topic. I would kindly ask all three of you to actually tune in to the current state of the game and consider looking into how WoW works before posting comments with no purpose other than making a mockery out of yourselves. If this thread is something you all take as "A flex" or "e-peen" then I would really advice you to follow trough on my suggestion and make a community for likeminded individuals it is is clear that non of you would be welcome in regular WoW content by any means.

Edit; Late realization but I figured I'd have to toss this one in just for the heck of it - I would like if at least one of you responded with something along the lines of: "Man you were easy to bait" or anything down that line. It would really just place the cherry on top of everything you clearly seek to achieve by even participating in this thread... Despite the participation being highly unnecessary.

[RobertMugabe]

Many people are just not used to dealing with challenging single player content.

The only cases where we had 'major' difficult single player content was the leveling in classic, mage tower (completely optional) and visions.

But yeah, some people are just shit at torghast, incl. many "high end" players that raid mythic, do high keys etc.

- - - Updated - - -

So, to summarize this topic:

OP wants to stroke his e-peen going "look at how good I am guyzzz"
People say that Torghast is tedious and some floor layouts are annoying
The reply "OMG TORGHAST ISNT HARD LOLOLOL I did it on my rogue in 170, wtfbbq you scrub"
other people reply they missed the point

and people start whinging about how torghast is or isn't hard

This is the thread that just keeps giving

Just go to search and type torghast in and you'll see just how many people are saying that torghast is hard and unfair.

[8bithamster]

The problem here which you rather CHOOSE to ignore or simply are too ignorant to realize is that it was the wrong way to make it faster. The Tower did not need the nerfs it got; nerfs it recieved due to a majority of players providing feedback regarding the tower complaining that it was too hard, not that it was too slow / boring. I am in NO way trying to say that no one said the tower wasn't slow / boring as those were complaints in the mix as well, but they were nowhere near as many as the general complaints about the tower being difficult. And I honestly do not doubt that a great amount of those difficulty complaints is mostly grounded in; yes - The amount of time the tower tok, but this is where my explanation on how the tower should have been nerfed comes into play. If people's complaints was in majority of "The slow pace" opposed to "This is too hard" - Then we would likely have seen a better "Nerf" along the lines of what I said as that would make the tower "faster" for a majority of players as they simply would not need to do the highest layers while still getting a larger brunt of the Soul Ash. It's no wonder that there always is complaints with balance patches when Blizzard keeps misunderstanding feedback / the players gives the wrong type of feedback. And my thread here is grounded in the fact that people did and still are complaining that the tower is hard to complete, not that it is slow.



All I will say to this is just see my reply above as the point still stands. People saying that non-challenging content is too hard just because it takes time leads to the wrong type of adjustments, had they simply changed the Soul Ash values; I think we would have had the most positive reception as players who enjoy what challenges the tower gave would keep that aspect while people who complain could not do just the first 4-6 layers and get all the Soul Ash they needed while not feeling the imaginary pressure of "having" to do the upper floors due to the low amount of Soul Ash it would grant. This would again maybe be a prickle for those few that; does not like Torghast but who still has the gear and skill to easily sweep the place out; but that bracket of people is in way less a majority when compared to the people that just cried out that the tower was too hard. Unfortunately not everyone can be happy; I know. But the changes done to the tower could have been handled way better.



This comment just proves how out of touch you are with the community side of WoW and I would please ask you to refrain from making claims based on your narrow observations going forward. The fact that you have the audacity to try and sound smart here by claiming that you have yet to meet anyone who says the tower is hard means that you have rather spoken with no one or have an extreme case of selective hearing and / or selective reading. Just smashing "Torghast difficulty" in on Google will showcase many a threads from the EU and US forums as well with Reddit threads and entries from other WoW community pages where the difficulty of the tower is repeated time and time again. On the other hand, if you search something like "Torghast slow" or "Torghast time" (Or anything to make time the relevant factor) you will still find that there is a larger number of voices in relevant threads to the slow pace of the tower that complains about the difficulty. That you at all can manage to delude yourself into thinking that the slow pace of the tower ever was more outspoken of a problem as opposed to the challenge really shows how little attention you pay to what's going on.







I decided to bulk all of you three together here at the end; not just to say - You three should forge a Guild / Community for likeminded individuals but also to flush out that you are all some propper C grade Trolls at best. The way 8bithamster goes at it makes it clear that the expectations here was that my thread was just another short "BS" thread - Yet upon seeing that it was a propper thread with meat on the bone; you pretty much ran into an internal error and the nonsense which is your comment was the best your could muster. Neither of you (Like many others) are contributing with anything of value or propper feedback to this thread's topic. I would kindly ask all three of you to actually tune in to the current state of the game and consider looking into how WoW works before posting comments with no purpose other than making a mockery out of yourselves. If this thread is something you all take as "A flex" or "e-peen" then I would really advice you to follow trough on my suggestion and make a community for likeminded individuals it is is clear that non of you would be welcome in regular WoW content by any means.

Edit; Late realization but I figured I'd have to toss this one in just for the heck of it - I would like if at least one of you responded with something along the lines of: "Man you were easy to bait" or anything down that line. It would really just place the cherry on top of everything you clearly seek to achieve by even participating in this thread... Despite the participation being highly unnecessary.

Actually there is no thread.. it's just "wow I did it just fine so it isn't hard guys!".. what else is that than e-peen stroking?

[Knight Meta]

Actually there is no thread.. it's just "wow I did it just fine so it isn't hard guys!".. what else is that than e-peen stroking?

Thanks for pretty much confirming my claims about your intentions and mindset. If you consider a constructive thread which is ment to serve as feedback / a post where I reflect upon a topic which many in the community has been vocal about for the past coupled of weeks to be "e-peen stroking" then I simply feel sorry for you, as clearly you are one of the members of this games community who does nothing to help it and any feedback from you would serve only to hurt the game more than help it.

I am not sure if your mindset just comes from that of; Attempted Trolling - You feeling "hit" in some way as perhaps you can't clear the top levels of Torghast - Maybe you just always have viewed constructive feedback as "BS" since you yourself can't muster up anything resembling constructive feedback yourself so you simply take to hate that which you do not understand. Regardless of what it is; I just want to once again thank you for coming out and ousting yourself as someone who contributes nothing to the thread at hand. Have a nice day.

[Kashra]

I feel like Torghast needs three modes: Current layer 1 fast and all ash for the week so it can be done very quickly if you have multiple alts, I can be a chore over multiple alts due to the time on an expansion that was marketed as alt friendly, this puts the compulsory chore at the front and makes it fast, so the rest can actually be a challenge. Layers 2-8 Should be as challenging as they once were but have gear behind them like visions used to, it feels bad to wipe due to a bad fear once interrupts are down for example for something like ash, gear would be different. Make it a solo to five person challenge that has progression and not be a chore. Then the Twisted Corridors for the cosmetics for a real challenge that has no player power.

[Sixnalia]

After the nerfs a few weeks back - and the other class tuning in Torghast. . . I haven't had any issue across my main and 4 alts.

Arcane Mage: Was ok pre-nerf and feels pretty easy now.
Sub Rogue: I did find it a pain pre-nerf and the class changes for Torghast made it much easier(less anima power stacking needed for ramp up)
Frost DK: Pretty easy prenerf - easier now after
WW Monk: This felt the most "balanced" pre-nerf
Shadow Priest(Main): No issues pre-nerf


My biggest complaint pre-nerf for some classes was simple tuning of Anima ramp up.
Rogue was an easy offender, such as the anima that applied Rupture worth 1 combo point per rank - when using Eviscerate.
It was then retuned to give 5 point Ruptures.
Similar happened with the Shadowstrike/Backstab damage booster - it went from 5 ranks to 3, with bigger bonuses per rank.

[Grapemask]

Ignoring that Torghast is just a failed design concept in general, based on my runs with my various classes, I think the majority of the issues come from Torghast being designed to be played a very specific way with each spec.

For example, Blizzard has had absolutely no creative thought process with paladins in 15 years, and this shows in how they designed Torghast buffs for Ret: pretty much just straight damage buffs. So for paladins, playing Torghast isn't much different than playing the game anywhere else in the world. If you know how to beat stuff up and survive stuff beating you up outside the tower, your experience will be pretty much the same inside the tower.

But when you move over to Hunters, things look very different. A lot of buffs focus entirely on using specific skills in specific ways, often without directly buffing damage at all. When you look at priests, there's a really weird number of anima powers that buff screams and what not. For some classes, Torghast forces you to play in a way that you might not enjoy or even have any experience with at all - but for others, like ret, Torghast is just same shit different day.

I find that altoholics have a lot more tolerance for changing their playstyles than those of us who are committed to one or a few specific characters, for better or worse. Personally, I get miffed by that design philosophy, because it's what leads to the argument "X class is fine because, if played perfectly, it is able to accomplish this thing that class Y does just rolling its face across the keyboard."

[kiramon]

Ignoring that Torghast is just a failed design concept in general, based on my runs with my various classes, I think the majority of the issues come from Torghast being designed to be played a very specific way with each spec.

For example, Blizzard has had absolutely no creative thought process with paladins in 15 years, and this shows in how they designed Torghast buffs for Ret: pretty much just straight damage buffs. So for paladins, playing Torghast isn't much different than playing the game anywhere else in the world. If you know how to beat stuff up and survive stuff beating you up outside the tower, your experience will be pretty much the same inside the tower.

But when you move over to Hunters, things look very different. A lot of buffs focus entirely on using specific skills in specific ways, often without directly buffing damage at all. When you look at priests, there's a really weird number of anima powers that buff screams and what not. For some classes, Torghast forces you to play in a way that you might not enjoy or even have any experience with at all - but for others, like ret, Torghast is just same shit different day.

I find that altoholics have a lot more tolerance for changing their playstyles than those of us who are committed to one or a few specific characters, for better or worse. Personally, I get miffed by that design philosophy, because it's what leads to the argument "X class is fine because, if played perfectly, it is able to accomplish this thing that class Y does just rolling its face across the keyboard."

I guess this is true. There's the Fade build (which I've only gotten the correct powers to work for me once since week after launch), the Fear (super resistant to the non-existent damage of holy priest lol) build that you can get to last forever - which is definitely not how you play the rest of the game (not sure I see anyone ever fear bomb every mob... and haven't not even in vanilla).

Or my favorite - the 20% damage into SWP initial tick. That's a fun one. You get to sit there at the end of the floor with 1 mob building it back up to 100% HP and then 1 shot the boss xD... I think one run I had 64k HP? +70% damage to a Feared/Stunned Mob, Guaranteed Crit on SWP initial dot... instakill boss. Definitely my favorite powers to see. Much different than lower layers though where the Rare mobs were guaranteed to give the stacking damage resistance so you just couldn't die...

[Vandamonia]

Sorry but anyone who says Mage is hard in torghast is just a terrible mage.

[Trudamagex]

Sub rogue here, no issue, especially since the nerf.
Total faceroll if you bought all anima boost to venari.
Was a bit tricky before nerf, >layer 6

[Sezh]

You overestimate the skill level of the average player. People are just trash, that's all.

[khazmodan]

You overestimate the skill level of the average player. People are just trash, that's all.

World of Warcraft is designed to make you think you are good at something that in the big picture is a trash skill. Get over yourself

[Osperand]

Sorry but you kind of missed the point. You were way better geared than a lot of people that were trying to get layer 8 done, i cleared layer 8 pre nerf on my druid easy, but i think the gear, animas you get (& choose) and most importantly of all what the end boss is.

I had not lost a life on my hunter and when i got to the last boss on layer 8 i died multiple times. It was the ooze boss that splits into 3, even kiting around, feigning death etc made no difference. Unless you could nuke them fast at the split stage it was always a fail, nothing to do with skill it was a gear check.

There were some other bosses too that were a major pain, i really think you are being a bit disingenuous to make it look like it was easy, no matter the reasons, with that ilvl i would expect anyone to manage unless they hit a brick wall boss.

Thats what i think anyway.

[schwarzkopf]

Mages were difficult?

All squishies are difficult solo ... that's just an objective reality.

Nothing to do with dps... it is just maths, your health pool is 30k, the boss can go through that in seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

Just go to search and type torghast in and you'll see just how many people are saying that torghast is hard and unfair.

Well - it is hard for squishies, that's just fact.

Is it unfair... well, no more unfair than squishies not being able to tank raid bosses.

Pair up with a tank and impossible becomes trivial.

[Kumorii]

All squishies are difficult solo ... that's just an objective reality.

Nothing to do with dps... it is just maths, your health pool is 30k, the boss can go through that in seconds.

Mage has never been difficult in torghast, that's just a fact.

[schwarzkopf]

Mage has never been difficult in torghast,

Of course not, if you pair up with a tank - it has always been easy.

It is only pretty much impossible when you are solo, that's just straight maths.

If you don't like objective reality and maths... then I can't help you.

[Kumorii]

Of course not, if you pair up with a tank - it has always been easy.

It is only pretty much impossible when you are solo, that's just straight maths.

If you don't like objective reality and maths... then I can't help you.

Mage has never been difficult in torghast solo, that's just a fact.

If you want to keep being bad...then I can't help you.

[schwarzkopf]

Mage has never been difficult

Well, the rest of the community, wowhead and maths all say you are wrong.

Maybe you can explain how 30k divided by 15k is 50 ... might go a bit to explaining your weird logic.

Or maybe you can explain when mages started being a tanking class, because I'd not got the memo.

[Kumorii]

Well, the rest of the community, wowhead and maths all say you are wrong.

Maybe you can explain how 30k divided by 15k is 50 ... might go a bit to explaining your weird logic.

I never made such claim... if you wanna keep spouting useless nonsense, I can't help you.

People being bad doesn't change the fact that mages have never been difficult in Torghast. I never struggled with it solo...Pick proper powers, just like roguelikes are designed. To turn the odds in your favor.