1. #4701
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this kind of commission is just a special investigation, right?

    The DOJ can still, like, investigate and prosecute crimes committed, right?.
    Yes, that's ongoing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    But it wasn't ever going to pass. And she did win, and that win gave us the Senate. I know she's a pain in the ass, but she's our pain in the ass, with that nice big (D) beside her name. Which is Yuge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polyxo View Post
    Yeah. We're not going to get Arizona at this point if we run like, an Elizabeth Warren. Or even like a Hillary Clinton. The way forward is to run more liberal candidates in places that've turned safer, like Virginia, and then get more moderates in contested places like Texas. Also, get more states.
    I'll be surprised if she doesn't get a primary challenge. The growing dem presence there isn't your typical red-state democrats. The populace there isn't west virginia voting for manchin. It's a reddish state where a bunch of very liberal older people are moving. What FL has in political adherents for the GOP moving south as they age, AZ has for the progressive left. They're the business hippies who think hiking and public service is better than the beach for retirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    what are the reasons republicans are giving to block investigations? (In my eyes, investigations should happen, that storming wasnt ''free speech'' but an assault on goverment assets)
    2022 elections. The turtle is devoid of morals.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Does a filibuster seriously require a majority of total members to clear, and not just a majority of members present? What the everloving fuck?
    Filibuster requires 3/5 of the chamber to override. Not majority. Her vote/presence wouldn't have made a difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  2. #4702
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...ommission-bill



    And blocked in the Senate.

    Reminder: Republicans are the party of pro-insurrection, pro-police assault, pro-shitting on the floors in the halls of Congress, pro-kidnapping, pro-assassination, pro-conspiracy theories. Elected Republicans are just awful, terrible, no good people.

    I genuinely don't know how they sleep at night, but it must be really nice not having a moral compass or any semblance of a conscience.
    The US is lost. Unless something major happens soon the US will fall in 2022.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    You are correct - the Bi-partisan commission is just a special investigation. It does not affect the DoJ work in any capacity.

    And yeah, it appears bipartisanship is truly dead. Even with six GOP senators voting in favor, Moscow Mitch killed it.
    The GQP are now a terrorist organization and need to be treated as such. There is no compromising or cooperation with terrorists. Voting isn't going to fix this in 2022 because of all the groundwork the GQP are laying currently with various voter suppression bills and upcoming gerrymandering due to new census results.

    We. Are. Fucked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Sinema, a Democrat from Arizona "Missed" the vote. Whe The Bleep nominated her in the Dem primaries" She is a waste.
    She was Green Party which is a front for the GQP to divide the vote and allow republicans to win elections. She is nothing but trash. Her little curtsy when she voted against raising the minimum wage proved it. Fuck her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    But it wasn't ever going to pass. And she did win, and that win gave us the Senate. I know she's a pain in the ass, but she's our pain in the ass, with that nice big (D) beside her name. Which is Yuge.
    No. The party she belonged to previously is well known to be a spoiler for elections. She is absolutely 100% not remotely close to anything Democrat. She is serving her GQP overlords well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://twitter.com/rcdimezzo/status...16888341852162



    Worth noting. Republicans have no appreciation for law enforcement, or the people who literally risked their lives to save the lives of members of the Senate, some likely very directly, like Romney. They have no respect for the officer that risked his life to draw the mob away from lawmakers while suffering racist verbal abuse and physical threats.

    Republicans are scum. Republicans are filth. I can only hope that their violent, unhinged base turns on them, next.
    Thank fucking god for Goodman or we would very likely be in a far more worse situation right now. It is insane how much denial there is about how close we came to the US falling and make no mistake about it, the US is still falling just a little more slowly than the fascists would like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    what are the reasons republicans are giving to block investigations? (In my eyes, investigations should happen, that storming wasnt ''free speech'' but an assault on goverment assets)
    They have no legitimate reasons. They are terrorists and despite being a minority party they still have a stranglehold over this country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I think McConnell said some bullshit about moving on and not dwelling on the past.
    Moscow Mitch was literally pressuring GQP senators to vote against the commission as a "personal favor".

    These traitors aren't even hiding it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Does a filibuster seriously require a majority of total members to clear, and not just a majority of members present? What the everloving fuck?
    Fucking Manchin had the balls to actually bitch about how the vote went. He is literally 1 of 2 reasons why the fillibuster exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    Which is gut busting hilarious from the man who oversaw the Senate during 4 years of Benghazi and buttery males investigations.
    Literally THIRTY THREE Benghazi investigations. Democrats and this nation are in a fight for their lives. They need to start fucking acting like it or its over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Filibustering is more about Jim Crow than slavery.
    Yes because Jim Crow laws totally have nothing to do with slavery. Are you fucking serious right now? Jim Crow was the response to slavery no longer being allowed and a way to keep black people subservient to whites. Jesus fucking christ people never fucking learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    At this point winning is more determined by voting laws than actual voting with Jim Crow 2.0 laws passed in all these states republicans now have the power of simply throwing out votes. I don't think the problem is liberal candidates because the right wing is going to run more batshit Marjorie Taylor Greene candidates. All democrats have to do is remove Joe Manchin from McConnell's ass to get rid of the filibuster to pass the voting rights act. If democrats don't get their shit together and let these laws stand it won't matter who we run in those states.
    We heard endless bleating about voting during the worst year of this country's history and yes it resulted in Trump being out of office but he is still running the GQP and his crazy followers are gaining more and more influence and support. Voting is not going to fix anything in the US at this point. The GQP is stacking the deck against anyone who disagrees with them and it is actually going to work.

  3. #4703
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    The GQP are now a terrorist organization and need to be treated as such. There is no compromising or cooperation with terrorists. Voting isn't going to fix this in 2022 because of all the groundwork the GQP are laying currently with various voter suppression bills and upcoming gerrymandering due to new census results.

    We. Are. Fucked.
    Agreed. I spent a serious half hour looking at places to move to in Canada. I figure @Endus can be my sponsor.

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    No. The party she belonged to previously is well known to be a spoiler for elections. She is absolutely 100% not remotely close to anything Democrat. She is serving her GQP overlords well.
    She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.

  4. #4704
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.
    "Control".

    Much control when she partners with the Treason and Sedition Party to block any actual progress.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  5. #4705
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    The Republicans complaining "it's political" are literally playing politics here. It's a bloody independent commission, unlike the Senate investigations beginning now which are being done by politicians. And those investigations aren't very comprehensive, there are more than just two in the Senate but they're not making much headway.

    The whole point of the independent commission is that it's not politicians running the show, and members are appointed by leaders of both parties, and it has broad and expansive investigatory powers. This is functionally the same design as the 9/11 commission.

    That those other investigations are happening, and are investigating various specifics about the riot, this is a separate, far more comprehensive and all encompassing investigation with the intent of providing something like the 9/11 Report.
    I'm less fearful that House and Senate investigations run by the party most interested in making Republicans bear increased blame will fail for comprehensiveness nor for lack of power. I'll reserve my full opinion and retrospective at least until equal time has passed between 9/11 and the 9/11 commission.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  6. #4706
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Agreed. I spent a serious half hour looking at places to move to in Canada. I figure @Endus can be my sponsor.



    She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.
    I really want to know why she had to leave DC before this vote though. It will be some stupid bullshit thing but I still want to know. I'm just ashamed of the US right now. We can do better. We are better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    "Control".

    Much control when she partners with the Treason and Sedition Party to block any actual progress.
    This is why the DOJ needs to start filing charges against various Senators directly involved in the planning of 1/6. Get these traitorous fucks out of office and actually get to work on fixing the damage of the past year. It is insane we have literal criminals and traitors blocking legislation we desperately need.

    Election day is not going to fix this because state legislatures are making sure that won't happen. I think it is time to go full nuclear and actually start fighting back because Democrats have nothing to lose. In 2022 we are done. Period. End of story. There is no hope of changing course. We need to start pushing for these traitors to be charged with the crimes they have committed and we need to stop with this "wheels of justice turn slowly" bullshit. We all saw what happened on 1/6. It has been fully documented by the perpetrators and posted on social media and we have access to the parler dump.

    It is time to take a stand. We need to stop putting up with this bullshit and they are going to keep murdering us whenever they can.

    It is time for the ammo box. We literally have multiple GQP members threatening to kill those who disagree.

    The constitution has already been thrown out the window and it can not and will not save us. The military already noped out prior to 1/6. We are on our own.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2021-05-29 at 06:08 AM.

  7. #4707
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    I'm just ashamed of the US right now. We can do better. We are better.

    Could we do better? Absolutely.

    Are we actually better? No. No we are not.

    After 8 years of Dubya Bush and watching that degenerate into Trumpism with the pathetic shitshow that the were the Obama years in between, we are absolutely not better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I'm less fearful that House and Senate investigations run by the party most interested in making Republicans bear increased blame will fail for comprehensiveness nor for lack of power. I'll reserve my full opinion and retrospective at least until equal time has passed between 9/11 and the 9/11 commission.
    Just for sake of clarity.

    Are you suggesting 1/6 wasn't a purely Republican affair provoked and cheered on the likes of Trump, Hawley, Cruz etc?

    Are you suggesting there are 2 sides to this?

  8. #4708
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I'm less fearful that House and Senate investigations run by the party most interested in making Republicans bear increased blame will fail for comprehensiveness nor for lack of power. I'll reserve my full opinion and retrospective at least until equal time has passed between 9/11 and the 9/11 commission.
    one party has members of it that should be put on trial and dragged to a gallows for their participation in trying to overthrow our democracy. this is a fact and anyone saying otherwise are equally suspect.

  9. #4709
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    one party has members of it that should be put on trial and dragged to a gallows for their participation in trying to overthrow our democracy. this is a fact and anyone saying otherwise are equally suspect.
    "Dragged to a gallows" is perhaps a bit much.

    It would be sufficient for them to be charged and convicted for the aid and comfort they offered to insurrectionists. Since, y'know, legal definition of insurrection.

    That drags them out of office, and once the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene are out of office and unable to ever run again, they matter as much to US society as your everyday average Karen getting tackled to the ground in an airport for refusing to wear a mask while boarding.

  10. #4710
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "Dragged to a gallows" is perhaps a bit much.

    It would be sufficient for them to be charged and convicted for the aid and comfort they offered to insurrectionists. Since, y'know, legal definition of insurrection.

    That drags them out of office, and once the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene are out of office and unable to ever run again, they matter as much to US society as your everyday average Karen getting tackled to the ground in an airport for refusing to wear a mask while boarding.
    For her to be unable to run for office again wouldn’t Congress have to impeach, convict, and bar her?

  11. #4711
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "Dragged to a gallows" is perhaps a bit much.

    It would be sufficient for them to be charged and convicted for the aid and comfort they offered to insurrectionists. Since, y'know, legal definition of insurrection.

    That drags them out of office, and once the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene are out of office and unable to ever run again, they matter as much to US society as your everyday average Karen getting tackled to the ground in an airport for refusing to wear a mask while boarding.
    yes, but there were elements within the insurrection that had every intention of murdering members of congress to install a dictator. from the zip-tie guys all the way to members of congress and the senate. thankfully for us all they didn't succeed, but that right there presents the problem of it happening again.

    I guess my tolerance for these right wingers and their behavior is at the end of it's rope. I want these people expunged from our society, one way or the other.

  12. #4712
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    For her to be unable to run for office again wouldn’t Congress have to impeach, convict, and bar her?
    Nope!

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

    18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

    Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


    Important bits in bold. That's just normal crime; the DOJ can prosecute any sitting member of Congress just fine for these crimes; only the President has any kind of immunity from prosecution while in office. This is one of the only crimes that has that tagline. Also, note that the wording states that the barring from office is a mandatory sentencing clause, not one up for judicial discretion like the fine or prison sentence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    yes, but there were elements within the insurrection that had every intention of murdering members of congress to install a dictator. from the zip-tie guys all the way to members of congress and the senate. thankfully for us all they didn't succeed, but that right there presents the problem of it happening again.

    I guess my tolerance for these right wingers and their behavior is at the end of it's rope. I want these people expunged from our society, one way or the other.
    I'm not suggesting that the insurrection was a small thing. It wasn't, and anyone part of the crowd that broke into the Capitol should be facing five years or more in prison, just for their participation, with higher sentences for those who did more than just follow along.

    I'm speaking to the likes of politicians whose only participation was Tweeting support or assistance. Lauren Boebert should be dead simple to convict, as she was literally tweeting the location of the Speaker as people were breaking in to try and kill her. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, for instance, Tweeted that the rioters were Democrats; that's an attempt to deflect blame from the actual criminals, and that qualifies as "aid and comfort". So she should be convicted too.

    I just feel that 5+ years in prison over a tweet is perhaps a bit much. Removing them from office and barring them from national politics forever is fine, in that case. Particularly since that's a standard that can be applied to, like, a massive chunk of Republican representation. A lot.

  13. #4713
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nope!

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

    18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

    Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


    Important bits in bold. That's just normal crime; the DOJ can prosecute any sitting member of Congress just fine for these crimes; only the President has any kind of immunity from prosecution while in office. This is one of the only crimes that has that tagline. Also, note that the wording states that the barring from office is a mandatory sentencing clause, not one up for judicial discretion like the fine or prison sentence.

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    I'm not suggesting that the insurrection was a small thing. It wasn't, and anyone part of the crowd that broke into the Capitol should be facing five years or more in prison, just for their participation, with higher sentences for those who did more than just follow along.

    I'm speaking to the likes of politicians whose only participation was Tweeting support or assistance. Lauren Boebert should be dead simple to convict, as she was literally tweeting the location of the Speaker as people were breaking in to try and kill her. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, for instance, Tweeted that the rioters were Democrats; that's an attempt to deflect blame from the actual criminals, and that qualifies as "aid and comfort". So she should be convicted too.

    I just feel that 5+ years in prison over a tweet is perhaps a bit much. Removing them from office and barring them from national politics forever is fine, in that case. Particularly since that's a standard that can be applied to, like, a massive chunk of Republican representation. A lot.
    The issue here is the courts have yet to charge ANYONE with insurrection and seem unlikely to. Makes it hard to charge her for it.

  14. #4714
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm not suggesting that the insurrection was a small thing. It wasn't, and anyone part of the crowd that broke into the Capitol should be facing five years or more in prison, just for their participation, with higher sentences for those who did more than just follow along.

    I'm speaking to the likes of politicians whose only participation was Tweeting support or assistance. Lauren Boebert should be dead simple to convict, as she was literally tweeting the location of the Speaker as people were breaking in to try and kill her. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, for instance, Tweeted that the rioters were Democrats; that's an attempt to deflect blame from the actual criminals, and that qualifies as "aid and comfort". So she should be convicted too.

    I just feel that 5+ years in prison over a tweet is perhaps a bit much. Removing them from office and barring them from national politics forever is fine, in that case. Particularly since that's a standard that can be applied to, like, a massive chunk of Republican representation. A lot.
    true, very true, fuck just with them kicking Trump off of social media has done a lot to push him out of the public conscious.

  15. #4715
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The issue here is the courts have yet to charge ANYONE with insurrection and seem unlikely to. Makes it hard to charge her for it.
    That I put down to rank cowardice on the part of the legal system.

    "Oh, we can't charge them with the crime they obviously committed! Clearly, those participating in the "January 6 Insurrection" were not actually committing insurrection!"

    The only hope I have is that the DOJ is taking a "lock them in for the easy crimes, and then nail the worst of them with Insurrection, and then fast-track adding those charges to everyone else remotely associated in a grand sweep" approach.

    Like, you folks down south have a ton of prisons. Legalize weed, nullify the sentences of anyone who's in there on weed charges and release them, and fill the spots with insurrectionists. Easy.

  16. #4716
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That I put down to rank cowardice on the part of the legal system.

    "Oh, we can't charge them with the crime they obviously committed! Clearly, those participating in the "January 6 Insurrection" were not actually committing insurrection!"

    The only hope I have is that the DOJ is taking a "lock them in for the easy crimes, and then nail the worst of them with Insurrection, and then fast-track adding those charges to everyone else remotely associated in a grand sweep" approach.

    Like, you folks down south have a ton of prisons. Legalize weed, nullify the sentences of anyone who's in there on weed charges and release them, and fill the spots with insurrectionists. Easy.
    They prioritize the first amendment or they’d be charging EVERY protest that becomes violent as insurrection.

  17. #4717
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The issue here is the courts have yet to charge ANYONE with insurrection and seem unlikely to. Makes it hard to charge her for it.
    What makes you say this? The FBI is still investigating. They've charged a lot of people involved with lower level crimes to get them in the system, but they haven't ended their investigation, and the investigation isn't solely directed at finding new perpetrators. I suspect everyone there who was in "the stack" is going to end up with a lot more serious charges than they've got now. Since they actually in violence, they're not just involved in sedition, but actual insurrection. They've already charged one guy who wasn't even there with conspiracy, which would mean that people who are only involved in planning could be charged similarly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  18. #4718
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    What makes you say this? The FBI is still investigating. They've charged a lot of people involved with lower level crimes to get them in the system, but they haven't ended their investigation, and the investigation isn't solely directed at finding new perpetrators. I suspect everyone there who was in "the stack" is going to end up with a lot more serious charges than they've got now. Since they actually in violence, they're not just involved in sedition, but actual insurrection. They've already charged one guy who wasn't even there with conspiracy, which would mean that people who are only involved in planning could be charged similarly.
    The entire history of our legal system.

  19. #4719
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    They prioritize the first amendment or they’d be charging EVERY protest that becomes violent as insurrection.
    Only if it intends to overthrow the government. Just because you're violent doesn't mean you're trying to overthrow the gov't. Being violent to force congress to put someone other than who was elected in the presidency is trying to overthrow the gov't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The entire history of our legal system.
    The one that does this regularly? Charges smaller crimes to hold people while it continues investigating?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  20. #4720
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Only if it intends to overthrow the government. Just because you're violent doesn't mean you're trying to overthrow the gov't. Being violent to force congress to put someone other than who was elected in the presidency is trying to overthrow the gov't.

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    The one that does this regularly? Charges smaller crimes to hold people while it continues investigating?
    The one that only brings insurrection charges in exceedingly rare circumstances due to prioritizing the first amendment. They’ll get charges like what we’ve seen brought, but insurrection isn’t something anyone should count on.

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