Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[cubby]

I can't say for sure, but what I will say for sure is that when someone goes through a horrifying, traumatic event, and others (like the piece of shit congressman claiming it was a normal tourist visit) try to minimize the event or claim it didn't even happen, that doesn't help things.

Oh, no doubt. And the profession itself has one of the highest suicide rates already. But three? Nope - sorry, something seems fishy to me.

(and to be clear, what I'm questioning is whether there are extenuating circumstances for these suicides; not criticizing the police officers at all)

[Endus]

It also can't help that people have been posting "ACAB" everywhere the last year. Police officers already have the highest suicide rate of any profession.

I'm 100% against police brutality, and 100% think that police should be held to a higher standard and punished accordingly, but personally, I think anyone who pushes the "ACAB" mentality is just as much a part of the fucking problem and should honestly get fucked. If you put hatred out there, you're gonna get hatred back.

And yes, I'm fully aware that some of you reading this are a part of that.

I've had both good and bad experiences with law enforcement in my life, and I can separate the two. Until we all start treating people like people, shit's not going to ever get better.

Here's the root problem;

There's corruption in many (most) (all?) departments. Cases of abuse that got little punishment, or even rewarded. Rampant racism. And so on. That's just an objective truth at this point. Maybe some small department in the middle of nowhere can claim they're free and clear and back that up, but pretty much any big city in the USA? Not really. And that's endemic because it's predicated on a police culture that's trained into officers deliberately, from the beginning, and enough bad officers were involved that those bad assumptions have become training standards.

Now, I'm sure people can point to an officer and say "he's a good cop, though". But are they? They're part of that system. Their colleagues are abusing their authority, and getting away with it. Every moment they side with them and don't do everything they can to see those offending officers drummed out of the force and prosecuted criminally for their conduct, they're complicit in the abuse. It's like the Church leadership who knows Father X is fucking altar boys, so they move him to new parishes when scandals start piling up; I don't care if THEY aren't fucking children, they're complicit in protecting Father X and ensuring he can victimize more people. They are not innocents.

I don't expect some beat cop to be responsible for taking down the system, or something. I do expect them talk to their leadership, and if their leadership doesn't take action to remove an officer, to take their account to the press. Yes, it'll get them fired. No, I don't care. Anything short of that is complicity. Maybe it's because they're scared of backlash, maybe it's because they need the pay. They're still complicit.

This is the core of "one bad apple spoils the bunch". Once you find that one bad apple, you have to get rid of the rest of the apples. They're all contaminated. You don't give the rest a glance and say they "look fine" and put them in with new apples.

I'm not full-on ACAB, I'm not gonna spit on officers or some stupid shit. My cousin's a cop. But I'm also in Canada, where this isn't as extreme as it is in the USA (not perfect, don't @ me to crap on Canada out of nowhere people). I'm not even arguing all cops should be barred from ever serving again.

But I would support firing every single officer in any given department, getting new leadership established with an eye to aggressively combating these issues, and only then looking to re-hire, and giving ex-officers' records strong scrutiny before hiring them back. If you're worried about the interim period, do this at the training centers first, then stage officers into 3 or more groups by some random methodology, and give them specific times when their careers will be ending, say at 6 month or 1 year intervals. New PD in three years.

These Capitol officers are being shat on unfairly. By the people they're supposed to be protecting, which is egregious. It's abominable, and nothing about should be seen as defending it. There's a big whopping difference between attacking these men personally for their character and actions, when both were laudable, and acknowledging that policing in the USA in general has very deeply ingrained flaws and the only long-term solution may be to wipe the slate clean and start from square 1.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, no doubt. And the profession itself has one of the highest suicide rates already. But three? Nope - sorry, something seems fishy to me.

(and to be clear, what I'm questioning is whether there are extenuating circumstances for these suicides; not criticizing the police officers at all)

I'm suspecting they're getting death threats and such.

Frankly, we should treat that like we did the girl who encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he did. She was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Identify and track down the fuckers harassing these officers, and charge all of them with involuntary manslaughter if their conspiracy of harassment and abuse led to the officer's suicide.

Fuck 'em. There needs to be goddamned consequences for shit like this, or it's never gonna stop.

[PhaelixWW]

Here's the root problem...

I honestly don't give a single shit what you or anyone else thinks your justification is. You can hate the system without calling everyone in the system a bastard.

You are a part of the problem if you can't be bothered to separate the two.

"Hate begets hate; violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love... Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding. ...In fact, violence merely increases hate."
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

Now I'm no pacifist: I have zero problems with going after the bad ones. And like I said earlier, I'm perfectly fine with holding the rest of them to a higher standard, because there are plenty of them that are enablers of the kind of systemic problems that are being faced. But calling them all bastards unilaterally? All you're doing is just enabling the enablers. Congratulations.

[Masark]

This just makes me want to punch that piece of shit who claimed 1/6 was like a normal tourist visit in the face even more.

I recommend against punching them. They're probably unvaccinated and punching them requires getting entirely too close to them.

My personal suggestion would be to use a Bohemian earspoon, if only because it's the polearm with the most amusing name.

[Shadowferal]

Another police officer suicide....just hearing it now.

[zorkuus]

Another police officer suicide....just hearing it now.

PTSD combined with half of the county being crazy and not believing this event happened.... +some officers might also be receiving death threats from the "back the blue" magatards.

[Shadowferal]

Fourth police officer who responded to Jan. 6 attack dies by suicide

The news comes on the same day that MPD officials confirmed a third police officer death by suicide in the wake of the riot. Earlier on Monday, it was reported that Gunther Hashida was found dead in his home Thursday.

[Endus]

Fourth police officer who responded to Jan. 6 attack dies by suicide

The news comes on the same day that MPD officials confirmed a third police officer death by suicide in the wake of the riot. Earlier on Monday, it was reported that Gunther Hashida was found dead in his home Thursday.

What percentage does that amount to, now? This is insane.

[starlord]

Little known fact, Suicide is contagious.

[cubby]

Fourth police officer who responded to Jan. 6 attack dies by suicide

The news comes on the same day that MPD officials confirmed a third police officer death by suicide in the wake of the riot. Earlier on Monday, it was reported that Gunther Hashida was found dead in his home Thursday.

This is INSANE.

Either something really bad is going on and these "suicides" are actually homicides (which, frankly, seems at least far fetched, even for me) or we need to get social services over to each and every officer involved in the Terrorist Insurrection.

- - - Updated - - -

Little known fact, Suicide is contagious.

I did not know that. Whoa.

[Dontrike]

Little known fact, Suicide is contagious.

Suddenly the song Worthless from the Brave Little Toaster comes to mind.

[cubby]

What percentage does that amount to, now? This is insane.

Agreed. Beyond insane. They need to get ALL of those officers on leave and with counselors. NOW. I can't begin to imagine what they are going through.

[Endus]

Agreed. Beyond insane. They need to get ALL of those officers on leave and with counselors. NOW. I can't begin to imagine what they are going through.

We're gonna come back around to my favorite mantra, too.

Want the abuse of these officers to stop? There have to be consequences for the abusers. That means the shitheads in Congress lying about their actions. That means every chucklefuck who contributes to the campaign of harassment and death threats they're receiving.

And by "consequences", I don't mean a frowny face with your hands angrily placed firmly on your hips as you shake your head at them in disappointment. Fucking criminal chargers where possible, and civil liabilities where they aren't. Being a participant in this shit should result in your life being destroyed. Every goddamned one of them, at all levels of power. The First Amendment wasn't intended to protect against campaigns of abuse and death threats that push innocent people to suicide, and anyone trying to raise that as a defense need to be legally slapped down, hard, and held accountable.

That's the missing word here in 2021. Accountability. There is none. And there fucking needs to be.

[Belize]

PTSD combined with half of the county being crazy and not believing this event happened.... +some officers might also be receiving death threats from the "back the blue" magatards.

How many of those officers also supported/voted for Trump?

We have anecdotal stories of the officer who died from a heart attack that he frequently talked about agreeing with Trump on a number of issues. He can't be the only one.

Imagine the life shattering whiplash that is the politician you supported sicking his rabid terrorists on you, then having your whole party turn their backs on you. Republicans, of all groups, is one that values being "in" with everyone else in the group. Being ostracized can't be good for their mental health.

[cubby]

We're gonna come back around to my favorite mantra, too.

Want the abuse of these officers to stop? There have to be consequences for the abusers. That means the shitheads in Congress lying about their actions. That means every chucklefuck who contributes to the campaign of harassment and death threats they're receiving.

And by "consequences", I don't mean a frowny face with your hands angrily placed firmly on your hips as you shake your head at them in disappointment. Fucking criminal chargers where possible, and civil liabilities where they aren't. Being a participant in this shit should result in your life being destroyed. Every goddamned one of them, at all levels of power. The First Amendment wasn't intended to protect against campaigns of abuse and death threats that push innocent people to suicide, and anyone trying to raise that as a defense need to be legally slapped down, hard, and held accountable.

That's the missing word here in 2021. Accountability. There is none. And there fucking needs to be.

I could not agree more. And with our current GQP corrupted system of government, we never will. Those "members" of Congress that helped plan and facilitate the Terrorist Insurrection at the Capital will never see consequences.

I mean - Matt Gaetz is under criminal investigation for child sex trafficking and rape and drug use and he's one of the GQP's top fund raisers. Marge fucking Greene was elected on conspiracy theories that include Democrats running a global child rape and cannibal society, and she IS their top fund raiser.

We are squarely at the start of what Neal Stephenson called the Post Fact Era.

It's never been this bad, and it will only get worse.

[Bodakane]

I could not agree more. And with our current GQP corrupted system of government, we never will. Those "members" of Congress that helped plan and facilitate the Terrorist Insurrection at the Capital will never see consequences.

I mean - Matt Gaetz is under criminal investigation for child sex trafficking and rape and drug use and he's one of the GQP's top fund raisers. Marge fucking Greene was elected on conspiracy theories that include Democrats running a global child rape and cannibal society, and she IS their top fund raiser.

We are squarely at the start of what Neal Stephenson called the Post Fact Era.

It's never been this bad, and it will only get worse.

Biden could ensure justice happens. If he doesn't, frankly, that's an indictment of him.

[cubby]

Biden could ensure justice happens. If he doesn't, frankly, that's an indictment of him.

How?

/10-char

[Bodakane]

How?

/10-char

DoJ.

Simply put, if the evidence is there, the DoJ should go after him/them. If they don't go after him/them and the evidence is there, it will be because Biden is either stopping them from doing it or not pushing them to do it.

[cubby]

DoJ.

Simply put, if the evidence is there, the DoJ should go after him/them. If they don't go after him/them and the evidence is there, it will be because Biden is either stopping them from doing it or not pushing them to do it.

The DoJ is investigating the entire Insurrection. We really don't want the President directing the actions of the DoJ - it should be as independent as possible. We saw enough of that with Trump - and in fact are still seeing it.

The DoJ not going after Members of Congress has nothing to do with Biden, unless he directly tells them not to vis a vis AG Garland.

[Bodakane]

The DoJ is investigating the entire Insurrection. We really don't want the President directing the actions of the DoJ - it should be as independent as possible. We saw enough of that with Trump - and in fact are still seeing it.

The DoJ not going after Members of Congress has nothing to do with Biden, unless he directly tells them not to vis a vis AG Garland.

Whether we want the POTUS directing the actions of the DoJ or not, they do, especially on something this big. You know this.

As I said, if there's evidence to go after them, and Garland doesn't, it will be because Biden told him to back off or isn't telling him to go after them. Either way, its on Biden.