Am i being toxic player?

[Khallid]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Almost every reaction that is unreasonably mean is just called toxic. The definition is very vague and encompasses a lot of things. The examples you list are fairly toxic, but there's a lot more.

It's not just responsibility. The main issue is just being mean. If you were talking with somebody face to face and a problem arised, they would probably try to explain what went wrong. But in the game it's like they can't be bothered to even talk, they just rage. A toxic player will basically skip all cordiality and jump into blaming and cursing, instead of just talking like any normal person would. And of course, they never admit their own fault.

I've seen really bad players that play like shit, don't recognize their mistakes, and don't try to help the group, but they can still be nice when they speak and have a positive attitude, so they don't feel like they're toxic, they're just bad players. Being irresponsible and being an asshole can be independent.

[GreenJesus]

This is the exact sentiment I laid out back in TBC, for the raid guild (Ended up being a Sunwell group, in the top of the realm) I made and lead during that expansion. It is not at all a common sentiment, as you've documented. People don't give a fuck. About their own time, and certainly not about that of others. Your solution is to find a stable group of guildies or friends as soon as possible. People who have social bonds of some nature, and are therefore accountable in ways randoms are not.

But no, you were not toxic. You dealt with the everyday toxicity of people who join and ruin runs because they have no clue what they're doing, and consider it irrelevant.

"Its just an 11. Just heal through it idiot. Method did 11s blindfolded and in grey gear."

[Mardux]

I totally agree, if im going +11 i expected everyone to be skilled or atleast know fights, im not any pro player or anything, but im able to admit when i fail, i dont know every spell the mobs are casting, but i heal, help dps, use pots, have CD management, because i saw one video from pro players how to correctly play mythic as Resto shaman this is what i have invested 20 minutes on youtube to save multiple of hours of others.

From communication PoV im not mean, not writing swear words, im just asking questions : Why did you die, why u dont know the mechanics? Why not read it or say before we pull that you need to reassure maybe you dont remember eveything from the boss fight, so rather say it before we pull, rather spend 20 sec of explaing what to do instead of wiping 5 ppl and fail to achive it in time.

But i guess i really need to find stable group of ppl and not playing with randoms.


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but if you see that we wipe 2 times on the same boss on the same mechanics, isnt better to tell whats wrong? i was quiet and we died 5 times and then i left. Im responsible for my wording and text i write to you as a person, in not responsible for your action to leave the group because i cant accept the message.

So should i rather be like... omg dont write anything because maybe he/she will left and be ofended.

The fact that you say you know "each boss and trash mechanics" then on your very first reply change the story to "I dont know every spell the mobs are casting" pretty much removes the credibility from your initial post about how they did everything wrong and you were carrying the group (including the part about you soaking crystals and not letting dps do it, wasting the damage buff in the process).

Given that you took away your own credibility, its pretty safe to fall on "if you have to ask, you probably were."

[BananaHandsB]

I'd love to see a screenshot of your conversation with the group. If you came off as an asshole, which I have a sneaking suspicion you did , you shouldn't be surprised that random people didn't want to spend any more time with you, especially when M+ groups are a dime a dozen. If you act like you think you're God's gift to the dungeon group, be prepared to have people show you how little they give a shit about inflating your ego any further.

[Kaver]

Generally speaking, being a dick to someone that was inconsiderate still means that you're a dick. Stooping to someone's level isn't a good excuse for toxic behavior.

Additionally, some people simply don't realize that they're committing a faux pas in these situations. It's not like every baddie you run into in a Mythic 10+ has pulled this move before. It's not like the guy who doesn't know the strategy in your heroic raid has also joined a bunch of other heroic raids and made the same mistake. A decent chunk of these people are people who figure, "hey, +7 was a breeze, +11 can't be that bad"... and then learn that they were very wrong. These people didn't disrespect you, they just didn't know any better.

I don't have to imagine only having 1-2 hours to play and having my time wasted. I came back to WoW back in BFA and I experienced this, first hand, almost every day that I played. It suuuuuuucks big time, I 100% agree... but it's still not right to speak to these people as if they were garbage.

Your “additionally” is phrasing the question in reverse direction from what I originally asked. My question was not “should you always talk down to other people?”. My question was “should you never talk down to other people?”. And I do still believe that if someone deliberately is disrespectful by going into a dungeon without knowing any tactics and wasting other peoples time then in that specific scenario I have no problem talking down to them.

[Deneios]

Uhh, its the healers job to diffuse bombs? And why would you need to stack for the AoE, if that goes through you already fucked up earlier. Since you seem to not know that, I kinda dont believe that you did "everything properly".

Depends on class but generally no. If it is right next to you then you should disarm it but it should be the job of the one who has best mobility and least setup for the role he does. Holy pala isnt running the bombs but druid could if he has hots already going.

[T-34]

Some people find it more acceptable that a person is shit at the game and wilfully wastes other people's time than people telling other people that they are bad.
Those people think that you have a duty to help and teach other players. They value "being nice" over their own and other people's time.

Some people find it more acceptable to tell a person straight away that he is shit than accepting his badness.
Those people think that it is the individual player's own responsibility to best he can be. They value their own and other people's time over "being nice".

You clearly belong in group 2. That neither makes you or the other guy "toxic". People from those 2 groups can't play together without making life miserable for each other.
The only solution for you is to be as picky as possible when you group up with other people to ensure that you only play with people from group 2.

The funny thing is that people from group 1 need people from group 2 to progress in this game, not the other way around.

[op3l]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

Nah, you're not toxic. You play like I do and I'd be willing to bet you do pretty well in guild raids and such. There's a point in every dungeon run where it's just enough. The group won't progress further in a timely fashion. That's when i'd quit as well.

I do the same thing you do. I try to do the best I can. I'm polite and try to be as helpful as possible with the end goal that the group gets past this dungeon and everyone gets their loot and move on to the next.

[Fabinas]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

My opinion is you lack self esteem and basic social skills. You not understanding who's ta fault in the described situation, seeking approval from strangers in a forum means you're either :

A. Young.
B. Socially inexperienced
C. Naive
D. All of the above.

[Nite92]

Depends on class but generally no. If it is right next to you then you should disarm it but it should be the job of the one who has best mobility and least setup for the role he does. Holy pala isnt running the bombs but druid could if he has hots already going.

You position yourself in one quadrant close to the boss, and every bomb that is not in this area, is the healers job, period. You can do it as a dps to help the healer, but that is like bringing 6 healers to mythic shriekwing. It is possible, but certainly not optimal.

[Fidisko]

Hate to be the one that points this out but that part of your post just described what you did even if you were in the right (can't be 100% on the situation since we're only hearing your side of the story). You were literally blaming everyone else for failing. As @LanToaster LanToaster mentioned, there's two sides to every story and some times how you said it can be the toxic part not just what message you were saying. And on a side note, as a healer, on that particular fight you should be doing the bombs anyway unless they are across the room from where you are at. If DPS has to stop killing shit to take care of a bomb, it extends the fight which means you'll have to heal even longer. Every single DOS I've done on my holy priest I've been the one that does bomb diffusing. I've also soloed my own platform/portal on the last boss multiple times.

i have mentioned this, i have no issues with bombs, i have issue when im on the other side of the platform and bomb is licking the boot of ranged dps and he does not click.

- - - Updated - - -

My opinion is you lack self esteem and basic social skills. You not understanding who's ta fault in the described situation, seeking approval from strangers in a forum means you're either :

A. Young.
B. Socially inexperienced
C. Naive
D. All of the above.

and you just a put a judgement on someone you have no idea who he is, my age, my job etc , so it makes you same as you mentioned.

- - - Updated - - -

Some people find it more acceptable that a person is shit at the game and wilfully wastes other people's time than people telling other people that they are bad.
Those people think that you have a duty to help and teach other players. They value "being nice" over their own and other people's time.

Some people find it more acceptable to tell a person straight away that he is shit than accepting his badness.
Those people think that it is the individual player's own responsibility to best he can be. They value their own and other people's time over "being nice".

You clearly belong in group 2. That neither makes you or the other guy "toxic". People from those 2 groups can't play together without making life miserable for each other.
The only solution for you is to be as picky as possible when you group up with other people to ensure that you only play with people from group 2.

The funny thing is that people from group 1 need people from group 2 to progress in this game, not the other way around.

i think you nailed it . This is the best response in this forum, that is exactly how i feel and reading more responses from this forum, those 2 kinds of groups are here as well.

[Belloc]

Your “additionally” is phrasing the question in reverse direction from what I originally asked. My question was not “should you always talk down to other people?”. My question was “should you never talk down to other people?”. And I do still believe that if someone deliberately is disrespectful by going into a dungeon without knowing any tactics and wasting other peoples time then in that specific scenario I have no problem talking down to them.

And I still believe that it's not disrespectful for a pug to try to run a dungeon or raid that they don't know.

[Angrie]

The fuck are you talking about. The word was toxic was used in this manner before 2011 lmao.

What are you talking about?

The plague of "toxic" 100% started from fanboys copycatting Phreak. A case of not thinking for themselves and is why we're at the point where "toxic" is used as a splash word for everything. Of course the WORD was used prior to 2011, but not like it is today and it started with commentary about League's tribunal system during LCS. Phreak used the word "toxic" over and over in commentary, people started with the memes of him being unable to pick a word other than "toxic" to describe crude behavior. Thus everything became toxic.

Sounds to me like you should look into it before commenting, clearly you're going off the cuff.. Mr TROLLHUNTER 3000

[Freeghost]

Manastorm fight is literally the easiest boss in all of Shadowlands so far, how can people be so clueless as to not know what to do? It should be dps to defuse the bombs, not the healer.

Lol, for sure its not the easiest fight, not to say its hard but easier ones come to mind. Also the healer defusing is nothing special. My grp always does it since there is nothing to heal during this phase apart from the explosions. Obviously everyone should pay attention and if the healer cant get one maybe step in but in my experience thats not necessary 99% of the time.

[Naiattavain]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

theres different aspects to this. could be a player values difference. i mean that pretty bad experience altogether but toxic is like people swearing at you and stuff over voice. just generally players treating other players bad in exchange for nothing in return. society is pretty shitty and the fact that the game is designed to be played with friends makes things worse. not everyone can be friends. wow was really close like family there for a while but then everyone drifted away. friendship got replaced by hatred. love replaced by hate.

[Kaver]

And I still believe that it's not disrespectful for a pug to try to run a dungeon or raid that they don't know.

Fair enough. As long as they stay far away from me and my group. Thank god we have Raider.io, Warcraftlogs etc.

[Nite92]

My opinion is you lack self esteem and basic social skills. You not understanding who's ta fault in the described situation, seeking approval from strangers in a forum means you're either :

A. Young.
B. Socially inexperienced
C. Naive
D. All of the above.

What? There are a million different approaches to the game, and different types of players find differnt things toxic.

If you join a +15 DoS run, and do not know, e.g., that you need to stun the manasturms to interrupt their big hitting abilities, you are rude, and ruin 4 peoples time.
It is an entirely different story if this happens in a m0, where that mechanic appears for the first time (i am guessing it is not there on heroic).

So telling the guy in the +15 that he is an idiot and shouldnt waste 4 peoples times because he cba to watch a video or read the dungeon journal, is definetly not considered being toxic by the people in the dungeon. But it is definetly toxic to do so in a m0.

People with different levels of skill find different things offensive/rude/intolerable.

[VinceVega]

Helo,

Ive read many times that wow community is very toxic, but what does toxicity even mean?

For me Toxic players are the ones that are blaming everyone for failing and ruining player experience on purpose. ( leaving groups without purpose, be mean, blaming everyone and just cry)

Yesterday i went 2x Mythic +11, i did buy flask/food, have correct talents and know each boss and trash mechanics and i know my job not to fail the group.
Because there are 4 more people who probably dont have all the time like me in the world and want to have things done. So its my responsibility for them as well to do as much as i can, not to fail.

And for me this is common sense. Now my experience from yesterday is that ppl didnt know tactics at all at the Other side Manastorm fight, me as a Healer deffused all the bombs, soak 2 crystals and they didnt stack on the Aoe from Malificient and im told them after wipe that im doing everything yet they have clearly no idea what to do here. DPS left and the group blamed me that he did because of me, because why am i even writing something?

its like are people really getting offended so easily? I did 150% job at the fight yet they did 50% so should i just be quiet and wipe?

Today same, 2/5 people had no idea what to do at +11, when i ask them why not read jornal before making/joining a group, im blamed that im taking the game really seriously and just "chill bruh". Ok i was quiet we wiped 5 times at one boss due to same mistakes, then i left.

For me, this is not toxicity but taking responsibily for your own actions and be responsible to the group members as well, and im not gonna carry someone else because he cant click dungeon journal and read 2 senteces. From my perspective they are toxic, they are ruining the group experience and blaming others attitude because they cannot admit they simply failed the boss,dungeon whatever and learn from it

What is your opinion?

Thanks

This is difficult to say for various reason:

a) we have to belive you not letting something out of the story
b) IF (and is say if i don't know this) you don't know something what might have wiped the group or forced the others to make these mistakes you don't know that and can't tell us
c) yes there are absolutly toxic players in wow like in every other game and sometime you meet them in PuGs. Mostly PuGs because guilds etc take away part of the annonymity that makes people behave in a toxic way
d) there are not as many toxic players as people think. I meet one maybe every 20 pug runs or so. I ignore them finish the dungeon and leave. (ironically i had a player called toxic bashing me not healing everyone up in necrotic wake where noone moved out of stuff and no one except the tank kicked anything, tank and other dps defended me, he rambled the rest of the dungeon how much of a noob i was, i let him die at the last boss a bit before the boss was killed as a small bit of revenge, dungeon timed everyone left)

Which brings me to my last problem i have wiht every post where people complain about so many toxic players in wow: If you meet incredbile amounts of toxic players.... maaaaaaybe it is you? Like you meet an asshole a day but if you meet only assholes..... fill in the rest. Mind you i am not calling you an asshole I don't know you.

Also not knwoing tactics is not toxic... just... stupid? Especially in an 11. At that point yes, people should know the bosses. Which is exactly why stuff like raider.io got popular.

[Nite92]

And I still believe that it's not disrespectful for a pug to try to run a dungeon or raid that they don't know.

Depends on the content. Do you really think it is not disrespectful to join a +15 without bossstrats? You are literally taking items away from people. It is not like a hc raid boss, where you can just pull again.

[Belloc]

Depends on the content. Do you really think it is not disrespectful to join a +15 without bossstrats? You are literally taking items away from people. It is not like a hc raid boss, where you can just pull again.

I think that anyone that invites a player to a +15 without confirming their ability to perform via raider.io has earned their failed run and has hopefully learned a valuable lesson.