The Problem with Right Wing Populism

[Kokolums]

You forget the whole theocracy thing where they want their religion to be the basis for laws.

The basis of laws is a moral code. Religion is a moral code. In fact, you can make the case that any moral code is a religion. Right and wrong get established from opinion, which then forms a moral code, and then is enforced in a religious manner.

It is not a FACT that murder is wrong in the same way that it is a fact we all get older as time passes. A society could exist where murder is OK. It is a moral opinion in our society that murder is wrong. And it is enforced in a religious manner.

[postman1782]

The basis of laws is a moral code. Religion is a moral code. In fact, you can make the case that any moral code is a religion. Right and wrong get established from opinion, which then forms a moral code, and then is enforced in a religious manner.

It is not a FACT that murder is wrong in the same way that it is a fact we all get older as time passes. A society could exist where murder is OK. It is a moral opinion in our society that murder is wrong. And it is enforced in a religious manner.

Except the morality of religions also happen to be bad. We don't get ANY of our laws from religion.

[Masark]

We don't get ANY of our laws from religion.

You mean you're not supposed to. Your wall between church and state has a gate operated by Maxwell's demon, allowing through things like blue laws.

[Shadowferal]

The basis of laws is a moral code. Religion is a moral code. In fact, you can make the case that any moral code is a religion. Right and wrong get established from opinion, which then forms a moral code, and then is enforced in a religious manner.

It is not a FACT that murder is wrong in the same way that it is a fact we all get older as time passes. A society could exist where murder is OK. It is a moral opinion in our society that murder is wrong. And it is enforced in a religious manner.

Annoyingly accurate.
Laws are constructs that originated from morality codified through religious beliefs.
It can be accurately said that laws themselves today are enacted opinions.

[WintersLegion]

Wait, you think Trump wasn't globalist? How gullible are you?

- - - Updated - - -



Yet, it is Trump that is fucking them with his tariffs? Yeah, it is totally the Democrats' problem.

I don't know how accurate it is anymore but in 2016 Trump had 144 companies do business in 25 different countries sounds like a globalist to me
https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/polit...ses/index.html

[Cthulhu 2020]

I don't know how accurate it is anymore but in 2016 Trump had 144 companies do business in 25 different countries sounds like a globalist to me
https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/polit...ses/index.html

Incidentally I think "globalist" is one of the dumbest words to become a pejorative in the last half century. It implies that expanding business and communication to the entire globe is a bad thing, and that everyone should just cower behind their borders and only do business within their own borders. Though I think the biggest issue here is that we don't have some kind of global set of laws that set the minimum value of labor. After all we can't. At this point in earth's history every country is at some different stage developmentally. Globalism is the vehicle through which these developing nations will eventually grow to be competitors in a relatively co-equal world, but I don't think anyone currently reading this forum will live to see that day.

[DKjaigen]

In pointing out that your example was wildly dishonest?

Why was that a waste of time? Because everyone should just expect that from you? That's the only way I'd consider that to have been a waste of time.

Because it doesn't convince you that you're wrong about basic concepts? Oh, honey. I'm not trying to convince you. You're not the intended audience. I couldn't care less about whether I convince you that you're wrong; you can't reason someone out of a position they irrationally worked themselves into in the first place. I'm just making sure nobody else takes your comment seriously.

That's why I try and provide links to resources I use, so that readers can fact-check my work if they're unsure of my results. I've got nothing to hide, and anyone who's just going to refuse to check my work and reject what I'm saying wouldn't ever be convinced by anything I said on any subject, ever, so it would be a waste of my time to try.

I was making a point that people rather have a big paycheck then social services and you start blabbering about taxes. Completely useless and not relevant. The fact that i had to read your self righteous crap for 40 seconds is one of my least productive 40 seconds ever.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know how accurate it is anymore but in 2016 Trump had 144 companies do business in 25 different countries sounds like a globalist to me
https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/polit...ses/index.html

Thats not globalism. 2 main issues with globalism is this

1. look at nike and they are producing their sneakers in bengladesh by child labourers just to make more profit. if they produced it in america or europe it would be safer cleaner and more fair overal.
2.The current globalist economy allows for tax havens. EA for example has a office setup in Amsterdam just to avoid to pay the US goverment 10´s of millions of dollars in tax.

- - - Updated - - -

At this point in earth's history every country is at some different stage developmentally. Globalism is the vehicle through which these developing nations will eventually grow to be competitors in a relatively co-equal world, but I don't think anyone currently reading this forum will live to see that day.

Well it certaintly not now in the slightest. A few years ago in the Netherlands the prime minister wanted to additional taxes on shell. Shell told them to go fuck themselves and if tried to implement it they would be leaving. The result was that the new taxes were scrapped. Current globalism gives big corporations way too much political power.

- - - Updated - - -

You mean the Obama that rescued the automotive industry?

The rustbelt didnt seem to share your assessment.

[postman1782]

Thats not globalism. 2 main issues with globalism is this

1. look at nike and they are producing their sneakers in bengladesh by child labourers just to make more profit. if they produced it in america or europe it would be safer cleaner and more fair overal.
2.The current globalist economy allows for tax havens. EA for example has a office setup in Amsterdam just to avoid to pay the US goverment 10´s of millions of dollars in tax.

So, Trump? He has factories in China, Bangladesh, Taiwan, golf courses in all over the world, has secret accounts in China, gets BILLIONS from Russia and Deutsche Bank, and this isn't globalism by your definition? I guarantee he has secret bank accounts to other countries as well. But we don't know because of his tax returns being secret, for now.

- - - Updated - - -

The rustbelt didnt seem to share your assessment.

You mean the Rustbelt that got ROYALLY fucked over by Trump and voted for Biden thanks to Trump's tariffs? Yeah, they voted for Obama's VP that helped lead out of the recession.

[DKjaigen]

So, Trump? He has factories in China, Bangladesh, Taiwan, golf courses in all over the world, has secret accounts in China, gets BILLIONS from Russia and Deutsche Bank, and this isn't globalism by your definition? I guarantee he has secret bank accounts to other countries as well. But we don't know because of his tax returns being secret, for now.

As far as i know he doesnt own factories he is into real estate after all. And the last is just conspiracy nonsense. But its irrelevant because trump is soon gone and what are the democrats going to do to revitalize the rustbelt?

You mean the Rustbelt that got ROYALLY fucked over by Trump and voted for Biden thanks to Trump's tariffs? Yeah, they voted for Obama's VP that helped lead out of the recession.

Last time i checked we had a Corona problem. Biden is not going to fix that.

[Shadowferal]

The first laws we have on record weren’t based in religion and, funny enough, had a ton of minutiae like minimum wages in them.

Mesopotamia disagrees with you. ((omg...you're not one of those that fantasizes that atheism was the first belief?)

religious discussions are banned, but the people who think laws are fundamentally based in religion tend to need more education.

And you need a lesson on history.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well it certaintly not now in the slightest. A few years ago in the Netherlands the prime minister wanted to additional taxes on shell. Shell told them to go fuck themselves and if tried to implement it they would be leaving. The result was that the new taxes were scrapped. Current globalism gives big corporations way too much political power.

This is said so many times I'm not even sure if I can believe it any more. And I'm not saying it's untrue, but well... I'm far more inclined to believe that Shell paid off every government official. I also couldn't find any information saying that the additional tax was abandoned BECAUSE Shell threatened to leave.

But here's the biggest reason I think these kinds of statements are BS: Companies pay taxes within the countries they operate, not just the country in which their headquarters is located. And there's nothing particularly special about having your headquarters in one country vs another. You still have access to all the same benefits regardless. Every time someone says "IF YOU RAISE TAXES THIS COMPANY WILL LEAVE" I just have to shake my head sadly at them in pity for not understanding how this process even works. See, whenever Shell sells natural gas in the US, it pays taxes on that sale to the US government. If it sells gas in the Netherlands, it pays tax in the Netherlands. If there is an international deal, say sale of a resource from one country to another, tax laws between those two countries are considered.

Of course, a retort could be "Well they'll just stop doing business in that country" to which I have to shake my head yet again. Companies want access to every market where they can turn a profit. Even if taxes are high, companies can turn a profit in nearly any country, as no country will tax something so hard that it's just impossible to operate as a business.

"But what about a franchise tax that taxes the net worth of a company?!" Yes, this could affect where a business has their headquarters and are likely one of the main reasons businesses will leave a certain country, but these are much lower rates than corporate income taxes levied and not quite as common. And again, it's not like a company will stop selling their goods in a country just because their HQ is not there. They will continue to operate.

Also, the EU has recently been working on rectifying the fact that the Netherlands is a tax haven. The Netherlands only became a tax haven due to World War 2 fuckery. It's far more complicated than a few sentences can explain, but the basic concept is trying to repatriate businesses back into the Netherlands after WW2.

[Edge-]

This is said so many times I'm not even sure if I can believe it any more. And I'm not saying it's untrue, but well... I'm far more inclined to believe that Shell paid off every government official. I also couldn't find any information saying that the additional tax was abandoned BECAUSE Shell threatened to leave.

Best I can find is that they (and other companies) were given a tax break that ended up being pretty unpopular and put the prime minsters feet to the fire, followed by them ending up paying at least some domestic taxes (apparently they can write off most taxed via expenditures abroad).

Nothing about the PM proposing new taxes on Shell. But that's about 1 minute of poking around.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Best I can find is that they (and other companies) were given a tax break that ended up being pretty unpopular and put the prime minsters feet to the fire, followed by them ending up paying at least some domestic taxes (apparently they can write off most taxed via expenditures abroad).

Nothing about the PM proposing new taxes on Shell. But that's about 1 minute of poking around.

A lot of these things also become pure conjecture that conservatives like to latch onto as talking points.

Government wants to tax Shell more.
Tax doesn't happen.
"IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE SHELL WOULD HAVE LEFT!"

[DKjaigen]

This is said so many times I'm not even sure if I can believe it any more. And I'm not saying it's untrue, but well... I'm far more inclined to believe that Shell paid off every government official. I also couldn't find any information saying that the additional tax was abandoned BECAUSE Shell threatened to leave.

I completely messed this one up and put this story and another similar event happening with unilever together. Just ingore it.

But here's the biggest reason I think these kinds of statements are BS: Companies pay taxes within the countries they operate, not just the country in which their headquarters is located. And there's nothing particularly special about having your headquarters in one country vs another. You still have access to all the same benefits regardless. Every time someone says "IF YOU RAISE TAXES THIS COMPANY WILL LEAVE" I just have to shake my head sadly at them in pity for not understanding how this process even works. See, whenever Shell sells natural gas in the US, it pays taxes on that sale to the US government. If it sells gas in the Netherlands, it pays tax in the Netherlands. If there is an international deal, say sale of a resource from one country to another, tax laws between those two countries are considered.

And there is where you make a mistake. You see there simply a fuckton of laws and loopholes which allows to send all your earned money to a tax haven.

https://thecorrespondent.com/6942/be...37658-b85252de

this link provides more information. Nearly all the profits EA and blizzard make in the USA are simply not taxed.

[WintersLegion]

I completely messed this one up and put this story and another similar event happening with unilever together. Just ingore it.



And there is where you make a mistake. You see there simply a fuckton of laws and loopholes which allows to send all your earned money to a tax haven.

https://thecorrespondent.com/6942/be...37658-b85252de

this link provides more information. Nearly all the profits EA and blizzard make in the USA are simply not taxed.

They don't even have to send it out of the country as Delaware has extremely lax tax laws so a lot of top companies say they are based out of it in order to take advantage of it. In fact there is one two story building that 285,000 companies say they are based out of because all the company needs is a mailing address with in the state.

[Cthulhu 2020]

And there is where you make a mistake. You see there simply a fuckton of laws and loopholes which allows to send all your earned money to a tax haven.

https://thecorrespondent.com/6942/be...37658-b85252de

this link provides more information. Nearly all the profits EA and blizzard make in the USA are simply not taxed.

That's just called tax evasion, and just because there are loopholes that make it technically legal means it's still tax evasion. You should be far more upset about the idea that a corporation can pay less tax than you (not by a percent, just a corporation paying zero dollars or whatever currency) by using tax havens and other loopholes than ever worrying about Shell leaving the Netherlands.