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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    So 20 characters walking the same line and spamming the same abilities on tab target then not saying anything at all when they get noticed and when someone puts down target dummies? Yeah definitely not a bot 100% clean
    You just described mutli boxing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Are you botting by any chance? Cuz it sounds like you are.

    Mmmm, yes, let's reverse engineer a botting software quickly but before that don't we dare ban anyone actually botting.

    Yes I would blanket ban and what if they make a new one? I'd ban that too.
    They have the data to see where these druid bots are. Look at the data if there are a shitload of druids in an area just look at them and boom banned.
    Do this twice a day (but at least once).

    You can keep running your druid bots, I hope someone finds you and you get permad also.
    I don't bot. I only play one toon, so you can stop with the false accusations.

    You also show that you never read or listened to Blizzard at all. They don't ban right away so they can study the bots behavior and then break it. If you immediately ban them, you can't break the bot because you already got rid of it. THey will get a new account and start with teh same bot. You aren't accomplishing anything because you aren't even bothering to break the bot. You are only blanket banning anything that even remotely looks like a bot. All you will have done is wasted your time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Because they aren't quick enough to ban because they are "studying" to make the bot detection algorithm better for the last 15 years.

    It's easy to spot these guys. Ban them early, ban them quick. It no longer is profitable and these people move on.
    You are naive. They will just make a new account with a new bot. YOu cannot stop it if you don't break the bot no matter how many ties you ban. To think they will just give up if you ban faster is to live in a fantasy world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    It's been 15+ years. The bots still exist. The war needs to be waged differently.
    It's not going to matter how you wae the war. YOu cannot win if you don't break the bots. THe bot makers are continuously working to make their bots undetectable as Blizzard is to breaking them. You will NEVER stop the botting by simply banning them because it takes no time at all to create a new account.

    The only one that gets an f for their argument is you.

  2. #302
    What I find sadder than just about anything is more people come into to bash a streamer than to be disgusted at botting. I mean I don't know who the fuck enjoys watching games online.. let alone WOW (I mean its a snoozer to watch).. but if the guy is bringing mass attention to botting isn't it a good thing?

  3. #303
    Epic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Seconded, not because he's toxic. Just because he's got the face I most want to punch. Worth the jail time.
    Internet badass has joined the game.

  4. #304
    Rather have botts than this guy lol

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    What I find sadder than just about anything is more people come into to bash a streamer than to be disgusted at botting. I mean I don't know who the fuck enjoys watching games online.. let alone WOW (I mean its a snoozer to watch).. but if the guy is bringing mass attention to botting isn't it a good thing?
    its less the streamer but more the very perverse idea that fixing botting is a simple as pushing a button or ban the bots...In reality ya'll don't want a good solution to botting you want a VISIBLE solution to botting.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    its less the streamer
    Mate, that's just straight false, there are plenty of comments solely aimed at Asmongold or ones that suggest he's solely doing it for selfish goals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    In reality ya'll don't want a good solution to botting you want a VISIBLE solution to botting.
    I don't think those tar pits in Nazmir are part of your daily WoW tour, meaning that most people that go there actually want to check the situation out themselves.

    Wanting merely a "visible solution" and "specifically looking at a problem" just don't mix.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Mate, that's just straight false, there are plenty of comments solely aimed at Asmongold or ones that suggest he's solely doing it for selfish goals.
    ..ok well that's MY goal..can really care less about the guy personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't think those tar pits in Nazmir are part of your daily WoW tour, meaning that most people that go there actually want to check the situation out themselves.

    Wanting merely a "visible solution" and "specifically looking at a problem" just don't mix.
    yeah but honestly..if "report botting" instantly banned the person and with a giant hammer coming from the sky..you'll see less complaints about botting cause as far as most people know the bots are being banned...even though the amount will keep increasing...and people will complain about being falsly banned since the process is totally automated.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    its less the streamer but more the very perverse idea that fixing botting is a simple as pushing a button or ban the bots...In reality ya'll don't want a good solution to botting you want a VISIBLE solution to botting.
    In reality I don't want a what? A bot being visually gone is preferred to a bot being visible and botting I do agree there. I do understand it takes more to solve the problem than just ban hammering things. But you can do things in the meantime while you are working to actually break the program. Like knocking suspected bots offline. 200 boomkins running in the exact same lines for 22 hours probably should be enough to go in and kick them off line. Even if this only SLOWS THEM DOWN at least they are slowed while the bigger solution is being worked on. I understand this does not FIX ALL BOTTING PROBLEMS!! But at least the damage they are doing is curved down. EVEN IF ITS JUST A LITTLE. You think these AI GMs they have now would much more easily detect these repeat patterns running in massive numbers on the server and then have a time out limit to damage their gold per hour at the very least until the major attack can occur.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    ..ok well that's MY goal..can really care less about the guy personally.
    Doesn't change the fact that you replied to a person who pointed out that very thing...so yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    yeah but honestly..if "report botting" instantly banned the person and with a giant hammer coming from the sky..you'll see less complaints about botting cause as far as most people know the bots are being banned...even though the amount will keep increasing...and people will complain about being falsly banned since the process is totally automated.
    Automated banning via reports is a stupid idea in general, not just for botting but for the reason any group of people can abuse it - which has already happened.
    Mass report happening in a short timeframe always need at least a human being review those reports altough this is an issue hardly limited to Blizzard, a lot of companies like to save money on that front.

    Point is however that Blizzard either needs to step up their game in detection, as this isn't just one guy killing the same mobs over and over again, this is 10-20 people of the same class, running the same exact route(s), killing the same mobs over and over again.
    You cannot reasonably tell anyone that those characters have legitimate players behind them, simply because a human being doesn't reach that level of automation.

    At the very least, said detection should alert any people at Blizzard, because they are farming BfA, they don't even need to buy SL for those accounts, when you ban them every few months, it just makes no difference because said account broke even long time ago.
    Of course bots keep re appearing when you only ban after they already made a profit.

    And sadly, the community must seemingly put the finger in the wound here because Blizzard is hardly proactive here, we had this months ago in Classic, where botting was going rampant until social media sites and WoW content creators made a lot of fuss about it, then Blizzard actually started to step in harder, it's also there where they started sending out ingame mails to people that reported a bot.

  10. #310
    Bots exist because people buy gold and items.
    If people quit buying gold all those goldfarms wouldn't know what to do with their stock and vanish.
    People are such hypocrits with complaining about botters but I know more people who bought their 5000g for Epic Flying in TBC/Wrath than those who farmed it the legit way.
    2008 - 2018 World of Warcraft.
    Times change.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Ok lets humor your suggestion for a bit

    $500k for extra administrators....
    Lets be generous and say 30k per...so at 500k thats about 16 people to cover bot patrol as we shall call it 24 hours a day for 241 servers and all shards and zones l within those...and thats just US we still have EU, Australia, Asia, and South America to cover.

    So oh man $30k a year for basically 24 hour a day bot patrol suuure sounds fun and totally worth it (btw that job is exempt from Overtime per US laws) so i bet people are going to be rushing to that job and stay forever (it would have to be 24 hour watch cause like here the bots will just wait till off peak hours)

    Not to mention if it works as well as you say the better they do the faster they will get laid off...so they have incentive to not give a shit and let a few go cause if they work TOO WELL they are basically unemployed.

    But lets look at the job itself...500k is 16 people to cover ALL THOSE SERVERS. Shit lets make it interesting and they split it into 3 8 hour shifts so we have maybe 5 people per shift...plus they need a supervisor, insurance, they get sick sometimes, call off, might just say fuck it and quit and they will be MASSIVELY UNDERSTAFFED to do it.

    Yeah its not as easy as you think...raise number of people isnt going to make that better and i havent even talked about countries outside the US that probably have bot issues too


    Buuut pretty sure your beyond reason and just think blizz has a stop all bots lever that will solve all problems
    This is literally the dumbest thing I've read in this post. You're literally complaining about a shitty job that doesn't actually exist. This is absolutely non-constructive towards this post and you have 0 valid point here.

    Blizzard has the ability to do far more advanced queries into the behavior of users as well as gathering the historical data of characters and teleport around the game.

    In my post above, I identified at least 57 bots (Anyone in Aszuna, Suramar, Nazmir, and Iron Docks essentially) in 20 minutes using tools available to the average player on the client side (/who command and traveling with a toon to known botting spots).

    Blizzard could easily query the data available to them and accomplish the same thing in 5 minutes. I bet they also can see additional statistic we cannot. Such as:
    -Has the user chatted with other players?
    -Has he done anything other than kill mobs and mail gold?
    -How much time has he spent killing mobs and mailing gold?

    Some of this stuff can be used to identify abnormal player behavior. If a toon is logged on for 18 hours a day for six days in a row doing nothing but killing mobs in a hyperspawn in the same spot, then there is one of two possibilities:

    -Player is a bot
    -Player is exploiting the economy using input broadcasting

    You can probably cover all the server and run queries against their database with less than 5 people.

    So let's be generous and say they can pay them $100k salary + benefits to work a normal job that requires them to use their brain. You're whole argument is null and void. Please, see yourself out.

  12. #312
    Why do so many people think that hey actually care for bots? They don't. If Blizzard would decide to put an extra fee on banning bots, would you guys pay for it?

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    If Blizzard would decide to put an extra fee on banning bots, would you guys pay for it?
    You mean, pay Blizzard to enforce their own ToS?

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You just described mutli boxing.
    You've got no idea what you're talking about and it's blatantly obvious right here. What he just described is not, in fact, multiboxing. As someone who has multiboxed since TBC, I know what multiboxing looks like. The behavior he is describing looks nothing like multiboxing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I don't bot. I only play one toon, so you can stop with the false accusations.

    You also show that you never read or listened to Blizzard at all. They don't ban right away so they can study the bots behavior and then break it. If you immediately ban them, you can't break the bot because you already got rid of it. THey will get a new account and start with teh same bot. You aren't accomplishing anything because you aren't even bothering to break the bot. You are only blanket banning anything that even remotely looks like a bot. All you will have done is wasted your time.
    And you clearly don't read logic because you're, for whatever reason, blind to it. Multiple people, multiple times have pointed out in this thread that this has been Blizzard's excuse for the last 15 years. At some point, it becomes just that, an excuse.

    It's also been pointed out that the reason this becomes so prevalent is because of real money trading and the fact because of Blizzard's inaction, players can get away with it long enough to make it worth their while.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    You are naive. They will just make a new account with a new bot. YOu cannot stop it if you don't break the bot no matter how many ties you ban. To think they will just give up if you ban faster is to live in a fantasy world.
    Sorry but you are the naïve one here. The only reason they make a new account is because they make enough profit off the first account to make another account and continue to do it.

    Because they don't face quick enough action (see my post on previous page where one bot farm, I inspected toons and some of them were over a month old) it becomes literal real world profit or these people to continue doing it. Some of these people can literally make six figures in a year selling gold.

    The people aren't doing this for the luls of being able to buy every BMAH crate they want. They have incentive to continue making the new account because they're making money. Take away the incentive by banning them quicker and suddenly they're not making money and eventually they stop botting.

    This is basic business.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    It's not going to matter how you wae the war. YOu cannot win if you don't break the bots. THe bot makers are continuously working to make their bots undetectable as Blizzard is to breaking them. You will NEVER stop the botting by simply banning them because it takes no time at all to create a new account.

    The only one that gets an f for their argument is you.
    Then we've lost the war and everyone might as well give up because you're clearly naïve if you think the bot makers won't stop trying to improve their software to avoid detection.

    Please, see yourself out of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    its less the streamer but more the very perverse idea that fixing botting is a simple as pushing a button or ban the bots...In reality ya'll don't want a good solution to botting you want a VISIBLE solution to botting.
    Okay, explain. It's easy to say this and then coward out from actually providing logic and reasoning to your thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    yeah but honestly..if "report botting" instantly banned the person and with a giant hammer coming from the sky..you'll see less complaints about botting cause as far as most people know the bots are being banned...even though the amount will keep increasing...and people will complain about being falsly banned since the process is totally automated.
    Some of us are pro-active and constantly report. Some of us get the messages that users were banned. Yet, we still see bots. Why? Because they aren't taking action quick enough. Blizzard is being lazy and not being proactive to getting botting taken care of.

    They've been saying for 15+ years they need to observe the bots to detect them but here we are, 15 years later, and the bots are still prevalant.

    If they were proactive about searching for behavior that is outside normal user behavior (seriously, /who Iron Docks. /who 50 Druid on your server) and hit these people with the ban hammers before they can farm enough gold to make it profitable, they will eventually stop.

    These people doing botting, their not your average player. They are literal organizations selling gold. Hit their profit margins and make them unprofitable and they will eventually be forced to close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Automated banning via reports is a stupid idea in general, not just for botting but for the reason any group of people can abuse it - which has already happened.
    Mass report happening in a short timeframe always need at least a human being review those reports altough this is an issue hardly limited to Blizzard, a lot of companies like to save money on that front.
    I 100% agree. Whichever dumb fuck in a suit thought of automating their GM team via reports and algorithm's deserves to be whipped with a fucking cane. They should be removed and more GMs should be hired back. The company made billions in PROFIT in 2019.

  15. #315
    Agree with topic but cannot stand asmongold so i'm torn.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhyroth View Post
    Bots exist because people buy gold and items.
    If people quit buying gold all those goldfarms wouldn't know what to do with their stock and vanish.
    People are such hypocrits with complaining about botters but I know more people who bought their 5000g for Epic Flying in TBC/Wrath than those who farmed it the legit way.
    I will admit. A long time ago, I used to buy gold on occasion. Eventually, around Wrath, I became a goblin.

    The whole point of the WoW token was to cut down on real money trading but there are two problems with the WoW token that people still prefer buying gold.

    1- You can only buy a maximum of 20 WoW tokens per week.

    This LIMITS the amount of gold. There is some COMPLEXITY to the situation when certain people and guilds need a METHOD of gathering large amounts of gold to get PIECES of gear or raid consumables when they participate in activities that require millions of gold.

    [You don't believe me? We have proof that this is the case.](https://twitter.com/ScripeWoW/status...52868115128322)

    2- You need to sell those tokens on the AH.

    My buddy buys tokens on occasion. It takes anywhere from 1-5 hours to sell a WoW token. These gold sellers used to deliver gold within 10 minutes. I suspect they still deliver that fast but I'm not going to bother looking it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    Why do so many people think that hey actually care for bots? They don't. If Blizzard would decide to put an extra fee on banning bots, would you guys pay for it?
    You mean like a $15-$20 subscription fee? Something that almost no other MMO currently on the market has anymore?

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Thokri View Post
    I am quite disappointed if wow streamer pretend to not have known how bad boomkin botting has become in BFA.


    Actiblizz won't do anything since they give don't a shit. Never have and I have doubts they actually do banwaves even anymore.
    They do ban waves for PVE bots that play your class for you in raids/dungeons

  18. #318

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    I will admit. A long time ago, I used to buy gold on occasion. Eventually, around Wrath, I became a goblin.

    The whole point of the WoW token was to cut down on real money trading but there are two problems with the WoW token that people still prefer buying gold.

    1- You can only buy a maximum of 20 WoW tokens per week.

    This LIMITS the amount of gold. There is some COMPLEXITY to the situation when certain people and guilds need a METHOD of gathering large amounts of gold to get PIECES of gear or raid consumables when they participate in activities that require millions of gold.

    [You don't believe me? We have proof that this is the case.](https://twitter.com/ScripeWoW/status...52868115128322)

    2- You need to sell those tokens on the AH.

    My buddy buys tokens on occasion. It takes anywhere from 1-5 hours to sell a WoW token. These gold sellers used to deliver gold within 10 minutes. I suspect they still deliver that fast but I'm not going to bother looking it up.

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    You mean like a $15-$20 subscription fee? Something that almost no other MMO currently on the market has anymore?
    Man your comment was pure gold. You just made my weekend.
    2008 - 2018 World of Warcraft.
    Times change.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    And you clearly don't read logic because you're, for whatever reason, blind to it. Multiple people, multiple times have pointed out in this thread that this has been Blizzard's excuse for the last 15 years. At some point, it becomes just that, an excuse.
    Not an excuse. Not your fault you live a fantasy and aren't living in reality

    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    It's also been pointed out that the reason this becomes so prevalent is because of real money trading and the fact because of Blizzard's inaction, players can get away with it long enough to make it worth their while.
    You are pointing out a fallacy because you continue to fail to realize that it is very cheap to set up a new account and you don't need gold to get one and they use the cash people pay to buy gold.



    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Sorry but you are the naïve one here. The only reason they make a new account is because they make enough profit off the first account to make another account and continue to do it.
    Wrong. It doesn't take much money to set up a new account. Hell they make what they need to get a new account very quickly and the money is no big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Because they don't face quick enough action (see my post on previous page where one bot farm, I inspected toons and some of them were over a month old) it becomes literal real world profit or these people to continue doing it. Some of these people can literally make six figures in a year selling gold.
    Wrong. It does not matter how fast the action is. They will just set up a new account and be back at it. You have to break the bot to end it. Bannin will do nothing by itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    The people aren't doing this for the luls of being able to buy every BMAH crate they want. They have incentive to continue making the new account because they're making money. Take away the incentive by banning them quicker and suddenly they're not making money and eventually they stop botting.

    This is basic business.
    Still living the fantasy. It takes them almost no time to make money. They aren't going to stop botting no matter how fast you ban them because they will have made money before you see them. After one bot is broken, they have a new one up and running.



    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Then we've lost the war and everyone might as well give up because you're clearly naïve if you think the bot makers won't stop trying to improve their software to avoid detection.
    That is what I have been trying to tell you. It does not matter how fast you ban. They will continue to bot and even if you break the bot, they will made a new one and keep botting.

    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    Please, see yourself out of this thread.
    Said when you know you have no argument. I will continue to voice my opinion and will continue to talk about what is actually there that Blizzard contends with and not in fallacies,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    What I find sadder than just about anything is more people come into to bash a streamer than to be disgusted at botting. I mean I don't know who the fuck enjoys watching games online.. let alone WOW (I mean its a snoozer to watch).. but if the guy is bringing mass attention to botting isn't it a good thing?
    HE ISN'T BRINGING MASS ATTENTION TO ANYTHING! Everyone is already aware of the problem. Blizzard is aware of the problem. There was absolutely zero reason to bring him up at all to create this thread.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    What I find sadder than just about anything is more people come into to bash a streamer than to be disgusted at botting. I mean I don't know who the fuck enjoys watching games online.. let alone WOW (I mean its a snoozer to watch).. but if the guy is bringing mass attention to botting isn't it a good thing?
    Everyone hates botting, there's no discussion to be had. And there already is mass attention to it, so to play jesus and claim every effort against it to himself makes me not like this person, since he does not have the ability to do anything against it, neither do his followers or anyone else than Blizzard. And since the protest is not directed at Blizz and does not harm them, they will hardly act on this, meaning this is a PR stunt, nothing more.

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