Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Dead Moose Fandango]

You seem pretty upset there, chief. Another reason why I'll never vote blue, or support your causes. You people turn into irate children and indignant crybabies whenever someone expresses an opposing viewpoint. So, stay mad I guess, but you are not the good guys as much as you want to be or think you are.

Pot calling the kettle black. Are democrats perfect? God no. Cuomo is a perfect example of a scum-bag democrat. But he's still light years better than the GoP. Used to be a republican myself. Then this crap happened. I won't vote for a republican for the rest of my life.

[pathora44]

I think McConnell said some bullshit about moving on and not dwelling on the past.

Which is gut busting hilarious from the man who oversaw the Senate during 4 years of Benghazi and buttery males investigations.

[D Luniz]

so Tim Scott didnt vote for it..Im not surprised, yet Im actually disappointed

[downnola]

Sorta shows how absolutely fucked American democracy is. Almost an absolute minority is able to fully and completely control what kind of legislation gets passed due to the filibuster. It's so very degenerate.

It's just the kind of system you would want if your goal was to keep an unpopular institution in place.

Like slavery, for example.

[Ivanstone]

Yeah. We're not going to get Arizona at this point if we run like, an Elizabeth Warren. Or even like a Hillary Clinton. The way forward is to run more liberal candidates in places that've turned safer, like Virginia, and then get more moderates in contested places like Texas. Also, get more states.

Mark Kelly ran on a progressive platform and won in Arizona.

[Draco-Onis]

Yeah. We're not going to get Arizona at this point if we run like, an Elizabeth Warren. Or even like a Hillary Clinton. The way forward is to run more liberal candidates in places that've turned safer, like Virginia, and then get more moderates in contested places like Texas. Also, get more states.

At this point winning is more determined by voting laws than actual voting with Jim Crow 2.0 laws passed in all these states republicans now have the power of simply throwing out votes. I don't think the problem is liberal candidates because the right wing is going to run more batshit Marjorie Taylor Greene candidates. All democrats have to do is remove Joe Manchin from McConnell's ass to get rid of the filibuster to pass the voting rights act. If democrats don't get their shit together and let these laws stand it won't matter who we run in those states.

[tehdang]

what are the reasons republicans are giving to block investigations? (In my eyes, investigations should happen, that storming wasnt ''free speech'' but an assault on goverment assets)

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...on-bill-489573 (McConnell on Senate Floor, 1min36s)
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...nscript-may-25 (Senate GOP leadership in a press conference, begins ~11:36, 2min/trascript)

block investigations?

Note that the Senate has two investigations in their committees, and Democratic-controlled House can (and will) open their own investigation. Republicans can block neither. Republicans cannot block the FBI investigation into the people that committed the crimes and were responsible for any organization. Note also that House and Senate committees/select committees have subpoena power and testimony is under oath.

[Edge-]

Note that the Senate has two investigations in their committees, and Democratic-controlled House can (and will) open their own investigation. Republicans can block neither. Republicans cannot block the FBI investigation into the people that committed the crimes and were responsible for any organization. Note also that House and Senate committees/select committees have subpoena power and testimony is under oath.

The Republicans complaining "it's political" are literally playing politics here. It's a bloody independent commission, unlike the Senate investigations beginning now which are being done by politicians. And those investigations aren't very comprehensive, there are more than just two in the Senate but they're not making much headway.

The whole point of the independent commission is that it's not politicians running the show, and members are appointed by leaders of both parties, and it has broad and expansive investigatory powers. This is functionally the same design as the 9/11 commission.

That those other investigations are happening, and are investigating various specifics about the riot, this is a separate, far more comprehensive and all encompassing investigation with the intent of providing something like the 9/11 Report.

[Endus]

The Republicans complaining "it's political" are literally playing politics here. It's a bloody independent commission, unlike the Senate investigations beginning now which are being done by politicians. And those investigations aren't very comprehensive, there are more than just two in the Senate but they're not making much headway.

The whole point of the independent commission is that it's not politicians running the show, and members are appointed by leaders of both parties, and it has broad and expansive investigatory powers. This is functionally the same design as the 9/11 commission.

That those other investigations are happening, and are investigating various specifics about the riot, this is a separate, far more comprehensive and all encompassing investigation with the intent of providing something like the 9/11 Report.

Well, the good news is you can now get totally-not-political DOJ investigations and prosecutions.

Reminder that giving any kind of "aid or comfort" to an insurrectionist means you, yourself, are guilty of insurrection. And at a minimum, conviction of that invalidates you for holding any US office, which means any sitting member of House or Senate who's convicted would be immediately and irrevocably removed from that position, and unable to ever run again (short of successfully appealing the conviction).

Edit: And before anyone says "political witchhunt", not prosecuting criminal politicians for their crimes, that would be political bias and corruption. The only way to avoid that is to prosecute.

[Ripster42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this kind of commission is just a special investigation, right?

The DOJ can still, like, investigate and prosecute crimes committed, right?.

Yes, that's ongoing.

But it wasn't ever going to pass. And she did win, and that win gave us the Senate. I know she's a pain in the ass, but she's our pain in the ass, with that nice big (D) beside her name. Which is Yuge.

Yeah. We're not going to get Arizona at this point if we run like, an Elizabeth Warren. Or even like a Hillary Clinton. The way forward is to run more liberal candidates in places that've turned safer, like Virginia, and then get more moderates in contested places like Texas. Also, get more states.

I'll be surprised if she doesn't get a primary challenge. The growing dem presence there isn't your typical red-state democrats. The populace there isn't west virginia voting for manchin. It's a reddish state where a bunch of very liberal older people are moving. What FL has in political adherents for the GOP moving south as they age, AZ has for the progressive left. They're the business hippies who think hiking and public service is better than the beach for retirement.

what are the reasons republicans are giving to block investigations? (In my eyes, investigations should happen, that storming wasnt ''free speech'' but an assault on goverment assets)

2022 elections. The turtle is devoid of morals.

Does a filibuster seriously require a majority of total members to clear, and not just a majority of members present? What the everloving fuck?

Filibuster requires 3/5 of the chamber to override. Not majority. Her vote/presence wouldn't have made a difference.

[xanzul]

https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...ommission-bill



And blocked in the Senate.

Reminder: Republicans are the party of pro-insurrection, pro-police assault, pro-shitting on the floors in the halls of Congress, pro-kidnapping, pro-assassination, pro-conspiracy theories. Elected Republicans are just awful, terrible, no good people.

I genuinely don't know how they sleep at night, but it must be really nice not having a moral compass or any semblance of a conscience.

The US is lost. Unless something major happens soon the US will fall in 2022.

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You are correct - the Bi-partisan commission is just a special investigation. It does not affect the DoJ work in any capacity.

And yeah, it appears bipartisanship is truly dead. Even with six GOP senators voting in favor, Moscow Mitch killed it.

The GQP are now a terrorist organization and need to be treated as such. There is no compromising or cooperation with terrorists. Voting isn't going to fix this in 2022 because of all the groundwork the GQP are laying currently with various voter suppression bills and upcoming gerrymandering due to new census results.

We. Are. Fucked.

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Sinema, a Democrat from Arizona "Missed" the vote. Whe The Bleep nominated her in the Dem primaries" She is a waste.

She was Green Party which is a front for the GQP to divide the vote and allow republicans to win elections. She is nothing but trash. Her little curtsy when she voted against raising the minimum wage proved it. Fuck her.

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But it wasn't ever going to pass. And she did win, and that win gave us the Senate. I know she's a pain in the ass, but she's our pain in the ass, with that nice big (D) beside her name. Which is Yuge.

No. The party she belonged to previously is well known to be a spoiler for elections. She is absolutely 100% not remotely close to anything Democrat. She is serving her GQP overlords well.

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https://twitter.com/rcdimezzo/status...16888341852162



Worth noting. Republicans have no appreciation for law enforcement, or the people who literally risked their lives to save the lives of members of the Senate, some likely very directly, like Romney. They have no respect for the officer that risked his life to draw the mob away from lawmakers while suffering racist verbal abuse and physical threats.

Republicans are scum. Republicans are filth. I can only hope that their violent, unhinged base turns on them, next.

Thank fucking god for Goodman or we would very likely be in a far more worse situation right now. It is insane how much denial there is about how close we came to the US falling and make no mistake about it, the US is still falling just a little more slowly than the fascists would like.

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what are the reasons republicans are giving to block investigations? (In my eyes, investigations should happen, that storming wasnt ''free speech'' but an assault on goverment assets)

They have no legitimate reasons. They are terrorists and despite being a minority party they still have a stranglehold over this country.

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I think McConnell said some bullshit about moving on and not dwelling on the past.

Moscow Mitch was literally pressuring GQP senators to vote against the commission as a "personal favor".

These traitors aren't even hiding it anymore.

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Does a filibuster seriously require a majority of total members to clear, and not just a majority of members present? What the everloving fuck?

Fucking Manchin had the balls to actually bitch about how the vote went. He is literally 1 of 2 reasons why the fillibuster exists.

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Which is gut busting hilarious from the man who oversaw the Senate during 4 years of Benghazi and buttery males investigations.

Literally THIRTY THREE Benghazi investigations. Democrats and this nation are in a fight for their lives. They need to start fucking acting like it or its over.

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Filibustering is more about Jim Crow than slavery.

Yes because Jim Crow laws totally have nothing to do with slavery. Are you fucking serious right now? Jim Crow was the response to slavery no longer being allowed and a way to keep black people subservient to whites. Jesus fucking christ people never fucking learn.

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At this point winning is more determined by voting laws than actual voting with Jim Crow 2.0 laws passed in all these states republicans now have the power of simply throwing out votes. I don't think the problem is liberal candidates because the right wing is going to run more batshit Marjorie Taylor Greene candidates. All democrats have to do is remove Joe Manchin from McConnell's ass to get rid of the filibuster to pass the voting rights act. If democrats don't get their shit together and let these laws stand it won't matter who we run in those states.

We heard endless bleating about voting during the worst year of this country's history and yes it resulted in Trump being out of office but he is still running the GQP and his crazy followers are gaining more and more influence and support. Voting is not going to fix anything in the US at this point. The GQP is stacking the deck against anyone who disagrees with them and it is actually going to work.

[cubby]

The GQP are now a terrorist organization and need to be treated as such. There is no compromising or cooperation with terrorists. Voting isn't going to fix this in 2022 because of all the groundwork the GQP are laying currently with various voter suppression bills and upcoming gerrymandering due to new census results.

We. Are. Fucked.

Agreed. I spent a serious half hour looking at places to move to in Canada. I figure @Endus can be my sponsor.

No. The party she belonged to previously is well known to be a spoiler for elections. She is absolutely 100% not remotely close to anything Democrat. She is serving her GQP overlords well.

She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.

[Masark]

She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.

"Control".

Much control when she partners with the Treason and Sedition Party to block any actual progress.

[tehdang]

The Republicans complaining "it's political" are literally playing politics here. It's a bloody independent commission, unlike the Senate investigations beginning now which are being done by politicians. And those investigations aren't very comprehensive, there are more than just two in the Senate but they're not making much headway.

The whole point of the independent commission is that it's not politicians running the show, and members are appointed by leaders of both parties, and it has broad and expansive investigatory powers. This is functionally the same design as the 9/11 commission.

That those other investigations are happening, and are investigating various specifics about the riot, this is a separate, far more comprehensive and all encompassing investigation with the intent of providing something like the 9/11 Report.

I'm less fearful that House and Senate investigations run by the party most interested in making Republicans bear increased blame will fail for comprehensiveness nor for lack of power. I'll reserve my full opinion and retrospective at least until equal time has passed between 9/11 and the 9/11 commission.

[xanzul]

Agreed. I spent a serious half hour looking at places to move to in Canada. I figure @Endus can be my sponsor.



She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.

I really want to know why she had to leave DC before this vote though. It will be some stupid bullshit thing but I still want to know. I'm just ashamed of the US right now. We can do better. We are better.

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"Control".

Much control when she partners with the Treason and Sedition Party to block any actual progress.

This is why the DOJ needs to start filing charges against various Senators directly involved in the planning of 1/6. Get these traitorous fucks out of office and actually get to work on fixing the damage of the past year. It is insane we have literal criminals and traitors blocking legislation we desperately need.

Election day is not going to fix this because state legislatures are making sure that won't happen. I think it is time to go full nuclear and actually start fighting back because Democrats have nothing to lose. In 2022 we are done. Period. End of story. There is no hope of changing course. We need to start pushing for these traitors to be charged with the crimes they have committed and we need to stop with this "wheels of justice turn slowly" bullshit. We all saw what happened on 1/6. It has been fully documented by the perpetrators and posted on social media and we have access to the parler dump.

It is time to take a stand. We need to stop putting up with this bullshit and they are going to keep murdering us whenever they can.

It is time for the ammo box. We literally have multiple GQP members threatening to kill those who disagree.

The constitution has already been thrown out the window and it can not and will not save us. The military already noped out prior to 1/6. We are on our own.

[Mihalik]

I'm just ashamed of the US right now. We can do better. We are better.

Could we do better? Absolutely.

Are we actually better? No. No we are not.

After 8 years of Dubya Bush and watching that degenerate into Trumpism with the pathetic shitshow that the were the Obama years in between, we are absolutely not better than that.

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I'm less fearful that House and Senate investigations run by the party most interested in making Republicans bear increased blame will fail for comprehensiveness nor for lack of power. I'll reserve my full opinion and retrospective at least until equal time has passed between 9/11 and the 9/11 commission.

Just for sake of clarity.

Are you suggesting 1/6 wasn't a purely Republican affair provoked and cheered on the likes of Trump, Hawley, Cruz etc?

Are you suggesting there are 2 sides to this?

[uuuhname]

I'm less fearful that House and Senate investigations run by the party most interested in making Republicans bear increased blame will fail for comprehensiveness nor for lack of power. I'll reserve my full opinion and retrospective at least until equal time has passed between 9/11 and the 9/11 commission.

one party has members of it that should be put on trial and dragged to a gallows for their participation in trying to overthrow our democracy. this is a fact and anyone saying otherwise are equally suspect.

[Endus]

one party has members of it that should be put on trial and dragged to a gallows for their participation in trying to overthrow our democracy. this is a fact and anyone saying otherwise are equally suspect.

"Dragged to a gallows" is perhaps a bit much.

It would be sufficient for them to be charged and convicted for the aid and comfort they offered to insurrectionists. Since, y'know, legal definition of insurrection.

That drags them out of office, and once the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene are out of office and unable to ever run again, they matter as much to US society as your everyday average Karen getting tackled to the ground in an airport for refusing to wear a mask while boarding.

[uuuhname]

"Dragged to a gallows" is perhaps a bit much.

It would be sufficient for them to be charged and convicted for the aid and comfort they offered to insurrectionists. Since, y'know, legal definition of insurrection.

That drags them out of office, and once the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene are out of office and unable to ever run again, they matter as much to US society as your everyday average Karen getting tackled to the ground in an airport for refusing to wear a mask while boarding.

yes, but there were elements within the insurrection that had every intention of murdering members of congress to install a dictator. from the zip-tie guys all the way to members of congress and the senate. thankfully for us all they didn't succeed, but that right there presents the problem of it happening again.

I guess my tolerance for these right wingers and their behavior is at the end of it's rope. I want these people expunged from our society, one way or the other.

[Endus]

For her to be unable to run for office again wouldn’t Congress have to impeach, convict, and bar her?

Nope!

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Important bits in bold. That's just normal crime; the DOJ can prosecute any sitting member of Congress just fine for these crimes; only the President has any kind of immunity from prosecution while in office. This is one of the only crimes that has that tagline. Also, note that the wording states that the barring from office is a mandatory sentencing clause, not one up for judicial discretion like the fine or prison sentence.

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yes, but there were elements within the insurrection that had every intention of murdering members of congress to install a dictator. from the zip-tie guys all the way to members of congress and the senate. thankfully for us all they didn't succeed, but that right there presents the problem of it happening again.

I guess my tolerance for these right wingers and their behavior is at the end of it's rope. I want these people expunged from our society, one way or the other.

I'm not suggesting that the insurrection was a small thing. It wasn't, and anyone part of the crowd that broke into the Capitol should be facing five years or more in prison, just for their participation, with higher sentences for those who did more than just follow along.

I'm speaking to the likes of politicians whose only participation was Tweeting support or assistance. Lauren Boebert should be dead simple to convict, as she was literally tweeting the location of the Speaker as people were breaking in to try and kill her. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, for instance, Tweeted that the rioters were Democrats; that's an attempt to deflect blame from the actual criminals, and that qualifies as "aid and comfort". So she should be convicted too.

I just feel that 5+ years in prison over a tweet is perhaps a bit much. Removing them from office and barring them from national politics forever is fine, in that case. Particularly since that's a standard that can be applied to, like, a massive chunk of Republican representation. A lot.