1. #4741
    The Undying
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    Perhaps back onto the thread topic:

    Retired US general says the Trump White House 'was complicit in the planning' of the January 6 insurrection.

    Read that again. Seriously. Then do it a third time.

    Retired Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, who was tasked by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi with conducting a review of the US Capitol's security after January 6, on Tuesday said [R]esident Donald Trump's White House was complicit in orchestrating the insurrection.
    Then read that again.

  2. #4742
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloie View Post
    While I somewhat agree with the sentiment, I don’t think generalizing that harshly is constructive. I feel that it just alienates the republican minded that aren’t like that. It really isn’t spelled out in black and white like that, as much as I wish it was.
    My wife has the morning news on. I am not sure which station she had on at the time. They had an audio recording (well there might have been video as well, I was listening not watching).

    Trump supporters are majorly doubling down. They were angry and defiant, and they made it quite clear that in their mind nothing bad happened on January 6th that was out of the ordinary, and the whole investigation is just a political stunt concocted by Nancy Pelosi to smear Donald Trump ONE MORE TIME.

    During her opening statement, Liz Cheney stated something that almost shocked me. He last words were something like "... this republic. Which we have for now.". Ok I shouldn't have quoted it because I don't have the exact phrasing. But she made it quite clear that she viewed this as not only a constitutional crisis, but as an existential one for democracy in the US. Her approach is correct.

    At this point, Trump supporters have made it quite clear that they are going all in on winning. They will defend what THEY do to the max, even spewing out angry statements that they know are flat out false. The will attack anyone that tries to get in their way.

    Their vision for the US is not a pleasant one. Not even for most of them. Dying from the virus seems to be at the top of their agenda. Things are drastic enough that there is not much room for moderates to be complacent or mute on this. After all, if they win they won't treat you any better than they treat me.
    Last edited by Omega10; 2021-07-28 at 06:08 PM.

  3. #4743
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    My wife has the morning news on. I am not sure which station she had on at the time. They had an audio recording (well there might have been video as well, I was listening not watching).

    Trump supporters are majorly doubling down. They were angry and defiant, and they made it quite clear that in their mind nothing bad happened on January 6th that was out of the ordinary, and the whole investigation is just a political stunt concocted by Nancy Pelosi to smear Donald Trump ONE MORE TIME.

    During her opening statement, Liz Cheney stated something that almost shocked me. He last words were something like "... this republic. Which we have for now.". Ok I shouldn't have quoted it because I don't have the exact phrasing. But she made it quite clear that she viewed this as not only a constitutional crisis, but as an existential one for democracy in the US. Her approach is correct.

    At this point, Trump supporters have made it quite clear that they are going all in on winning. They will defend what THEY do to the max, even spewing out angry statements that they know are flat out false. The will attack anyone that tries to get in their way.

    Their vision for the US is not a pleasant one. Not even for most of them. Dying from the virus seems to be at the top of their agenda. Things are drastic enough that there is not much room for moderates to be complacent or mute on this. After all, if they win they won't treat you any better than they treat me.
    It's because, as much as I may politically disagree with her, Liz Cheney does not seem to be a fascist. Unlike most of her party, unfortunately.

    See, the problem is the whole "we'll take back the government in 2024 to save the country from the Democrats" rhetoric. First, "take back" suggests you're owed that control, which you aren't, and any democracy is meant to be a state of compromise. Second, fascism always cloaks its rhetoric; you'll "show" your enemies "who's boss", you'll "clear the slate", you'll "protect the nation" from them, etc. Those are all euphemisms. What they mean, every time, is "mass executions of our political rivals and naysayers". They may not start there right away, but they will always end up there, and that's always the eventual goal.

    That's the difference in rhetoric, between the parties. The Democrats want Republicans to stop being nuts and come back to the table and govern the nation. The Republicans want the Democrats to no longer exist, and they'll resort to mass murders as soon as they can legalize it somehow.

    It really is that extreme and that simple. And this isn't in any way new; this is exactly the pattern that's been seen in every other rise of fascism, and why we can so easily see the undercurrents and euphemisms in play, here, again.

    Sure, #NotAllRepublicans, but there's a handful that don't fall into this category. Maybe as many as 10 or 15 in all of Congress.


  4. #4744
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/polit...cop/index.html

    A Virginia police officer who was fired after storming the US Capitol was jailed Wednesday by a federal judge because he ordered a large stockpile of guns and ammunition after his January arrest, and posted online in support of future political violence.

    Thomas Robertson, a retired Army Reservist who later worked for the Rocky Mount Police Department, was one of the first rioters charged by the Justice Department.

    He was released in January but re-arrested last month after investigators said they found a rifle and bomb-making material in his home, and also learned that he recently bought another 37 guns on the Internet. The decision from Judge Christopher Cooper means Robertson will stay behind bars until his case is resolved, which could take months or even drag into 2022.

    ...

    "I have learned that if you peacefully protest than you will be arrested, fired, be put on a no-fly list," he allegedly posted on an online gun forum last month. "I have learned very well that if you dip your toe into the Rubicon... cross it. Cross it hard and violent and play for all the marbles."
    Not much, just another insurrectionist appearing to turn wannabe domestic terrorist.

  5. #4745
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's because, as much as I may politically disagree with her, Liz Cheney does not seem to be a fascist. Unlike most of her party, unfortunately.

    See, the problem is the whole "we'll take back the government in 2024 to save the country from the Democrats" rhetoric. First, "take back" suggests you're owed that control, which you aren't, and any democracy is meant to be a state of compromise. Second, fascism always cloaks its rhetoric; you'll "show" your enemies "who's boss", you'll "clear the slate", you'll "protect the nation" from them, etc. Those are all euphemisms. What they mean, every time, is "mass executions of our political rivals and naysayers". They may not start there right away, but they will always end up there, and that's always the eventual goal.

    That's the difference in rhetoric, between the parties. The Democrats want Republicans to stop being nuts and come back to the table and govern the nation. The Republicans want the Democrats to no longer exist, and they'll resort to mass murders as soon as they can legalize it somehow.

    It really is that extreme and that simple. And this isn't in any way new; this is exactly the pattern that's been seen in every other rise of fascism, and why we can so easily see the undercurrents and euphemisms in play, here, again.

    Sure, #NotAllRepublicans, but there's a handful that don't fall into this category. Maybe as many as 10 or 15 in all of Congress.
    Agreed. I will give Liz Cheney credit for standing strong. Here is the last paragraph of her statement at the investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...hearing-500836

    Title: Read: Liz Cheney's opening statement at Jan. 6 hearing

    btw - her statement was quite powerful. I wish I heard the beginning of it. My initial thought was only to bold the last sentence. After reading it again I decided the whole thing was bold worthy.

    America is great because we preserve our democratic institutions at all costs. Until January 6th, we were proof positive for the world that a nation conceived in liberty could long endure. But now, January 6th threatens our most sacred legacy. The question for every one of us who serves in Congress, for every elected official across this great nation, indeed, for every American is this: Will we adhere to the rule of law? Will we respect the rulings of our courts? Will we preserve the peaceful transition of power? Or will we be so blinded by partisanship that we throw away the miracle of America? Do we hate our political adversaries more than we love our country and revere our Constitution? I pray that that is not the case. I pray that we all remember, our children are watching, as we carry out this solemn and sacred duty entrusted to us. Our children will know who stood for truth, and they will inherit the nation we hand to them – a Republic, if we can keep it.

  6. #4746
    Blademaster Aloie's Avatar
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    The scary part is that he was able to obtain those guns. That’s a right that is supposed to be waived once you’re deemed a true threat to society

  7. #4747
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...mpression=true

    Why would Mo Brooks need to wear body armor while speaking with a crowd of peaceful patriots?

  8. #4748
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloie View Post
    While I somewhat agree with the sentiment, I don’t think generalizing that harshly is constructive. I feel that it just alienates the republican minded that aren’t like that. It really isn’t spelled out in black and white like that, as much as I wish it was.
    The GOP has already blocked any real immediate repercussions so might as go in unfiltered. That's if you believe trying to maintain a civil discourse. I personally do not think this is a situation that warrants any sort of political correctness. The participants were terrorists who sought to undermine the United States democratic process through violence and the threat of violence. They attacked and tortured police officers and assaulted the capital with the aid of a number of government officials. The punishment must be thorough, definitive, and swift. They must be called out for what they did and who they are.

    Listen to the officers. They've been in actual warzones and many protests with armed/angry people. They've never witnessed something as violent, hateful, and deliberate as the Jan 6th attack.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-07-28 at 11:01 PM.

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  9. #4749
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    It's funny that this might actually get him laid, but not probably with the partner he had hoped!
    Prison rape is a movie meme. it doesn't happen like people think it does.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  10. #4750
    Blademaster Aloie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The GOP has already blocked any real immediate repercussions so might as go in unfiltered. That's if you believe trying to maintain a civil discourse. I personally do not think this is a situation that warrants any sort of political correctness. The participants were terrorists who sought to undermine the United States democratic process through violence and the threat of violence. They attacked and tortured police officers and assaulted the capital with the aid of a number of government officials. The punishment must be thorough, definitive, and swift. They must be called out for what they did and who they are.

    Listen to the officers. They've been in actual warzones and many protests with armed/angry people. They've never witnessed something as violent, hateful, and deliberate as the Jan 6th attack.
    Oh I fully agree with you regarding Jan 6th. Well said, honestly.

  11. #4751
    Trump loving, QAnon supporting ex-marine fled to Mexico, family says he loves America, as he runs to Mexico to flee charges of his taking part in the Insurrection on January 6th, as the family raises money on the Christian crowd funding site GiveSendGo. They are asking for $200,000 for his legal fees, but have gotten a grand total of $0 so far lol.

  12. #4752
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Trump loving, QAnon supporting ex-marine fled to Mexico, family says he loves America, as he runs to Mexico to flee charges of his taking part in the Insurrection on January 6th, as the family raises money on the Christian crowd funding site GiveSendGo. They are asking for $200,000 for his legal fees, but have gotten a grand total of $0 so far lol.
    We're not sending our best, we're not sending our brightest...

  13. #4753
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    We're not sending our best, we're not sending our brightest...
    And I always thought the drug dealers, rapists, and criminals coming to the US across the southern border was college students returning from Spring Break.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  14. #4754
    Not sure if this counts as irony, but it is funny in a way. GETTR is getting flooded with ISIS sympathizers posting anti-western propaganda plus other jihadi stuff. Honestly, even The Onion couldn't come up with this.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...BingNewsSearch

  15. #4755
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/02/polit...iot/index.html

    Yet another officer who responded to the January 6 attack has died from suicide. This just makes me want to punch that piece of shit who claimed 1/6 was like a normal tourist visit in the face even more.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  16. #4756
    Seems like this insanity from the US is infecting other places as well. We just had an arrest here in Australia of a man who had released a fabricated video that was meant to show the head of the Australian Federal Police calling for a military coup against the Australian government.

    The whole thing was laughably implausible and amateurish but we have qanon nutters here as well. Luckily no political party has embraced them and they remain very fringe.

  17. #4757
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/02/polit...iot/index.html

    Yet another officer who responded to the January 6 attack has died from suicide. This just makes me want to punch that piece of shit who claimed 1/6 was like a normal tourist visit in the face even more.
    WHAT. THE. FUCK. IS. GOING. ON. HERE.

    Just going to add more, but this is incredibly bad news, in a number of separate and very unnerving categories.

    This is the THIRD POLICE OFFICER TO COMMIT SUICIDE of those who were involved in the response to the capital insurrection terrorists.

    Here is the story regarding the second office who committed suicide.

    Why are police officers committing suicide?
    Why isn't this being covered much more thoroughly? (no, one front page article isn't enough).
    What in the holy fuck is going on here?
    Are these being investigated as potential homicides?

    This is so disturbing on a number of levels. One? Tragic, but it happens. Three? Fucking NO.

  18. #4758
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Not sure if this counts as irony, but it is funny in a way. GETTR is getting flooded with ISIS sympathizers posting anti-western propaganda plus other jihadi stuff. Honestly, even The Onion couldn't come up with this.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...BingNewsSearch
    Welp! It's their precious freedom of speech at work! One right-wing terror group hand-in-hand with the next.

  19. #4759
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Why are police officers committing suicide?
    I can't say for sure, but what I will say for sure is that when someone goes through a horrifying, traumatic event, and others (like the piece of shit congressman claiming it was a normal tourist visit) try to minimize the event or claim it didn't even happen, that doesn't help things.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  20. #4760
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus View Post
    I can't say for sure, but what I will say for sure is that when someone goes through a horrifying, traumatic event, and others (like the piece of shit congressman claiming it was a normal tourist visit) try to minimize the event or claim it didn't even happen, that doesn't help things.
    It also can't help that people have been posting "ACAB" everywhere the last year. Police officers already have the highest suicide rate of any profession.

    I'm 100% against police brutality, and 100% think that police should be held to a higher standard and punished accordingly, but personally, I think anyone who pushes the "ACAB" mentality is just as much a part of the fucking problem and should honestly get fucked. If you put hatred out there, you're gonna get hatred back.

    And yes, I'm fully aware that some of you reading this are a part of that.

    I've had both good and bad experiences with law enforcement in my life, and I can separate the two. Until we all start treating people like people, shit's not going to ever get better.


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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