1. #6341
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Capital is more important hen people strictly speaking. Obviously there is a scale based on numbers involved but more lives are lost damaging infrastructure long term then singular acts against individuals.
    More speculative nonsense you can’t back up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venara
    Half this forum would be permanently banned if we did everything some of our users regularly demand or otherwise expect us to do.
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  2. #6342
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Capital is more important hen people strictly speaking. Obviously there is a scale based on numbers involved but more lives are lost damaging infrastructure long term then singular acts against individuals.
    The fuck is this dystopian-ass take? I'm not going to condone wanton destruction of property but buildings can be rebuilt and repaired, if a person is murdered they're kind of murdered forever. Also this flippant framing of people being shot/beaten/choked to death by police as 'singular acts against individuals' is fucking appalling in of itself and very deliberately ignores the pattern of behavior of police brutality in this country.

  3. #6343
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Capital is more important hen people strictly speaking. Obviously there is a scale based on numbers involved but more lives are lost damaging infrastructure long term then singular acts against individuals.
    If you wrote this shit into a dystopian novel as the screed of the moustache-twirling villain of the piece, people would criticise it for being too cartoonishly evil to be plausibly believed as something someone would actually say.


  4. #6344
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    It would be a stretch to even call rioting "left wing," given the disorganized nature of protest riots and the fact that many of those participating may not even be politically inclined, rather simply acting out in response to the systemic violence imposed upon their community and a lack of meaningful reform, or simply lone actors taking advantage of an opportunity to engage in crime.

    Granted, a true leftist is not going to put much weight on damage done to private property, so from a truly leftist perspective it's "not that big a deal" to burn down a fucking insured national chain pizza restaurant. But that surely doesn't extend to the fucking Neoliberal Democrats who are as much beholden to capital as the Republicans are.

  5. #6345
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Capital is more important hen people strictly speaking. Obviously there is a scale based on numbers involved but more lives are lost damaging infrastructure long term then singular acts against individuals.
    Holy.

    Shit.

    Well, at least we understand the fundamental divide between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives value capital above all else and don't even feel bad admitting it. There's nothing I can say that could elucidate you or any other conservative on why this is a horrible take, so I'll just let people read it for themselves.
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  6. #6346
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Holy.

    Shit.

    Well, at least we understand the fundamental divide between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives value capital above all else and don't even feel bad admitting it. There's nothing I can say that could elucidate you or any other conservative on why this is a horrible take, so I'll just let people read it for themselves.
    It's the reality of the world. You can screech it isn't fair,that is isn't right but reality doesn't flinch. It's why everyone accepts some nations have a death every five minutes from poverty.

    Wealth drives the world.

  7. #6347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    It's the reality of the world. You can screech it isn't fair,that is isn't right but reality doesn't flinch. It's why everyone accepts some nations have a death every five minutes from poverty.

    Wealth drives the world.
    There are numerous organizations who's reason for existence is combating poverty and other issues related to it. So that "everyone" comment is pulling some real weight. And the "reality" of the situation is that none of this is a universal law; it is dictated by human actions. We could, as a people, just decide that money is worthless tomorrow and that would be the new "reality".

  8. #6348
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Capital is more important hen people strictly speaking.
    No, it isn't, you just can't actually back up your assertion that there's a parity of political violence across the spectrum and are trying to make burning down a Target to be a more serious problem than extrajudicial violence motivated by a desire to exterminate minority groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #6349
    High Overlord Zinstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    It's the reality of the world. You can screech it isn't fair,that is isn't right but reality doesn't flinch. It's why everyone accepts some nations have a death every five minutes from poverty.

    Wealth drives the world.
    ..................just because "wealth drives the world" doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to change that or at the very least avoid purposely treat our fellow man with disdain like they are trash on the side of the road to be disposed of.... which is what your implying with your takes.

    I'm not saying we are able to save everyone... sadly we can't but at the very least we should do our best to do so as we are all on this planet together and have our failure of saving someone be due to factors outside of our control (ie due to their own actions and/or due to not having the ability to do so). Purposely devaluing our fellow humans without a second thought is what most people would consider morally reprehensible.
    Last edited by Zinstorm; 2023-02-27 at 01:54 AM.

  10. #6350
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    No, it isn't, you just can't actually back up your assertion that there's a parity of political violence across the spectrum and are trying to make burning down a Target to be a more serious problem than extrajudicial violence motivated by a desire to exterminate minority groups.
    But what about if I become rich?

    I want to be a terrible person too without consequence.

    -Temtin and his ilk
    Quote Originally Posted by Venara
    Half this forum would be permanently banned if we did everything some of our users regularly demand or otherwise expect us to do.
    Actual blue mod response on doing what they volunteered to do. No wonder this place is infested.

  11. #6351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    It's the reality of the world. You can screech it isn't fair,that is isn't right but reality doesn't flinch. It's why everyone accepts some nations have a death every five minutes from poverty.

    Wealth drives the world.
    "Socialism is dangerous because it kills people and causes bread lines."

    "Capital is more important than people. People should just accept that everyone dying is a feature of the system and that hunger is inevitable."

    Man, I'm starting to wonder when capitalists will have their heads so far up their own asses about capitalism that they'll start to realize the talking points about socialism being bad have always applied to capitalism far more than socialism. Perhaps it's time we stop listening to capitalists when they tell us that capitalism is the only way, and start looking at policies that protect people instead of policies that protect wealth.

    Here's a random thought for you. If it's wealth that drives the world, which came first, people or capital? People, obviously. You could potentially argue that the idea of property is one of the earliest concepts humans came up with, but property is not capital. And people had to exist before property became a concept. People existed before capital became a concept. If people stop existing, capital stops existing. If a nuclear war wipes out 95% of the human population, capital will be worthless and we'll be thrust back into an age of bartering.

    It's obvious how divorced from reality you are that you think capital is more important than people, and I doubt just my little blurb will convince you otherwise. But it's so hilariously easy to argue against you that I just couldn't help myself.

    And one final thought, hilarious how you and other conservatives worship wealth, but the moment it's used to further left wing ideology, you villainize capital ownership as some kind of evil thing. The "Coastal elites" line gets trotted out like some kind of prize pony every time a ton of people agree with a rich person espousing and pushing a left wing political opinion.
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  12. #6352
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    It's the reality of the world. You can screech it isn't fair,that is isn't right but reality doesn't flinch. It's why everyone accepts some nations have a death every five minutes from poverty.

    Wealth drives the world.
    This is not the natural inclination of the world, it's the world you and your ilk (or more likely your masters) choose to build. The systems of oppression to keep people passive and ignorant will collapse in on themselves in time and that's why the right is growing more and more desperate.

  13. #6353
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    "Socialism is dangerous because it kills people and causes bread lines."

    "Capital is more important than people. People should just accept that everyone dying is a feature of the system and that hunger is inevitable."

    Man, I'm starting to wonder when capitalists will have their heads so far up their own asses about capitalism that they'll start to realize the talking points about socialism being bad have always applied to capitalism far more than socialism. Perhaps it's time we stop listening to capitalists when they tell us that capitalism is the only way, and start looking at policies that protect people instead of policies that protect wealth.

    Here's a random thought for you. If it's wealth that drives the world, which came first, people or capital? People, obviously. You could potentially argue that the idea of property is one of the earliest concepts humans came up with, but property is not capital. And people had to exist before property became a concept. People existed before capital became a concept. If people stop existing, capital stops existing. If a nuclear war wipes out 95% of the human population, capital will be worthless and we'll be thrust back into an age of bartering.

    It's obvious how divorced from reality you are that you think capital is more important than people, and I doubt just my little blurb will convince you otherwise. But it's so hilariously easy to argue against you that I just couldn't help myself.

    And one final thought, hilarious how you and other conservatives worship wealth, but the moment it's used to further left wing ideology, you villainize capital ownership as some kind of evil thing. The "Coastal elites" line gets trotted out like some kind of prize pony every time a ton of people agree with a rich person espousing and pushing a left wing political opinion.
    I think any economic system in a pure form isn't sustainable until we reach a point that resource scarcity doesn't exist myself but I get the point you are trying to make.

    Capital isn't worth more than people by default either I'm not sure where you got that either. I forget the exact math and I'm sure its changed with inflation since it was taught to me but the average person is worth roughly 1.2 million.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    This is not the natural inclination of the world, it's the world you and your ilk (or more likely your masters) choose to build. The systems of oppression to keep people passive and ignorant will collapse in on themselves in time and that's why the right is growing more and more desperate.
    Have they ever...? I don't think you have a strong grasp on humans or even primates if you believe that... as nice as it would be if it was true.

  14. #6354
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    I think any economic system in a pure form isn't sustainable until we reach a point that resource scarcity doesn't exist myself but I get the point you are trying to make.
    There's no such thing as a "pure form" of any economic system. It's a fiction invented by capitalists to try and deflect away from challenges to the capitalist model. It's fundamentally predicated on the idea that there's some kind of spectrum between the two, which isn't even accurate, as both models are clouds, not lines, and they're directly antithetical, as you literally cannot have a socialist system based on collective ownership and a capitalist system based on private ownership (of the means of production in both cases, before some crank pulls some bullshit) simultaneously. You can have a capitalist system which is regulated to oblige some social support systems, but that's not about the ownership of the means of production, it's bread and circuses used to keep the masses compliant while more blood is squeezed out of that stone. Even shared ownership systems like credit unions are variations on a fundamentally capitalist framing; they approximate socialism, but only within a capitalist context.

    You're deflecting with a fictional straw man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    Have they ever...? I don't think you have a strong grasp on humans or even primates if you believe that... as nice as it would be if it was true.
    The concept of "empathy" evolved in our evolutionary line way back before humankind was a concept. Which is why social monkeys and apes today show empathy and altruistic behaviours, too; because that instinct evolved way before our lineages split.

    You're utterly wrong about this, and you're just demonstrating that your position is based on misinformed misanthropy.

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  15. #6355
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    "Socialism is dangerous because it kills people and causes bread lines."

    "Capital is more important than people. People should just accept that everyone dying is a feature of the system and that hunger is inevitable."

    Man, I'm starting to wonder when capitalists will have their heads so far up their own asses about capitalism that they'll start to realize the talking points about socialism being bad have always applied to capitalism far more than socialism. Perhaps it's time we stop listening to capitalists when they tell us that capitalism is the only way, and start looking at policies that protect people instead of policies that protect wealth.

    Here's a random thought for you. If it's wealth that drives the world, which came first, people or capital? People, obviously. You could potentially argue that the idea of property is one of the earliest concepts humans came up with, but property is not capital. And people had to exist before property became a concept. People existed before capital became a concept. If people stop existing, capital stops existing. If a nuclear war wipes out 95% of the human population, capital will be worthless and we'll be thrust back into an age of bartering.

    It's obvious how divorced from reality you are that you think capital is more important than people, and I doubt just my little blurb will convince you otherwise. But it's so hilariously easy to argue against you that I just couldn't help myself.

    And one final thought, hilarious how you and other conservatives worship wealth, but the moment it's used to further left wing ideology, you villainize capital ownership as some kind of evil thing. The "Coastal elites" line gets trotted out like some kind of prize pony every time a ton of people agree with a rich person espousing and pushing a left wing political opinion.
    Funny thing is if you look at actual history, uncontrolled capitalism back in the late 1920s is what caused those bread lines and massive poverty. It is what caused The Great Depression. An economy without any regulatory oversight is what caused the burning of the Cuyahoga River. It is what caused Niagara Falls to be massively polluted for decades. It is what caused the skylines of many Midwest cities to literally be hazardous to breath due to all the pollution being thrown in the air by coal plants and other industries.

  16. #6356
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Funny thing is if you look at actual history, uncontrolled capitalism back in the late 1920s is what caused those bread lines and massive poverty. It is what caused The Great Depression. An economy without any regulatory oversight is what caused the burning of the Cuyahoga River. It is what caused Niagara Falls to be massively polluted for decades. It is what caused the skylines of many Midwest cities to literally be hazardous to breath due to all the pollution being thrown in the air by coal plants and other industries.
    As they say, if you ask a socialist what they hate about capitalism, they'll give you a detailed and itemized list with sources. If you ask a capitalist what they hate about socialism, they'll describe capitalism to you.


  17. #6357
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As they say, if you ask a socialist what they hate about capitalism, they'll give you a detailed and itemized list with sources. If you ask a capitalist what they hate about socialism, they'll describe capitalism to you.
    It's like all those pictures people post of "THIS IS WHAT SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM LOOKS LIKE" and most of the time it's a fuckin US city, next to "THIS IS WHAT CAPITALISM LOOKS LIKE" and it's some new building in Cuba or something fuckin rofl.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...itol-rcna51157



    They got him, they finally got Sedition Panda.

    The FBI identified Rumson as the man in the panda head because he wore it on and off during the storming of the Capitol and he was caught on video and in photos with his face in full view, an FBI special agent said in an affidavit supporting his arrest.
    Protip: If you wear something to cover your face during the commission of a crime, do not remove your face covering. Especially if you know you are in a location that is extensively monitored, and doubly so if there are dozens of people all around you livestreaming and otherwise recording their involvement in the commission of crimes as well.

  18. #6358
    The Lightbringer
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    New Footage from Jan 6th is being trickled out by right wing sources, so it looks like Tucker's started dishing out the stuff he got from MacCarthy to his buddies.

    This is the only thing I've seen -so- far, though if everything else they have is just as or less damning then this then I don't think there's much to worry about.

  19. #6359
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    New Footage from Jan 6th is being trickled out by right wing sources, so it looks like Tucker's started dishing out the stuff he got from MacCarthy to his buddies.

    This is the only thing I've seen -so- far, though if everything else they have is just as or less damning then this then I don't think there's much to worry about.
    "Man attempting to bypass police and enter restricted area is denied entry."

    This, as with Ashley Babbit has big -

    "Why can't you just listen to and obey law enforcement?" vibes.

    fuck that loser, lol. I kinda really hope he broke something. If this is just gonna be Carlson trying to make cops look bad then he's playing to the wrong fuckin crowd lol.

  20. #6360
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "Man attempting to bypass police and enter restricted area is denied entry."

    This, as with Ashley Babbit has big -

    "Why can't you just listen to and obey law enforcement?" vibes.

    fuck that loser, lol. I kinda really hope he broke something. If this is just gonna be Carlson trying to make cops look bad then he's playing to the wrong fuckin crowd lol.
    Yeah people much. ACAB and all that but that dude fucked around and found out. Though from the footage it doesn't look like he was pushed so much as one of the police attempted to grab him and he just decided to launch himself off the banister.

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