Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Kokolums]

Q: What is the point of this thread?
A: To discuss ways to prevent / avoid insurrection or rebellion in the US.

So let's begin with the discussion.

What is the best way to prevent insurrection and rebellion in the US? Or is it too late? Or have some elected officials already crossed over into insurrection and rebellion?

Mod Edit: Due to recent events, this thread will be used for discussing what occurred on January 6th at the US Capitol.
The OP and title have been edited to reflect this.

[postman1782]

I see that these terms are now accepted by the politics forum. So I feel safe in starting a thread to discuss this issues. I have been mocked repeatedly on this forum for warning this may come, but now it is clear everyone agrees I was correct and these terms are no longer taboo here.

This topics are synonyms for a term that seems to ban me, and now have been fulled endorsed and backed by Endus:




So let's begin with the discussion.

What is the best way to prevent insurrection and rebellion in the US? Or is it too late? Or have some elected officials already crossed over into insurrection and rebellion?

Oh, you think Trump is still going to win with January 6th don't you?

[Kokolums]

Saying the answer out loud would get me permabanned from here.

We need to have the conversation. We cannot let an insurrection / rebellion happen. There must be a way to avert it. Admittedly it is a discussion a wanted 2-3 years ago. But maybe there is something we can come up, some way to avert it. Better to try than not do anything. I'd rather risk getting banned again than let something like that happen and not do what I can to help prevent it.

But Endus is now on board, so I think I won't get banned this time.

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Oh, you think Trump is still going to win with January 6th don't you?

Lying about me is not part of the discussion here. Thank you.

[postman1782]

We need to have the conversation. We cannot let an insurrection / rebellion happen. There must be a way to avert it. Admittedly it is a discussion a wanted 2-3 years ago. But maybe there is something we can come up, some way to avert it. Better to try than not do anything. I'd rather risk getting banned again than let something like that happen and not do what I can to help prevent it.

But Endus is now on board, so I think I won't get banned this time.

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Lying about me is not part of the discussion here. Thank you.

But I am not lying about you, you are trying to push something that will not happen.

[Kokolums]

But I am not lying about you, you are trying to push something that will not happen.

In no way am I for insurrection or rebellion. Stop lying.

[postman1782]

In no way am I for insurrection or rebellion. Stop lying.

Funny, you sure have been pushing it for a long time based on your posting history.

[Kokolums]

Funny, you sure have been pushing it for a long time based on your posting history.

Your reading comprehension being horrible does not mean I am for insurrection or rebellion. Did you read the first post? I specifically am talking about how to PREVENT it in this thread. Stop lying.

[postman1782]

Your reading comprehension being horrible does not mean I am for insurrection or rebellion. Did you read the first post? I specifically am talking about how to PREVENT it in this thread. Stop lying.

Only way to prevent it, is to teach conservatives, like you, that you are wrong.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I mean, widespread insurrection and open rebellion aren't something I can see happening in any near future. If the alt-right (of which Trump is a symptom, not the other way around) continues to grow more and more deranged, unhinged, and gullible to fake propaganda, then I can see some of them taking up arms in tiny cells, but never large enough to be anything more than a footnote in history.

Here's a few reasons why widespread rebellion was a thing of the past but does not seem viable today. The US is a massive nation of 300 million people. In the past, the US was a far smaller country. Both the revolutionary war and the civil war happened in a far smaller country at the time, both in land mass and in terms of population. While this may not seem to make sense entirely as a reason, it rolls in with another. The information age. We live in an age when information exists for everyone to access it. In the past, news took days or even weeks to reach every corner of the country. On top of that, we have media and a large population of the US who will likely never support open rebellion, so they vehemently shame people who do seek it. When some is shamed by basically everyone around them for advocating such things, they begin to question why they even support it. If EVERYONE hates them then they are alone, isolated. At least most normal people would hate to be in that situation.

And last but most important, we live in an age of plenty. People may be upset about the current state of politics, they may spew hate and bile on the internet about it, but most of these people are never willing to give up a comfy life where they have food and entertainment to keep them busy. In the past, food was much more scarce, and people did not have games, television, etc to keep them occupied. So if you're both hungry and bored, you can fester desires to improve your station by overthrowing the current power structure.

The above is traditionally how open rebellions have begun in the past. Some lesser nobility questions the current ruling powers, and gathers a following of peasantry who are both hungry and bored. They promise both stability in life as well as fulfillment to their boredom, so this peasantry forms a rebellion. That is the biggest block to open rebellion currently: food. Make food more scarce, make resources harder to get or far more expensive and you might see unrest. But as long as I can go go the grocery store and buy a week's worth of sustenance for $40 you won't see any desire to rebel. People are not willing to forfeit their lives as long as they are fed and entertained.

[No Kings Voter]

Only way to prevent it, is to teach conservatives, like you, that you are wrong.

To quote some random rural American. "You can't fix stupid."

Remember the Mueller Report, Putin is pushing US Civil War conspiracies. It attracts the same people that fell for 5G Conspiracies, and end up blowing themselves up.

[Masark]

To quote some random rural American. "You can't fix stupid."

Sure you can. You just need a big enough hammer, metaphorical or literal.

[Xeones]

I can't figure out what the goal of this thread is.

[Kokolums]

I mean, widespread insurrection and open rebellion aren't something I can see happening in any near future. If the alt-right (of which Trump is a symptom, not the other way around) continues to grow more and more deranged, unhinged, and gullible to fake propaganda, then I can see some of them taking up arms in tiny cells, but never large enough to be anything more than a footnote in history.

Here's a few reasons why widespread rebellion was a thing of the past but does not seem viable today.

I would argue all insurrections and rebellions have the same root cause: loss of trust. Once a large enough percentage of the people no longer trust the system, it is inevitable. I think everyone actually agrees with this.

When there was rioting and looting this summer, the response by leadership in this nation was to show the protestors complete and total respect, to try to listen and understand them, to have the police even kneel in response, for corporations to embrace what they are angry about and say they are being listened to, etc. The entire package of that response was built on the idea that the correct way to calm everything down was to try to rebuild trust with the BLM movement and the rioters and looters.

The correct way to handle protests and violence from the right would then obviously be the exact same thing. If you buy in that it works for leftist protests, you should buy in it works also for right wing protests. I think the danger is that leadership in this country will NOT show they are listening to nor embrace the cause of the right wing protesters. So loss of trust will fester on that side.

Its not about if you believe in either side. Its about getting everyone calmed back down and back to the table.

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I can't figure out what the goal of this thread is.

Obviously, to discuss ways to prevent insurrection and rebellion.

[szechuan]

In no way am I for insurrection or rebellion. Stop lying.

[Xeones]

Obviously, to discuss ways to prevent insurrection and rebellion.

We have people publicly and openly trying to end our democracy. It's completely unrelated to the nonsense you frequently post. So I repeat, what is your goal here?

[beanman12345]

Clown shoes you ain't getting your dream of Russians and Chinese helping Republicans murder Democrats. not sorry.

[Byleth]

We have people publicly and openly trying to end our democracy. It's completely unrelated to the nonsense you frequently post. So I repeat, what is your goal here?

This question needs an answer OP, go on...

[Cthulhu 2020]

I would argue all insurrections and rebellions have the same root cause: loss of trust. Once a large enough percentage of the people no longer trust the system, it is inevitable. I think everyone actually agrees with this.

When there was rioting and looting this summer, the response by leadership in this nation was to show the protestors complete and total respect, to try to listen and understand them, to have the police even kneel in response, for corporations to embrace what they are angry about and say they are being listened to, etc. The entire package of that response was built on the idea that the correct way to calm everything down was to try to rebuild trust with the BLM movement and the rioters and looters.

The correct way to handle protests and violence from the right would then obviously be the exact same thing. If you buy in that it works for leftist protests, you should buy in it works also for right wing protests. I think the danger is that leadership in this country will NOT show they are listening to nor embrace the cause of the right wing protesters. So loss of trust will fester on that side.

Its not about if you believe in either side. Its about getting everyone calmed back down and back to the table.

I agree that demonstrations happen because of a loss of trust. Thing is, the BLM demonstrations are because communities of color do not trust law enforcement to treat them fairly. Right wing unrest on the other hand exists in a far more ambiguous sphere. They don't just TRUST their own leaders, they worship them to the point that right wing populism is basically a religion at this point.

There's also an important detail here, right wing demonstrations have this tendency to turn violent, and not violent in the "protestors rushed a police shield wall who then tear gassed them", right wing demonstrations get violent in the "There were dead bodies" kind of way. As long as the right continues to idolize lethal force as a means to have their voice heard, nobody is going to listen to them.

People on these forums all too often equate the demonstrations between left and right, "THE LEFT WAS VIOLENT TOO!" Uh huh, yeah, the left is violent in that it smashes some windows and knocks over some trash cans. Which no reasonable person sees as anywhere close to things as the armed take over a wildlife nature reserve that ended in a shoot out, or right wing extremists trying to kidnap a the Democratic Michigan Governor.

That is the fundamental difference between left and right violence at this point in history. Left wing protests tend to be mostly peaceful, and those that do turn violent don't ever result in bodies. Meanwhile right wing violence tends to appear to be far closer to actual terrorism. And as the saying goes, there is no negotiating with terrorists. This isn't just some flippant saying. There literally is no negotiating with these people. When they've been radicalized to the point of violence on this level, they're no longer willing to negotiate.

And that leads me to yet another fundamental difference. BLM, Antifa, and other groups protest OPENLY, gathering in crowds to air their grievances with whatever entity they have it with. They are very open and broadcast why they are upset. That means they are willing to have a dialog to reach some kind of agreement between both parties. The right on the other hand plans their civil unrest in secret, they form militias and hatch plans behind closed doors, then launch strikes, planning to either kill (let's not forget the number of would be right wing assassins who were arrested this year for planning bombings/deaths) or capture. DEMONSTRATIONS that are inherently peaceful will lead to peaceful resolution. Acts of terrorism will only ever be met with intolerance, and no amount of pleading can ever make anyone tolerate terrorists.

But as I said in my first post in this thread, the right is not going to exhibit anything more than small cells that will be nothing more than minor footnotes in history. There will not be any catalyzing factor that will cause nearly enough people to actually want to join these whackos. And as long as the denizens of 4chan's politics forum have both food and entertainment, they won't find the balls to risk their lives for some nebulous idea of conservative values.

[Blur4stuff]

People who are scared to wear masks aren't going to participate in a war.

[Edge-]

I agree that demonstrations happen because of a loss of trust. Thing is, the BLM demonstrations are because communities of color do not trust law enforcement to treat them fairly. Right wing unrest on the other hand exists in a far more ambiguous sphere. They don't just TRUST their own leaders, they worship them to the point that right wing populism is basically a religion at this point.

Also like...protesting about something that's real - like a lack of police accountability and widespread injustice for communities of color - and something purely fictional - like asserting a Constitutional right to a haircut or gathering to deny the existence of a real virus while also saying the virus is caused by 5G.

Not all protests are created equal.