1. #4841
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    I can't think of anything that would offset a feverishly pro-slavery stance combined with ethnic cleansing, but ok.
    Most pre-Lincoln Presidents were pretty shitty on racial issues. He killed less people than LBJ, Nixon, Dubya and Trump. Eisenhower is still considered to be one of the best Presidents ever but his meddling in Iran had repercussions that exist to this day.

    So on a scale of racist assholes from Washington to Buchanan where would you place Jackson?

  2. #4842
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Most pre-Lincoln Presidents were pretty shitty on racial issues. He killed less people than LBJ, Nixon, Dubya and Trump. Eisenhower is still considered to be one of the best Presidents ever but his meddling in Iran had repercussions that exist to this day.

    So on a scale of racist assholes from Washington to Buchanan where would you place Jackson?
    To be completely honest, I'd put him at the bottom of the list. The entire purpose of displacing and ethnically cleansing the South was to make way for Plantations and even more crimes against humanity (slavery). If I'm not mistaken, removing the Native Americans to make way for more settlements was a pretty important part of Jackson's platform. Is being completely inept at the job worse than being a competent and hateful autocrat? Competency is probably worse in this case because it means you actually accomplish the things you set out to do, like genocide.

    I ask again, what could Jackson have possibly achieved during his presidency to offset these things? Maybe some historians don't view ethnic cleansing and slavery as that big of a deal, but I certainly do.
    Last edited by downnola; 2021-06-08 at 03:37 PM.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
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  3. #4843
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    To be completely honest, I'd put him at the bottom of the list. The entire purpose of displacing and ethnically cleansing the South was to make way for Plantations and even more crimes against humanity (slavery).

    I ask again, what could Jackson have possibly achieved during his presidency to offset these things? Maybe some historians don't view ethnic cleansing and slavery as that big of a deal, but I certainly do.
    It is a big deal. However even modern interpretations are still ranking him higher than I would thought reasonable. LBJ is probably a better president over all but he has way, way more blood on his hands.

  4. #4844
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...es/7583691002/

    First Senate report is out -

    "Anyone going armed needs to be mentally prepared to draw down on LEOs (law enforcement officers). Let them shoot first, but make sure they know what happens if they do," according to another post.
    I'm real glad Republicans decided to vote against investigating an event filled with people who were prepared to murder law enforcement officers.

    More than 140 police officers reported injuries, including an officer who is going to lose his eye, another who was stabbed with a metal fence stake, and one who suffered a heart attack after being attacked multiple times with a stun gun, according to the report.
    You know, pro-police people.

    The report does not refer to the attack as an insurrection, except when quoting witnesses.
    Hey, let's use their own words for it then, no? They call it an insurrection, treat it as such.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/...-act-feds-say/

    Now this is from the summer of 2020 during all the Floyd protests, but it fits with this thread better.

    The cop-killer, Steven Carrillo, was apparently a part of a militia group in CA connected with boogies. They'd planned a literal "war" against the police, including impersonating antifa and taking up arms if Trump invoked the Insurrection Act. And the non-arrested members destroyed evidence after Carrillo got pinched for killing cops and feds.

    Yeah, these aren't necessarily pro-insurrectionists, but an offshoot of the kind of dangerous anti-government extremism that underpins much of what the insurrectionists believe. It's just a slightly different flavor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...l-insurrection

    We have home security video of Mo Brooks wife being served the lawsuit. Doesn't show everything, but it appears the dude pulled up right behind her as she got home and served her on the driveway before taking off, and she was none to pleased. At most he may have entered the garage that is apparently just around the corner, but Brooks thinks this is "proof" that the dude trespassed inside his home and harassed his wife. Dude was there less than 20 seconds.

    What a bunch of delicate fuckin snowflakes. Show up and get served proper like a man (kek) if you don't want lawyers to have to resort to "ambushing" your wife to serve you.

  5. #4845
    still bothers me that they dont seem close to catching the pipe bomber.

    and worries me about what his background is if that is the case.

  6. #4846
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    still bothers me that they dont seem close to catching the pipe bomber.

    and worries me about what his background is if that is the case.
    I’m assuming the relevant institutions are working fairly covertly on catching these people, lest the criminals catch on that they’re being actively pursued.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #4847
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I’m assuming the relevant institutions are working fairly covertly on catching these people, lest the criminals catch on that they’re being actively pursued.
    wishful thinking. The bomb was basic but the point to draw assets away from the main attack was super coordinated. I saw the videos of the oathkeepers response teams outside the capital ready to go when the big man gave them the call. Not nabbing this guy is worrying, hes clearly highly motivated and will only get better at making devices.

  8. #4848
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I’m assuming the relevant institutions are working fairly covertly on catching these people, lest the criminals catch on that they’re being actively pursued.
    They are. FBI Director Chris Wray on Thursday suggested "serious charges" are still coming in the criminal investigation of the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol by supporters of former President Donald Trump.

    Investigations like this take time, regardless, because the FBI redefines thoroughness, even in mundane crimes. They build their case, request and execute search and arrest warrants, and then hand them off to the DoJ to prosecute.
    "This is a very ongoing investigation and there's a lot more to come," Wray said during an oversight hearing held by the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee. "I would expect to see more charges — some of them maybe more serious charges."

    Wray testified that the FBI considered the attack an act of "domestic terrorism." He said he understands why Democratic lawmakers have called the attack an "insurrection," but said it would not be appropriate for him to use that word because of the effect it could have on pending criminal cases.

    "In my role as FBI director, because that's a term that has legal meaning, I really have to be careful about using words like that," Wray said.
    Legally, this statement speaks volumes. Wray is specifically not commenting on something because of an ongoing investigation ("insurrection") and also specifically stating that the FBI is going after more serious crimes stemming from the Jan 6 event.

  9. #4849
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    To be completely honest, I'd put him at the bottom of the list. The entire purpose of displacing and ethnically cleansing the South was to make way for Plantations and even more crimes against humanity (slavery). If I'm not mistaken, removing the Native Americans to make way for more settlements was a pretty important part of Jackson's platform. Is being completely inept at the job worse than being a competent and hateful autocrat? Competency is probably worse in this case because it means you actually accomplish the things you set out to do, like genocide.

    I ask again, what could Jackson have possibly achieved during his presidency to offset these things? Maybe some historians don't view ethnic cleansing and slavery as that big of a deal, but I certainly do.
    Hell, Lincoln didn't do anything to stop the native American ethnic cleansing either, in fact, many policies just continued that cause. Don't think you'll find many Native American historians who view Lincoln very highly...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    wishful thinking. The bomb was basic but the point to draw assets away from the main attack was super coordinated. I saw the videos of the oathkeepers response teams outside the capital ready to go when the big man gave them the call. Not nabbing this guy is worrying, hes clearly highly motivated and will only get better at making devices.
    At the time I watched an interview of an ex FBI agent and he was guaranteeing this guy would be caught, I was like there is no way to guarantee that, but that's what he were doing. 5 months later....

  10. #4850
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...es/7583691002/

    First Senate report is out -
    "Anyone going armed needs to be mentally prepared to draw down on LEOs (law enforcement officers). Let them shoot first, but make sure they know what happens if they do," according to another post.
    I'm real glad Republicans decided to vote against investigating an event filled with people who were prepared to murder law enforcement officers.
    More than 140 police officers reported injuries, including an officer who is going to lose his eye, another who was stabbed with a metal fence stake, and one who suffered a heart attack after being attacked multiple times with a stun gun, according to the report.
    You know, pro-police people.
    The report does not refer to the attack as an insurrection, except when quoting witnesses.
    Hey, let's use their own words for it then, no? They call it an insurrection, treat it as such.
    Probably the biggest embarrassment capitulating the fundamental problems with the United States' political structure - we can't even vote to investigate an insurrection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/...-act-feds-say/

    Now this is from the summer of 2020 during all the Floyd protests, but it fits with this thread better.

    The cop-killer, Steven Carrillo, was apparently a part of a militia group in CA connected with boogies. They'd planned a literal "war" against the police, including impersonating antifa and taking up arms if Trump invoked the Insurrection Act. And the non-arrested members destroyed evidence after Carrillo got pinched for killing cops and feds.

    Yeah, these aren't necessarily pro-insurrectionists, but an offshoot of the kind of dangerous anti-government extremism that underpins much of what the insurrectionists believe. It's just a slightly different flavor.
    Looks like the DoJ is getting to those guys:
    DOJ charges six connected to pro-Trump rallies and right-wing revolutionary group in new Capitol riot conspiracy case
    Six men from California who allegedly organized themselves as a "DC Brigade," including one man who spoke at a right-wing rally in Washington, DC, the day before the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, face new conspiracy charges from the Justice Department, according to court documents made public on Thursday.

    The case adds to a pile of prosecutions that investigators have pursued alleging that groups of American extremists from far-right organizations like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers worked together to plan the attack on Congress' certification of the presidential vote.
    We'll see where it goes.

  11. #4851
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    We'll see where it goes.
    My favorite part is that one of the six is an ex-police chief.

  12. #4852
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Probably the biggest embarrassment capitulating the fundamental problems with the United States' political structure - we can't even vote to investigate an insurrection.
    Encapsulating maybe? Capitulate means to surrender.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  13. #4853
    I like "high-lighting" myself.

  14. #4854
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Are we still pretending that it's the same Democratic party? You know, the one that doesn't wave the Confederate flags at events. The one that doesn't bring Nazi flags to marches. The one without members who also count their membership in the KKK?

    Or are we still ahistorically pretending that the Southern Strategy doesn't exist because it's the only way to justify your hate and ignorance? Those are all uniquely Republican features nowadays, bucko. Please do try to keep up with the recent history of the past 50 or so years.
    All the GQP has is lies and trolling and revising history. Sadly it is working.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    At the moment you are not winning at all . The woke politics make America the laughing stock of the world .Biden has not implemented a single progressive policy and never will. Defund the police backfired with a crimespike a loss of experienced cops all the while the lower classes suffer from said crimewave. Bill Maher is correct you americans are a silly people.

    The next few years are going to be entertaining to see how you will fuck up your country even more.
    The US is very likely going to fall within a few years because of people like you. Stop supporting GQP terrorists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    So you have a border crisis , inflation on the same level as 2008, the corona crisis still not under control and it is escalating in NY (hello Cuomo) and Calafornia , the Fauci scandal , a completely paralyzed government thats seems to get nothing done and a crime wave because you defunded the police. All this in 5 months and you are saying America is not the laughingstock of the world?

    And now suddenly you want to investigate the riots?It seems that you need a lighting rod! Just let the FBI handle it. And since they are not charging Trump for anything i doubt you get anything from this.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You people dont seem to get over Trump are you? Smile my friend you are in the spotlight and the rest of the world is waiting for the next bit of insanity from woke america.

    - - - Updated - - -



    How quickly you throw your own under bus. Will not be long before liberals and wokist will start a political civil war.
    You people are straight up crazy. Almost every major issue right now in the US exists due to Trump and GQP fuckery.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    There is no Fauci scandal, that's a lie being pushed by right-wing media.

    They've wanted to investigate the Capitol riot since the first fucking day.

    So, what does it say about someone who thinks that those who oppose racists and fascists are the scum of the planet?
    Fauci is getting the Hillary treatment buttery males and all. It is sad. They have no new material at all they just recycle tired old lines.

  15. #4855
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    All the GQP has is lies and trolling and revising history. Sadly it is working.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The US is very likely going to fall within a few years because of people like you. Stop supporting GQP terrorists.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You people are straight up crazy. Almost every major issue right now in the US exists due to Trump and GQP fuckery.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Fauci is getting the Hillary treatment buttery males and all. It is sad. They have no new material at all they just recycle tired old lines.
    People keep telling me to read his e-mails, because it's a treasure trove of information.

    Nah, it's a bureaucrat talking about his workday, and nothing in there is even slightly scandalous. Every gotcha is something we literally knew at the time, because he fucking told us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  16. #4856
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    In case anyone needed a reminder: still my favorite trump speech.
    I read about it when it happened but this is my first time seeing it. Holy shit. It is god damn scary this man still has the support of at least 30% of the US. We are fucked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This comment alone is so telling of your mindset.

    You see this as being a conflict between "sides", when it flatly isn't. Or at least, not anywhere close to as few as two.

    You think that anyone on your "side" should get your unwavering, unthinking support, no matter what they say or believe, just for being on your "side"; that's the root of why you're calling people out for condemning Maher, even though he's on their "side". This, of course, is just blind cultism; you're accusing people of not being blind, ignorant cultists, but instead thinking for themselves. That you think that's a negative is, wow, talk about the quiet part out loud.
    There is an active campaign online to cause divides in the left and this guy is likely part of it. I really wish forums and social media was more responsive to dealing with stuff like this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    still bothers me that they dont seem close to catching the pipe bomber.

    and worries me about what his background is if that is the case.
    The DOJ is actively involved in a coverup of 1/6.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I’m assuming the relevant institutions are working fairly covertly on catching these people, lest the criminals catch on that they’re being actively pursued.
    I'm sorry what? They know they are being "investigated". We need to demand more from the FBI and the DOJ. They are NOT doing their jobs. They are protecting traitors and seditionists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    They are. FBI Director Chris Wray on Thursday suggested "serious charges" are still coming in the criminal investigation of the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol by supporters of former President Donald Trump.

    Investigations like this take time, regardless, because the FBI redefines thoroughness, even in mundane crimes. They build their case, request and execute search and arrest warrants, and then hand them off to the DoJ to prosecute.


    Legally, this statement speaks volumes. Wray is specifically not commenting on something because of an ongoing investigation ("insurrection") and also specifically stating that the FBI is going after more serious crimes stemming from the Jan 6 event.
    NO.

    ENOUGH.

    Look Mueller's investigation into Russian collusion while narrow in scope did result in findings that Trump committed 10 acts of obstruction of justice and a Senate bipartisan committee came to the same conclusion. In the report Mueller said Trump can't be indicted because the DOJ has a policy of not indicting sitting presidents. We have a completed investigation and evidence to support 10 counts of obstruction of justice and on January 20th when Trump was no longer president? NOTHING. Absolutely fucking NOTHING. No charges. No questioning. NOTHING. And no don't give me bullshit about how the DOJ didn't have an AG at the time. They have the authorization to make arrests regardless and file charges. This is dereliction of duty at best.

    We also have the issue of Biden/Garland's DOJ refusing to release the full unredacted Barr memo where he lied about the findings of the report not to mention the fact it has come to light Democrats like Schiff were being spied on by the DOJ even as recently as 2 days ago.

    The federal government is compromised and they are protecting the GQP. The DOJ is not doing its job at all whatsoever. They are breaking the law right now as we speak. I don't believe Biden himself is compromised but he is clearly being led astray by his administration and Garland is sure as hell not doing his job.

    This has to stop or the US will most assuredly fall. We need GQP leadership involved in all of this arrested. Arresting people and an existing investigation are not mutually exclusive. We need to start demanding more from the DOJ than platitudes. We need to start pressuring Biden to do his fucking job. And yes the DOJ is 100% under direct purview of the executive branch and POTUS for this reason alone. The DOJ isn't doing its job and it is Biden's job to resolve it. If he doesn't I will have zero issue calling for his impeachment. I am fucking done with all of this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Probably the biggest embarrassment capitulating the fundamental problems with the United States' political structure - we can't even vote to investigate an insurrection.



    Looks like the DoJ is getting to those guys:
    DOJ charges six connected to pro-Trump rallies and right-wing revolutionary group in new Capitol riot conspiracy case


    We'll see where it goes.
    Sorry we have numerous people in GQP leadership dead to rights on many crimes.

    It is insane they are not being arrested especially since they are actively involved in covering up 1/6 and involved in the investigation themselves. 2020 was the last legitimate election this nation will see. Manchin is not going to vote to remove the filibuster and he is now actively working against HR1.

    The GQP will not face any consequences and we are going to suffer for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    People keep telling me to read his e-mails, because it's a treasure trove of information.

    Nah, it's a bureaucrat talking about his workday, and nothing in there is even slightly scandalous. Every gotcha is something we literally knew at the time, because he fucking told us.
    Accusations do not need to have truth behind them. We have literal criminals and traitors actively fucking over this country and they are getting away with it while people like Fauci are being attacked and demonized.

  17. #4857
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Encapsulating maybe? Capitulate means to surrender.
    Yes...that would be the word I meant to type. How the hell capitulate got there is beyond me...well, apparently it's actually NOT beyond me. lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Sorry we have numerous people in GQP leadership dead to rights on many crimes.

    It is insane they are not being arrested especially since they are actively involved in covering up 1/6 and involved in the investigation themselves. 2020 was the last legitimate election this nation will see. Manchin is not going to vote to remove the filibuster and he is now actively working against HR1.

    The GQP will not face any consequences and we are going to suffer for it.
    Knowing something and being able to prove it in an arrest or search warrant are two different things. Legally speaking, taking their time and building an air tight case is key to making those responsible pay. It's frustrating at times, even to me, how slow our law enforcement and judicial system work. And I also realize that I could be wrong - that the FBI/DOJ won't be going after all those responsible.

    Manchin might surprise you.

    You might be right about the 2020 election.

  18. #4858
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Manchin might surprise you.
    I genuinely hope so, as it stands, it looks as though he accepted donation in exchange for throwing us under the bus. If he actually does do this, what does he hope to gain?

    If the Republicans get away with what they are doing, they won't reward him for it, they will remove him the moment they get a chance though screwing around with their states laws like they are trying in Georgia and Texas. If they changed party, he will be primaried as RINO and replaced quickly. And even if stays in the party and they don't change the rules yet, next election I would fully expect him to be in a primary against someone pissed enough to publicly call him out for this repeatedly to a base that supports this in a state with bipartisan support for these policies and point out how he got donations to do it.

    Unless he is just planning on retiring and giving the nation a giant middle finger on his way out the door, what would be the long term game plan for him here?
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  19. #4859
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I genuinely hope so, as it stands, it looks as though he accepted donation in exchange for throwing us under the bus. If he actually does do this, what does he hope to gain?

    If the Republicans get away with what they are doing, they won't reward him for it, they will remove him the moment they get a chance though screwing around with their states laws like they are trying in Georgia and Texas. If they changed party, he will be primaried as RINO and replaced quickly. And even if stays in the party and they don't change the rules yet, next election I would fully expect him to be in a primary against someone pissed enough to publicly call him out for this repeatedly to a base that supports this in a state with bipartisan support for these policies and point out how he got donations to do it.

    Unless he is just planning on retiring and giving the nation a giant middle finger on his way out the door, what would be the long term game plan for him here?
    The untimely donation certainly doesn't look good, but I question the relation. I have a small glimmer of hope that Manchin is playing both sides in order to both keep his seat (which we need) and to help the Biden administration as much as possible. We'll see, of course.

    Changing party is a concern as Manchin rides the line pretty hard. I agree though, that if he did, he would be primaried out - which is probably why he hasn't.

    He might be planning to retire - a lot of middle-road GOP/Dems have retired and/or indicated they will be doing so.

  20. #4860
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The untimely donation certainly doesn't look good, but I question the relation. I have a small glimmer of hope that Manchin is playing both sides in order to both keep his seat (which we need) and to help the Biden administration as much as possible. We'll see, of course.

    Changing party is a concern as Manchin rides the line pretty hard. I agree though, that if he did, he would be primaried out - which is probably why he hasn't.

    He might be planning to retire - a lot of middle-road GOP/Dems have retired and/or indicated they will be doing so.
    I hope he is playing both sides and plans to do the right thing anyways. Because the alternative is him retiring and this being him flipping the nation the bird and telling us to get fucked on his way out the door and basically doing what he can to burn the place down on his way out, potentially because he knows either the Republicans or the "Liberals" are going to get power soon and he would rather the Republicans get it and continue to do damage than ever risk having the libs get a shot at governance.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
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