Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[jonnysensible]

So, how exactly do you plan on achieving your communist utopia without the use of authoritarian force?

I'm pretty sure you are the same person who wants the government to take over all industries.

there's a few school of thoughts

- enlightenment - id probably read Malatesta, Errico – At the Cafe
- revolutionary violence - Bonanno, Alfredo – Armed Joy
- parallel society building - uhh cant remember off the top of my head probably something by Malatesta

Its funny how liberal/right wing libertarianposters have turned a thread about white nationalist/fascist insurrection into a thread about how left wing thought is bad and all it took was a rightwinger to post about anarchists.

[Felya]

So does capitalism.........hmmmmmm

Does that imply that all government is destined for the same outcome, with the only thing holding them back is the sword of Democles?

[JohnBrown1917]

Supposed "anarchists" only support "survival of the strongest" whether they realize it or not.

I mean, you could just have said, like many before you, that you dont know what Anarchism actually is. Of which the basics have already been explained many times in this thread.

[Felya]

Tyranny of the strongest is what we got going on right now.

Sorry, we tried tyranny of the elite... the majority didn’t like it...

[JohnBrown1917]

there's a few school of thoughts

- enlightenment - id probably read Malatesta, Errico – At the Cafe
- revolutionary violence - Bonanno, Alfredo – Armed Joy
- parallel society building - uhh cant remember off the top of my head probably something by Malatesta

Its funny how liberal/right wing libertarianposters have turned a thread about white nationalist/fascist insurrection into a thread about how left wing thought is bad and all it took was a rightwinger to post about anarchists.

[IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/4uzcur.jpg[IMG]

But somehow Big bussiness being in charge of everything, like in libertartianism, will be totally okay.

[Felya]

But somehow Big bussiness being in charge of everything, like in libertartianism, will be totally okay.

That means nothing... how are you different from those complaining about big government? Be more specific...

[shimerra]

there's a few school of thoughts

- enlightenment - id probably read Malatesta, Errico – At the Cafe
- revolutionary violence - Bonanno, Alfredo – Armed Joy
- parallel society building - uhh cant remember off the top of my head probably something by Malatesta

Its funny how liberal/right wing libertarianposters have turned a thread about white nationalist/fascist insurrection into a thread about how left wing thought is bad and all it took was a rightwinger to post about anarchists.

I can address the stupidity of left wing and right wing ideas. It's not hard. I don't feel a partisan pull to not consider an idea bad because of where it falls on the idealogical spectrum.


I don't know if anyone told you but nationalism, facism, and anarchy can all be dumb ideas. And you can whine all you want about whether there's really such as thing as right wing anarchism. It's irrelevant to the point that it fits perfectly in the box if really dumb ideas like facism.

What's more funny is how you and the usual suspects who couldn't zip their pants without outside help keep doubling down on your defense of this terrible political philosophy. Let's not pretend communismwillwin and pro violence don't bring this kind of shit up in half the threads he posts in.

And I know at least one of those was right along cheering the violence of the facist nutters.

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I mean, you could just have said, like many before you, that you dont know what Anarchism actually is. Of which the basics have already been explained many times in this thread.

Still have zero compelling evidence you do. Which is in line with your posting despite a lack of knowledge on american government, UK, EU and we'll really any political or economic thought.

[Poopymonster]

The A on his belt is for Anarchy!!!!



Edit: Why would an ancient villain of immense power put their initial on a belt? Because villains have communal laundry and ending up with Magneto’s belt is embarrassing. The red just clashes with blue... and the fit is just off... Dazzler would just give them endless shit...

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Oh... my... god... I present... Marvel’s Captain Anarchy... the first text bubble... I can’t... sides... exploding... lol!!!!

Even though I'm a Marvel fan and don't like DC, reminds me of Superman: Red Son.

[Felya]

Even though I'm a Marvel fan and don't like DC, reminds me of Superman: Red Son.

NO!!!!!!!!

This is from into the spiderverse... from the... jeebus... Spider-Punk universe... it’s not good... lol

Superman: Red Son is one of the best comic book stories I ever read. I put it right up there with Watchman...

Edit: I am moving away from main stream comics, not because am cool or anything. Most stories put out, I’ve simply read similar, because am old. Indy comics have new stories or at least interesting takes on existing tropes. Although... I do heart me the Hickman XMen... He is touching subjects... lol

[Machismo]

there's a few school of thoughts

- enlightenment - id probably read Malatesta, Errico – At the Cafe
- revolutionary violence - Bonanno, Alfredo – Armed Joy
- parallel society building - uhh cant remember off the top of my head probably something by Malatesta

Its funny how liberal/right wing libertarianposters have turned a thread about white nationalist/fascist insurrection into a thread about how left wing thought is bad and all it took was a rightwinger to post about anarchists.

The issue with communism, is there is always an attempt of force to get people to participate. Well, when it comes to actual large-scale communism.

[shimerra]

Also, you're always rude and seem unable to post without at least cursing or insulting in your posts. Makes all your posts come across as smugly arrogant. (Not saying this to flame... Just pointing out the obvious.)

If it's obvious then why feel the need to point it out? I've also directly told you, and others, i'm not concerned with being nice. And I curse because cursing is the seasoning of language. And sometimes calling the content you provide dumb isn't enough. It needs a fucking dumb to provide a more accurate picture. I also generally don't bother to post except to comment on the profoundly wrong or stupid posts so that's just selection bias of sorts. And frequently by the time I post others have already explained it nicely and it doesn't take. So I prefer not to bother when you've already shown a preference to double down.


And I'm not overly concerned about someone who supported the violence of far right nut jobs because of whatever nonsense justification about chaos and the status quo opinion of my posting. Your thoughts are just as vile as the beliefs that drove them to riot. You just lack the conviction to follow through on your beliefs. Or means. Either way a whisper of a difference. If calling you what you are is rude I'm not bothered by that. And if demonstrating your ignorance is my arrogance I can live with that too.

Armchair insurrectionists like yourself too chicken shit to get up themselves. The same as all the right wing nut jobs who told me the 2nd amendment was to stop tyranny while cheering on Trump abducting children and more .

[Themius]

The issue with communism, is there is always an attempt of force to get people to participate. Well, when it comes to actual large-scale communism.

The issue with communism is so far every single regimen has had to deal with outside forces actively trying to destroy it...

The actual big big big issue with communism is planning the production of the entire economy... that was almost impossible to do efficiently back then. Though there was a program Chile was working on... an early computer system to do just that... but then you know how it goes.

Democratically elected Socialist leader ousted due to a coup by a far-right Christian Fascist who went on to kill tens of thousands, and my oh my... who was behind that? Just the USA, and what happened to the computer system? Well the CIA destroyed it.

Project Cybersyn was a Chilean project from 1971 to 1973 during the presidency of Salvador Allende aimed at constructing a distributed decision support system to aid in the management of the national economy. The project consisted of four modules: an economic simulator, custom software to check factory performance, an operations room, and a national network of telex machines that were linked to one mainframe computer.[2]

Project Cybersyn was based on viable system model theory approach to organizational design, and featured innovative technology for its time: it included a network of telex machines (Cybernet) in state-run enterprises that would transmit and receive information with the government in Santiago. Information from the field would be fed into statistical modeling software (Cyberstride) that would monitor production indicators, such as raw material supplies or high rates of worker absenteeism, in "almost" real time, alerting the workers in the first case and, in abnormal situations, if those parameters fell outside acceptable ranges by a very large degree, also the central government. The information would also be input into economic simulation software (CHECO, for CHilean ECOnomic simulator) that the government could use to forecast the possible outcome of economic decisions. Finally, a sophisticated operations room (Opsroom) would provide a space where managers could see relevant economic data, formulate feasible responses to emergencies, and transmit advice and directives to enterprises and factories in alarm situations by using the telex network.

The principal architect of the system was British operations research scientist Stafford Beer, and the system embodied his notions of organisational cybernetics in industrial management. One of its main objectives was to devolve decision-making power within industrial enterprises to their workforce in order to develop self-regulation of factories.

After the CIA-backed military coup on September 11, 1973, Cybersyn was abandoned and the operations room was destroyed.

[Machismo]

The issue with communism is so far every single regimen has had to deal with outside forces actively trying to destroy it...

The actual big big big issue with communism is planning the production of the entire economy... that was almost impossible to do efficiently back then. Though there was a program Chile was working on... an early computer system to do just that... but then you know how it goes.

Democratically elected Socialist leader ousted due to a coup by a far-right Christian Fascist who went on to kill tens of thousands, and my oh my... who was behind that? Just the USA, and what happened to the computer system? Well the CIA destroyed it.

Are you saying Stalin and Lenin would have been fine, if it wasn't for outside nations?

Nah, fuck that.

I'm all for people choosing communism, so long as they are actually free to choose it. The issue is when communists (or any other group) seek to force their chosen government upon everyone else.

As for these right-wing violent asshats who raided the Capitol Building, they weren't anarchists... they were violent fascists. Now they may swear they don't want government, but that's not really true. They loved Trump when he was in charge, so their goals are not anarchy... it's dominance.

The same goes for anarcho-communists.

[JohnBrown1917]

If the big problem is that anarchist societies can be abused.. I got some news about how that already applies to every single idealogy that we have.



Its a meaningless argument.

[Mihalik]

The issue with communism, is there is always an attempt of force to get people to participate. Well, when it comes to actual large-scale communism.

Left wing anarchism isn't synonymous with communism. They share certain objectives and are natural allies up to a certain point.

Let's face it.

The interests of your average poor, working and middle class American are better represented by a left leaning anarchist or a full blow communist than by any so called "centrist". "Centrism" in the US is a wildly deceptive term as it really just means pro capitalism (without the ability for critical reflection upon the failures of the capitalist economic model) and socially mostly liberal (up to a certain point, but still lacking any real class consciousness or solidarity).

The reason why I'd rather engage or ally myself with a commie or a lefty anarchist is because they bring the critical eye to our existing overwhelmingly dominant political and economic system, that the system by itself lacks and is incapable of having.

Furthermore by the nature of their politics they place a greater emphasis on social and individual well-being than right wing "critics" (I mean fascists or ANCAP loony libertarians).

You don't need to be a Marxist, to read Marxist thought and find valid critique and useful tools of analysis in it.

I'm not a Marxist, by a mile. But Marxists aren't wrong about the inherent problems of capitalism and make excellent points about the need to reign in and keep a tight control on the worst natural tendencies of the system via things like market intervention, regulation and labor movements.

You know what the wet dream and near ultimate realistic objective of lefty anarchists and commies in the US is?

To develop sufficient class consciousness and syndicalist infrastructure in the US for workers to be able to call a general strike.

That would fundamentally alter the power balance between the capitalist class and the poor/working/middle class overnight.

Imagine if 80% of all workers would stop going to work tomorrow until substantial healthcare reform is passed? It would be passed before the work day would be over.

[Machismo]

If the big problem is that anarchist societies can be abused.. I got some news about how that already applies to every single idealogy that we have.



Its a meaningless argument.

The issue is that an anarchist society has no means in which to deal with observational outliers within that society.

How does an anarchist society deal with a thief? A murderer? A rapist?

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Left wing anarchism isn't synonymous with communism. They share certain objectives and are natural allies up to a certain point.

Let's face it.

The interests of your average poor, working and middle class American are better represented by a left leaning anarchist or a full blow communist than by any so called "centrist". "Centrism" in the US is a wildly deceptive term as it really just means pro capitalism (without the ability for critical reflection upon the failures of the capitalist economic model) and socially mostly liberal (up to a certain point, but still lacking any real class consciousness or solidarity).

The reason why I'd rather engage or ally myself with a commie or a lefty anarchist is because they bring the critical eye to our existing overwhelmingly dominant political and economic system, that the system by itself lacks and is incapable of having.

Furthermore by the nature of their politics they place a greater emphasis on social and individual well-being than right wing "critics" (I mean fascists or ANCAP loony libertarians).

You don't need to be a Marxist, to read Marxist thought and find valid critique and useful tools of analysis in it.

I'm not a Marxist, by a mile. But Marxists aren't wrong about the inherent problems of capitalism and make excellent points about the need to reign in and keep a tight control on the worst natural tendencies of the system via things like market intervention, regulation and labor movements.

We were specifically talking about anarcho-communists, so I continued along that path.

I'm all for you being an anarchist, go have your fun. But, the second you want to require others participate, then you are a problem, and you are also no longer an anarchist.

[Mihalik]

We were specifically talking about anarcho-communists, so I continued along that path..

1st. There are plenty of flavors of libertarians (and there are also more numerous) who see absolutely no role for the existence of any government of any type. Not even a military etc.

2nd Anarcho communists are about as rare as white doves and are about as crazy as sovereign citizen. Also most Anarcho communists usually grow out of it and turn into anarcho-syndicalists once they actually enter the labor market.

[Themius]

Are you saying Stalin and Lenin would have been fine, if it wasn't for outside nations?

Nah, fuck that.

I'm all for people choosing communism, so long as they are actually free to choose it. The issue is when communists (or any other group) seek to force their chosen government upon everyone else.

As for these right-wing violent asshats who raided the Capitol Building, they weren't anarchists... they were violent fascists. Now they may swear they don't want government, but that's not really true. They loved Trump when he was in charge, so their goals are not anarchy... it's dominance.

The same goes for anarcho-communists.

Lenin you mean the guy who ran the ussr for two years??? Surely not that Lenin

[Machismo]

1st. There are plenty of flavors of libertarians (and there are also more numerous) who see absolutely no role for the existence of any government of any type. Not even a military etc.

2nd Anarcho communists are about as rare as white doves and are about as crazy as sovereign citizen. Also most Anarcho communists usually grow out of it and turn into anarcho-syndicalists once they actually enter the labor market.

Then, they are anarchists, by definition. And I said from the very beginning, there are right-wing anarchists. Libertarianism itself isn't anarchy. One has the means in which to deal with outliers, the other really does not.

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Lenin you mean the guy who ran the ussr for two years??? Surely not that Lenin

So... he wasn't fine.

[Endus]

I'm all for people choosing communism, so long as they are actually free to choose it. The issue is when communists (or any other group) seek to force their chosen government upon everyone else.

And yet, you're fine with people being forced into capitalism.

Seems like your issue isn't actually the use of force, mate.

Inherent to the concept of "choice" must be the existence of an alternative. I sure know I was never offered an alternative to the capitalist frameworks that make up so much of the economic system of my country. It wasn't a "choice", at all.

And before you say "well, you could move to another country", go ahead and name me a liberal market socialist nation real quick, would you?