King of Storwind

[tommyhil622]

Given the direction in which Anduin is heading towards, do you foresee Turalyon staying in the throne of Stormwind for the forseeable future? or do you think that Anduin will return back to rule?

[AcidX]

Could be possible that Turalyon stays as the future King of SW. I think Anduin will fall to the Void or going insane. Cant imagine he is coming back.

[Feanoro]

Princess Andy will never go away, he's the spokesman for Blizzard's woke values.If they ever make a new more woke character, he'll suddenly be an oppressor and see the error of his ways, then publicly self-castrate.

[VladlTutushkin]

Princess Andy will never go away, he's the spokesman for Blizzard's woke values.If they ever make a new more woke character, he'll suddenly be an oppressor and see the error of his ways, then publicly self-castrate.

I still cant understand how blizz with one hand jerks off to violence , genocide and beating predominantly “female oriented” race into a bloody pulp in an orgy of violence and death (and then cucking that same race out of revenge, basically telling them to bite the pillow and be quiet)... and then with another hand pushing ungodly amount of wokeness that can turn butter and beef into soy.

[Verdugo]

I still cant understand how blizz with one hand jerks off to violence , genocide and beating predominantly “female oriented” race into a bloody pulp in an orgy of violence and death (and then cucking that same race out of revenge, basically telling them to bite the pillow and be quiet)... and then with another hand pushing ungodly amount of wokeness that can turn butter and beef into soy.

Its called tokenism, its when company doesnt want to commit and just wants to have a cake and eat it too.

[MikeBogina]

What I see happening is that the Light arrives before Anduin returns and Turalyon just hands over the Alliance to the Light. Probably thinking Anduin would do the same thing. At first things are going great, but then radicalization starts to happen. The races that aren't human... i mean "alliance" start to get targeted and eventually the Light with Yrel's forces turn the Alliance into a tyrannical force.

The Horde is fighting a losing war as the Light is too powerful and some members of the Alliance start to see the error of this, with probably Genn leading a resistance.

I see when we come back, Alliance are met by the Light Nazi's who welcome them kinda like how we're welcomed in Revendreth, siding with the oppressors at first. Eventually they start to realize somethings wrong, maybe the resistance approaches them and then are taken away to the Alliance resistance's HQ, probably ruins of Gilneas or something.
Horde probably get captured once they return and have to be freed by someone, maybe Anduin cause we'll be licking his boots by the end of Shadowlands, but maybe horde members, Oculeth or whoever and we're taken to some Horde city/base that's still holding out from the Light's attacks.

Anyways, things happen and eventually we come together to form one faction with Anduin as the Golden God Emperor of Azeroth and then we proceed with the Void Expansion after

[VladlTutushkin]

What I see happening is that the Light arrives before Anduin returns and Turalyon just hands over the Alliance to the Light. Probably thinking Anduin would do the same thing. At first things are going great, but then radicalization starts to happen. The races that aren't human... i mean "alliance" start to get targeted and eventually the Light with Yrel's forces turn the Alliance into a tyrannical force.

The Horde is fighting a losing war as the Light is too powerful and some members of the Alliance start to see the error of this, with probably Genn leading a resistance.

I see when we come back, Alliance are met by the Light Nazi's who welcome them kinda like how we're welcomed in Revendreth, siding with the oppressors at first. Eventually they start to realize somethings wrong, maybe the resistance approaches them and then are taken away to the Alliance resistance's HQ, probably ruins of Gilneas or something.
Horde probably get captured once they return and have to be freed by someone, maybe Anduin cause we'll be licking his boots by the end of Shadowlands, but maybe horde members, Oculeth or whoever and we're taken to some Horde city/base that's still holding out from the Light's attacks.

Anyways, things happen and eventually we come together to form one faction with Anduin as the Golden God Emperor of Azeroth and then we proceed with the Void Expansion after

At this point i dont see how being “under” the Light is less awful then sharing the “peace” with the horde. I mean, for general population it would be a net benefit with only clause being a religious conversion in exchange for no more having to wait for another “surprise genocide” or “annihilation oopsie” and then forgiving the horde again because they totes are innocent.
So... yeah, Light is a very appealing alternative. I take living under religious tyranny (which dosent seem to want anything from you other then a conversion and going to sermons or whatever) over waiting for a nuke in the back.

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Its called tokenism, its when company doesnt want to commit and just wants to have a cake and eat it too.

So far they only managed to eat shit imho.

[Verdugo]

So far they only managed to eat shit imho.

Did they? Writers are completely sheltered from criticism, so much in fact that one time they went for a live stream it was two of them jerking each other off.

[yule goat]

Given the direction in which Anduin is heading towards, do you foresee Turalyon staying in the throne of Stormwind for the forseeable future? or do you think that Anduin will return back to rule?

I don't know what they'll do with Turalyon. Ever since they introduced him in Legion and made him such an uncharismatic zealot, I didn't have any hopes for him anyway.

[Eggroll]

I still cant understand how blizz with one hand jerks off to violence , genocide and beating predominantly “female oriented” race into a bloody pulp in an orgy of violence and death (and then cucking that same race out of revenge, basically telling them to bite the pillow and be quiet)... and then with another hand pushing ungodly amount of wokeness that can turn butter and beef into soy.

IKR? Blizzard writers and devs come across as the epitome of toxic masculinity all the while thinking they are somehow woke... maybe they suffer from some kind of mental illness.. split personality, Jekyll and Hyde syndrome ...

[VladlTutushkin]

Did they? Writers are completely sheltered from criticism, so much in fact that one time they went for a live stream it was two of them jerking each other off.

Well, the fact that they are in denial does not make their “work” less shit.

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IKR? Blizzard writers and devs come across as the epitome of toxic masculinity all the while thinking they are somehow woke... maybe they suffer from some kind of mental illness.. split personality, Jekyll and Hyde syndrome ...

At this point it really looks like a company-wide mental disorder.

[Lupinemancer]

Princess Andy will never go away, he's the spokesman for Blizzard's woke values.If they ever make a new more woke character, he'll suddenly be an oppressor and see the error of his ways, then publicly self-castrate.

Erhhh, I think you are confused there kid.

[Super Dickmann]

There is absolutely zero chance of Anduin not returning to the throne or of suffering any lasting consequence. There is equally zero chance of the Alliance either being the antagonist or of Turalyon actually acting like someone tied to the cosmic power of the Light rather than a henpecked husband thinking that some torture on the side is what will spice up his centuries old marriage.

[VladlTutushkin]

There is absolutely zero chance of Anduin not returning to the throne or of suffering any lasting consequence. There is equally zero chance of the Alliance either being the antagonist or of Turalyon actually acting like someone tied to the cosmic power of the Light rather than a henpecked husband thinking that some torture on the side is what will spice up his centuries old marriage.

Each time someone brings up that “torture” i roll my eyes. Like, they offered them supplies and free passage in exchange for information about a fugitive who supposed to be an enemy of both factions. That orc moron decided to play tough after she already let it slip that she has the intel they looking for.
Plus imagine if sylvanas and nathanos came upon a caravan of Alliance refugees while searching for... idk, maybe Genn on a run. There would be torture of everybody, including her piglet runt.
Arguably, just killing that traveling menagerie and blaming gnolls or troll tribes for that was far easier and wouldnt have made Jaina mad or whatever.

[Super Dickmann]

Each time someone brings up that “torture” i roll my eyes. Like, they offered them supplies and free passage in exchange for information about a fugitive who supposed to be an enemy of both factions. That orc moron decided to play tough after she already let it slip that she has the intel they looking for.
Plus imagine if sylvanas and nathanos came upon a caravan of Alliance refugees while searching for... idk, maybe Genn on a run. There would be torture of everybody, including her piglet runt.
Arguably, just killing that traveling menagerie and blaming gnolls or troll tribes for that was far easier and wouldnt have made Jaina mad or whatever.

You're right, it is really milquetoast. Usually the Alliance first does something iffy and then it's backtracked upon over the iterations, but in this case it's already fairly innocuous. Blizzard are unwilling to commit to them actually performing torture on a civilian or even a soldier so there's a million bells and whistles included. Even then people will fall over themselves to explain how the act is actually white as the driven snow, thus resulting in even more one note writing than this weak stuff.

In reality, any characterization that accounted for the Lightforged being in a multiple milennia year old total war against always chaotic evil demons would have them a lot more committed than this, ditto any that took into account that void elves are inundated with whispers to kill their friends and family 24/7. But as they aren't and never will be we have this instead, presumably so that Jaina could be appalled and have something to do in a plot that actively suffers from having to contrive a reason for her powers not to be able to solve the situation in five minutes. This despite pre-Mists Jaina having Theramore soldiers do more graphic and lasting fare, kicked out eyes and all.

[VladlTutushkin]

You're right, it is really milquetoast. Usually the Alliance first does something iffy and then it's backtracked upon over the iterations, but in this case it's already fairly innocuous. Blizzard are unwilling to commit to them actually performing torture on a civilian or even a soldier so there's a million bells and whistles included. Even then people will fall over themselves to explain how the act is actually white as the driven snow, thus resulting in even more one note writing than this weak stuff.

In reality, any characterization that accounted for the Lightforged being in a multiple milennia year old total war against always chaotic evil demons would have them a lot more committed than this, ditto any that took into account that void elves are inundated with whispers to kill their friends and family 24/7. But as they aren't and never will be we have this instead, presumably so that Jaina could be appalled and have something to do in a plot that actively suffers from having to contrive a reason for her powers not to be able to solve the situation in five minutes. This despite pre-Mists Jaina having Theramore soldiers do more graphic and lasting fare, kicked out eyes and all.

Thing is, orcs arent demons. You can turn that around easily - Lightforged were fighting to protect every other race for millenia or whatever long. So now fighting non-demons, non-Legion races can make them pause in “the fuck, i was literally throwing myself against endless demonic army for those bastards and now i have to kill them too? Kinda nuts.”
Also having evil whispers in your head might make you extra-alert about your own behaviour - you dont want to “slip” so you have to keep as tight grip as possible on your actions. Etc, etc.
However about orc woman - its fairly understandable why she acted this way. Orcs are generally cocky, stupid creatures. She probably never believed that a “puny human” can harm her because of how easy Alliance always went on them so she acted as she did.
What i am saying is that situation made sense, only thing that was cringe as fuck was that “good guy forsaken” who was suddenly not okay with torture, despite being a member of RAS which pretty much stands for “crazy nazi scientists” of WoW.
What i also want to say is that Jaina and everybody else in Alliance should be fine with torturing horde too. And anybody who supports horde. Because after several “oppsie wars of annihilation” horde pretty much set the plank so low you have to kill and eat children to surpass them. Plus they will whine and call you “raaaacist” anyway.

[Redroniksre]

At this point i dont see how being “under” the Light is less awful then sharing the “peace” with the horde. I mean, for general population it would be a net benefit with only clause being a religious conversion in exchange for no more having to wait for another “surprise genocide” or “annihilation oopsie” and then forgiving the horde again because they totes are innocent.
So... yeah, Light is a very appealing alternative. I take living under religious tyranny (which dosent seem to want anything from you other then a conversion and going to sermons or whatever) over waiting for a nuke in the back.

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So far they only managed to eat shit imho.

It is doubtful that is -all- the light wants. The way things are going it seems that each of the cosmic powers want to claim Azeroth for their own. We know what happens if the Old Gods get it (Void Titan), but if the light claims it, would they then use it to add to their own war machine?

[Super Dickmann]

Thing is, orcs arent demons. You can turn that around easily - Lightforged were fighting to protect every other race for millenia or whatever long. So now fighting non-demons, non-Legion races can make them pause in “the fuck, i was literally throwing myself against endless demonic army for those bastards and now i have to kill them too? Kinda nuts.”
Also having evil whispers in your head might make you extra-alert about your own behaviour - you dont want to “slip” so you have to keep as tight grip as possible on your actions. Etc, etc.

See, this is exactly what I mean. You say you do, but you don't. Even when something marginally iffy occurs that's already well justified by the narrative, the common impulse is to go the extra mile to try and explain how even that is actually morally pure. In this case, later providing for the mother and Turalyon's intervention means that the act, i.e melting a civilian's brain with soul eating magic is explained by their reluctance to do it and the stakes should they fail - namely not finding Sylvanas and the world possibly ending as a result.

But to add to that, rather than ever work with the natural consequences of such people who'd have at least one example of snapping under the pressure or being desensitized to violence given how many worlds they'd have gone through by this point, your first instinct is to instead explain how they would instead be driven by virtue. The orc thing is especially uncanny since I don't think the Lightforged have even encountered orcs before since they weren't on Draenor, not a single one of them was motivated by saving orcs or gave a shit about orcs prior and someone who's seen their friends die in a million terrible ways across the centuries would at least at some point compartmentalize it. These character types are never used because their playerbase can't cope with them and reacts with indignation at even far lesser acts.

What i also want to say is that Jaina and everybody else in Alliance should be fine with torturing horde too. And anybody who supports horde. Because after several “oppsie wars of annihilation” horde pretty much set the plank so low you have to kill and eat children to surpass them. Plus they will whine and call you “raaaacist” anyway.

Cataclysm and even Pandaria understood this in terms of reactivity and sometimes gave it airtime. I.e, that when you're in a war even if your leaders are pure as teh driven snow, the rank and file will eventually snap and go the extra mile. BFA flirts with this and the act of tossing random pilots and diplomats into the void is matched only by the Mag'har eating footmen souls with the void in terms of moral bankruptcy given who the targets are and the eternal torture component, ditto the whole waitress killing episode, but as neither have any focus by the narrative no one cares about them.

[VladlTutushkin]

See, this is exactly what I mean. You say you do, but you don't. Even when something marginally iffy occurs that's already well justified by the narrative, the common impulse is to go the extra mile to try and explain how even that is actually morally pure. In this case, later providing for the mother and Turalyon's intervention means that the act, i.e melting a civilian's brain with soul eating magic is explained by their reluctance to do it and the stakes should they fail - namely not finding Sylvanas and the world possibly ending as a result.

But to add to that, rather than ever work with the natural consequences of such people who'd have at least one example of snapping under the pressure or being desensitized to violence given how many worlds they'd have gone through by this point, your first instinct is to instead explain how they would instead be driven by virtue. The orc thing is especially uncanny since I don't think the Lightforged have even encountered orcs before since they weren't on Draenor, not a single one of them was motivated by saving orcs or gave a shit about orcs prior and someone who's seen their friends die in a million terrible ways across the centuries would at least at some point compartmentalize it. These character types are never used because their playerbase can't cope with them and reacts with indignation at even far lesser acts.



Cataclysm and even Pandaria understood this in terms of reactivity and sometimes gave it airtime. I.e, that when you're in a war even if your leaders are pure as teh driven snow, the rank and file will eventually snap and go the extra mile. BFA flirts with this and the act of tossing random pilots and diplomats into the void is matched only by the Mag'har eating footmen souls with the void in terms of moral bankruptcy given who the targets are and the eternal torture component, ditto the whole waitress killing episode, but as neither have any focus by the narrative no one cares about them.

You fail to understand again. I simply dont want to be suddenly compared to the horde in terms of "how bad you are" after one torture episode with a very clear reasoning behind it and obvious lack of dialogue from the orc woman. And diplomats/pilots thing is also far from what horde did.
My reasoning is as straight and simple as a rail - either dont bring up the pearl-clutching and hand-wringing over some miniscule nothings and let us enjoy that (rather questionable joy imho) "moral highground" OR let us do something actually worth getting mad/sad/concerned over.
When Anduin tried to tell Saurfang that apparently Alliance about as bad as the horde i cringed so hard water in my bottle turned into lemon juice.
Horde picks any accident and bites into it like a blood-sucking tick, while Alliance not even allowed to be vengeful/enraged over truly heinous crimes and continuous, systematic cruelty. Not just "some soldier losing it" or "commander on a frontier going too far" but a long and extensive history of horde reveling in cruelty and brutality towards Alliance and Alliance aligned races.
Also if i would want to be snarky i would say - yeah, i am moraly pure and consider myself and upstanding individual in real life and in RP/game. Jealous much? Its a game about heroes, i am one, and who are you?

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It is doubtful that is -all- the light wants. The way things are going it seems that each of the cosmic powers want to claim Azeroth for their own. We know what happens if the Old Gods get it (Void Titan), but if the light claims it, would they then use it to add to their own war machine?

Dont have much of a proof that they will... Plus even if they do, then why not? We already opposing Void on almost any occasion aside from Void Elves, while at least we will have a solid "us" aka the Light and solid "them" aka the Void, none of that "we unite today to fight a big bad but tomorrow horde throws a nuke at us while we not looking but next week we unite again".

[Super Dickmann]

You fail to understand again. I simply dont want to be suddenly compared to the horde in terms of "how bad you are" after one torture episode with a very clear reasoning behind it and obvious lack of dialogue from the orc woman. And diplomats/pilots thing is also far from what horde did.
My reasoning is as straight and simple as a rail - either dont bring up the pearl-clutching and hand-wringing over some miniscule nothings and let us enjoy that (rather questionable joy imho) "moral highground" OR let us do something actually worth getting mad/sad/concerned over.
When Anduin tried to tell Saurfang that apparently Alliance about as bad as the horde i cringed so hard water in my bottle turned into lemon juice.
Horde picks any accident and bites into it like a blood-sucking tick, while Alliance not even allowed to be vengeful/enraged over truly heinous crimes and continuous, systematic cruelty. Not just "some soldier losing it" or "commander on a frontier going too far" but a long and extensive history of horde reveling in cruelty and brutality towards Alliance and Alliance aligned races.
Also if i would want to be snarky i would say - yeah, i am moraly pure and consider myself and upstanding individual in real life and in RP/game. Jealous much? Its a game about heroes, i am one, and who are you?

No one made a comparison to the Horde in that vein in the first place, the act is morally milquetoast both compared to what the Horde does and - as I pointed out before you did, in terms of what the Alliance did in both this and prior expansions, including by Jaina's own troops. The fact that the Alliance playerbase nevertheless reacted as vehemently as they did for the same reason they fell over themselves to defend the comedy that were the Purge Squads before they got rewritten is the reason why the Alliance only gets Captain America storylines in the first place. Your position is incoherent in a way that neither the pro-war or pro-peace position is.

My position, ergo the pro-war position would be that there's no big issue with it and the acts don't need to be morally equivalent provided that the sides can dislike each other and fight over it and someone will eat the big one in that regard, hence why I'm all aboard the night elves going on a vengeance trip. Varodoc and others' position is that the Alliance is in fact pure as the driven snow and is the main character, and that's the point, with the Horde's out of story rewrite being their karmic punishment since people are no longer able to play said more villainous elements. The reason positions like yours or, Horde-side, Grazrug's are comical is because you want your cake and to eat it too.

You want to go on this weirdly Freudian bloody rampage like the nearly sexual humiliation you think has been inflicted on the night elves, but you also want to impeccably maintain the moral highground and lash out against even the most banal moral infraction by the Alliance and against Horde races getting a role in neutral expansions. It's either one or the other, by which I mean it's only the latter because it's got a record of happening already and is at least internally logical.