TW is a nightmare atm

[Raugnaut]

did they nerf MoP cloak and purple ring from WoD ? cause you forgot to mention those :P

MoP Cloak and WoD rings aren't nerfed, no. However, they are unobtainable for players who did not play during those expansions, so it's no concern to ppl just now starting a TW set.

[kamuimac]

I just went 5 timewalks as a healer and had no issue at all, what are you guys talking about? You obviously dont know that WOTLK dungeons were one of the hardest scaling damage wise.

i have a feeling that peopel who say it were lucky to have at least 1-2 people with tw gear on .

what i see is for example im dooing 5-8 times the aoe dmg of person who doesnt have it . on single target its not as big difference 2-3x but on trash ? its completly changing the pace.

for example just did pits without any problem - but me and mage in this group were doing 2-4 k dmg bursts on trash packs (depending whether wild spirits were off cd and lined up with fury of xuen ) - while 3rd dps was doing ...500.

[cparle87]

If it helps pet battles are broken as well... multi-hit abilities will not trigger if the first one is blocked... some bosses with 50% damage reduction have ability to shield for another 50% DR which gives 100% damage immunity for 3 out of every 4 rounds. All in all it's not a great time.

Both of those things are not bugs, that's working as intended.

[terminaltrip421]

it's probably been said but I'm only on page one and felt compelled to say re: wrath five mans; yes most of them were ridiculously easy, mostly when everyone outgeared them by several patches but they were still valuable for badges or whatever it was (I recall still running them, just don't remember what for) but there was the ICC dungeons only one of which really put groups in check -- the one with the lich king where you pretty much needed 3 or 4/5 to know the mechanics or you'd be stuck in that entrance room endlessly.

[cparle87]

But lets make sure freaking pet battles work well because that is most relevant content!

You are aware that Blizzard has multiple teams, right? It's not like they had a meeting and went "Ok, we only have enough people to fix one thing, which will it be? Timewalking or pet battles?"

Also got to love the ego of guys declaring that content they don't care about should be removed.

[Aresk]

Dungeons seem pretty standard for TW to me. Only time anyone died was when the first boss in Pit of Saron bugged and didn't throw a stone down for one of the forge phases. Heck, I ran three today with no weapon equipped (I had been doing some Argent Tournament dailies and forgot to reequip it after turning in a lance daily) and didn't even notice. I can't say for Ulduar, as I haven't run it, but everything else feels like previous Wrath timewalking events.

[Zentavius]

He wasn't hard. People just did not want to los nova/aura whatever was that thing and stood still.

"Hey I am doing long cast which will likely do a lot damage so you better move"
"i gotta deepz"


I actually loved him since it actually was boss where people had to move and in earlier stages at start stay grouped but I am weirdo because I like mechanics that involve whole group.

He was the boss that taught me to stop keyboard turning. I kept getting caught in Lightning Nova while tanking due to the slowness of a keyboard turn before running out, and a guildy a bit more advanced at the game than I told me to rebind to strafe and use mouse to spin. Lifechanger. On topic, I did a Pit of Saron last night and I was backfilled into a group after Garfrost. I initially thought the dungeon was way overtuned as people kept dying. After a few pulls I realised the tank was really not great. The group votekicked him sadly so he's not learned anything new, but the next guy was a tad better and only died to the Coldwraith Freezing Circle, which was deadly in its day too.

[Malania]

Had no trouble in them for DPS or Healing. It's you.

I did however cause a wipe in Pit of Saron by doing it old style and just running to the middle of the gauntlet to AOE the mini-boss and everything down and slightly overestimated the TW damage and ability for us to AOE and 1 on Garfrost as no-one but me knew you could reset stacks and I just assumed everyone had done it or remembered.

My bad

[Depakote]

Nah. Dungeons were a cakewalk until the 3 ICC heroics were added. The only dungeon before that that was remotely challenging was Oculus solely for the fact that people were too lazy to learn what the dragons did.

Mechanically, raids were child's play compared to the plethora of bullshit mechanics they pile into raid encounters nowadays. This is comparing normal Wrath raids to modern heroic raids, of course - modern normal is definitely a bit on the easier side.

Dungeons and raids are always hard until you learn them and out gear them. Just because the dungeons and raids are harder now doesn't mean the ones in the past were easy.

[leorana]

Dungeons seem pretty standard for TW to me. Only time anyone died was when the first boss in Pit of Saron bugged and didn't throw a stone down for one of the forge phases. Heck, I ran three today with no weapon equipped (I had been doing some Argent Tournament dailies and forgot to reequip it after turning in a lance daily) and didn't even notice. I can't say for Ulduar, as I haven't run it, but everything else feels like previous Wrath timewalking events.

Lol. At least you haven't PvPed in tol-barad while equipping your k'aluk fishing pole :-)

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Dungeons and raids are always hard until you learn them and out gear them. Just because the dungeons and raids are harder now doesn't mean the ones in the past were easy.

It was quite different then. There was no LFD tool until the end of the expansion. You had to spam trade to get a group, and get to the dungeon summoning stone. If you have someone you had to kick - that was a real pain to find a replacement. That's where server reputation kick(ed) in. Wrath dungeons were just about right fun-wise. When cata heroics came out there was a huge cry about how hard they are

[Sorrior]

I remember most of the mechanics from Dungeons and Raids all the way back to TBC. Wiping on all the content over a 2 year period before the next expansion launched kind of burns things into my mind. I'm fine =P

For the stuff i did definitely...i miss tgat actually.. now you wipe and oeople get pissy instead if trying again and solving shit

[stoffe]

I got a question. Is the timewalking dungeon gear suppose to be that low ilvl? Or is that a mess up from blizzard side? You would think that the item drop from the dungeon would be at least SL hc ilvl, maybe a bit higher since is only there like once every one and half month.

If i remember right the timewalking dungeon in BfA was higher ilvl the BfA hc, but it could just be me that is confusing everything.


I had hopes about some pretty easy alt gearing up via timewalking dungeon but oh well i can forget about that now!

[Toybox]

I got a question. Is the timewalking dungeon gear suppose to be that low ilvl? Or is that a mess up from blizzard side? You would think that the item drop from the dungeon would be at least SL hc ilvl, maybe a bit higher since is only there like once every one and half month.

If i remember right the timewalking dungeon in BfA was higher ilvl the BfA hc, but it could just be me that is confusing everything.


I had hopes about some pretty easy alt gearing up via timewalking dungeon but oh well i can forget about that now!

I agree. It's only a few ilvls higher than crafted gear people just make to level up their professions with Should definitely be a bit higher.

[Kuvanet]

I think blizzard is missing out on such a golden opportunity. Hear me out...I know it will need some tuning and a little work. But imagine this....Mythic+ for time walking dungeons. At the end of the week you will get a time waking vault on the highest key you did in the event. Just basically another vault for the week, I would love to do some BC mythic+.

[mistmitpandas]

i have a feeling that peopel who say it were lucky to have at least 1-2 people with tw gear on .

what i see is for example im dooing 5-8 times the aoe dmg of person who doesnt have it . on single target its not as big difference 2-3x but on trash ? its completly changing the pace.

for example just did pits without any problem - but me and mage in this group were doing 2-4 k dmg bursts on trash packs (depending whether wild spirits were off cd and lined up with fury of xuen ) - while 3rd dps was doing ...500.

Erm no? I had people with lik blue gear in it, level 166 or something. You just need to play the dungeon mechanics, thats what WOTL always was about. Didnt have a single wipe or problem.

[Baroclinic]

but they should make it more about "Fun". Having it be like the pvp brawls that change things up. They could have it like the anima power system from Thorghast.

It kinda is, just noone realizes. You can put on any piece of gear you loved from past expansions with any old enchant. I have 2 old trinkets, one drops spinning flaming swords and the other just splats the grounds with corruption. I'm sure some tanks just love fire and corruptions all over the ground at the same time. Think I'm going to add a giant lazer blast to the fun now.

Oh and the fond memories I had of infinite eyebeams one expansion ago.

Kickass leggo weapons, op bfa neck piece which is still probably better then what ever Shadowlands neck we have on now outside of Shadowlands. Except most people destroyed/sold all their cool useful stuff (which is funny since they will spend hours for tmog runs just to look pretty and now complain when they die in a timewalk).

Everytime I see a cool trinket that spits gnomes out or a 2-piece set I already over power, I think, how this will work in a timewalks? Then toss it in my bank.

[Depakote]

Lol. At least you haven't PvPed in tol-barad while equipping your k'aluk fishing pole :-)

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It was quite different then. There was no LFD tool until the end of the expansion. You had to spam trade to get a group, and get to the dungeon summoning stone. If you have someone you had to kick - that was a real pain to find a replacement. That's where server reputation kick(ed) in. Wrath dungeons were just about right fun-wise. When cata heroics came out there was a huge cry about how hard they are

That's not true about LFD. Looking for Group did much of the same thing LFD did and it was around at the beginning of the expansion. It pulled from people in a battlegroup instead of just random people from all over like now.

[shimerra]

It's an exaggeration anyway. So what if at ICC you could reliably pull everything to a boss in HCs and cleave it down, it was the last tier and HCs were still tuned around people in leveling greens.

Early on, for the ilvl they were designed for, those dungeons were quite deadly. Loken is a good example of a fight that you just couldn't beat sometimes with shitty gear because the numbers didn't allow it. Oculus actually required some tactical thinking with vehicles, as they weren't very powerful at the beginning. Even Cyanigosa could be deadly.

Wrath dungeons are remembered to be super easy because they were overgeared extremly quickly. Badge gear was all over the place and easy to get, Vault and Sarthation were weekly loot pinatas with good gear (x2, since 10 and 25 versions were separate), Naxxramas was a joke for anyone who had enough time to stay in a group. Players got raiding quality gear very quickly and even a few weeks in, those dungeons started to feel like HC dungeons feel like in Shadowlands currently, or even easier.

Um did you play during launch? It dungeons were piss easy at launch even in greens. Especially compared to TBC.


I lvl'd a DK first thing in wrath only a day or two behind most of my guildmates. The literal day I hit max level, again maybe 2 days after our first max lvls, which was only a few days after launch we fully cleared every single instance except oculus on heroic dragging me through as the tank with a pitifully low ilvl. Not because it was hard but because my buddies just hated the instance and the vehicle boss fight. Whole thing only took a few hours with snack breaks and dicking around. I had zero clue what I was doing as a massively under geared tank brand new to the class due to the lvling rush DK. I don't know if you recall but DK was so stupidly strong while leveling half my groups were 5 DKs to learn how to "really" tank. But some minor CC and smart interrupts and it wasn't long before even that went out the window. No one had stepped foot into naxx yet at least in my little group.

While it was easy to gear quickly as you mentioned you're definitely wrong about how hard it was in greens. It was not hard at all to get that gear in the first place and my single biggest problem to gearing was the heroic dungeon lock time and my own hit or miss luck. While I ended up raiding Sunwell in TBC I started out on a low pop server as basically the only decent tank in my guild. I was regularly locking myself to most of the available dungeons every day because to be frank the only other active tank they had was trash. TBC heroics were harder with a decent gear than Wrath instances were in greens. We even ended up doing the achievements out of boredom. The only real issue was Anub'arak and that was mostly because the timer was so short unless you got really lucky with procs/his abilities delaying his burrow it was basically a do over.

The only fights I remember being hard was Loken, and only because we had a pally healer and he struggled with the necessary movement any other healer it was a joke, but we still cheesed it without much problem and the occulus vehicle fight for pubs. Not because it was actually hard but because people were just dumb and couldn't get a simple button combo.

[kenn9530]

Ulduar TW isn't tuned for 158 gear, it's tuned for ilvl 200 as that's what it drops...

So of course you're going have a harder time

Its scaled done to ilvl 40 gear not tuned for 200 ilvl, it just drops that level of gear

[Zantera]

Pit of Saron seems a bit overtuned on damage but the others have been fine so far (I've done 8 or so in total). Can't say for the raid but would expect some dodgy trash or bosses but the rest might be fine.