"So Glad We Bought This Warrior to our M+ Group!"

[Biosync]

Iv pugged to +17's (~1400rio now) now with my Hunter and Prot paly. And I truly have pugged like 95% of my keys, so iv seen quite alot of stuff in the recent months.

When i do my keys, I look some certain key elements to fill first, and then just fill the group. Those key elements being BL+CR+ what ever the affixes need. It being fat ST for tyra, fat AOE for Forti, push backs or strong CC.

Depending a bit on the key I honestly don't care about the classes i bring as long as i can minimize the risk of not timing the key.

But in regards of Warriors, Iv yet to see a good one. Even players with high Mythic progress (+5 bosses) or Higher RIO ( +1400) or near max ilvl ( +223) I'v yet to see ONE warrior that competitive in DPS. Im not saying I expect warriors to beat Mages or hunters or Boomkins. But the overall feel at the end of the dungeons is time after time disappointment that "oh warr is that low" or " oh that few stuns/interrupts no wonder". So why should I bring one in future if its constant disappointment?

OF COURSE my take of the whole warrior population is extremely low, but Im supposedly taking above average players too.


peace <3

[Darkeon]

Iv pugged to +17's (~1400rio now) now with my Hunter and Prot paly. And I truly have pugged like 95% of my keys, so iv seen quite alot of stuff in the recent months.

When i do my keys, I look some certain key elements to fill first, and then just fill the group. Those key elements being BL+CR+ what ever the affixes need. It being fat ST for tyra, fat AOE for Forti, push backs or strong CC.

Depending a bit on the key I honestly don't care about the classes i bring as long as i can minimize the risk of not timing the key.

But in regards of Warriors, Iv yet to see a good one. Even players with high Mythic progress (+5 bosses) or Higher RIO ( +1400) or near max ilvl ( +223) I'v yet to see ONE warrior that competitive in DPS. Im not saying I expect warriors to beat Mages or hunters or Boomkins. But the overall feel at the end of the dungeons is time after time disappointment that "oh warr is that low" or " oh that few stuns/interrupts no wonder". So why should I bring one in future if its constant disappointment?

OF COURSE my take of the whole warrior population is extremely low, but Im supposedly taking above average players too.


peace <3

Definitely difficult to rise above "being that low" when a good portion of the playerbase thinks like you do Nor do I blame you - I blame Blizzard for a shitpoor balancing performance.

[RobertMugabe]

Don't PUG M+. That's the underlying message of handing a single player path to every customer. Blizzard doesn't have to and can't make the community accept you into community-curated groups. Their response to that is the very busy and fulfilling-to-reasonable-players covenant campaigns. I'm composing an entire thread about this in the background, but seeing this thread I had to throw this in here.

Take a step back, look at the bigger picture, set your goals accordingly. If you don't have your own 5-man team or guild that does this content among friends, M+ isn't your content. I mean you can try to shoehorn yourself there, of course you can try, but the wall of the community is not something devs can control. That's why the anima-powered covenant game exists.

Considering how dungeons were pugged 90% of the time since vanilla and how m+ still remains content that the vast majority of the players that do it still pug it, then maybe it was a mistake on Bliizard's side to "force" pug content into being content aimed for groups/guilds. Everyone besides a few players lose here.

We are on the 3rd xpac with m+ and the same issues remain. The playerbase didn't move away from pugging m+. Instead what they do is they just do other content or quit the game. Maybe it's time for Blizz to rethink m+ and target pugs again.

[Biosync]

Ye but I still give chances for keys that I know will be timed anyway. Like +14/+15's that are easy and i have the group composition that I need. Then I Do invite a ele/ench shaman or a Warrior or Feral druid or smth equally "off meta" that is completely viable up to 20's. But will i invite one for those +17's that I want to push? No. Since I'v never got impressed by one. If I would, heck I'd add them instantly.

[un_known]

5% attack power buff, AoE fear, AoE snare, single target stun(which to be fair is meh in a multi group pull unless you’re focusing on the one that gives the most problems) and an AoE 28% last stand that helped my group out more times in +15’s in critical situations

::edit::

Also depending on what covenant you are, you have a strong as hell execute, an AoE knockdown, a kyrian version of ursoc’s “If they leave the ring they get dragged back in” and when the patch hits they’ll have a banner that will improve mastery and movement speed of two classes that will benefit greatly from mastery. So don’t count warriors out just yet

[ellieg]

I think a big problem is the 5% ap is not that good for m+ pugs. Most pugs bring 1 melee and 2 ranged. So the warrior is the 1 melee and only the tank benefits from the ap. As a melee, when I make groups, id rather have another ranged instead of 5% ap for myself

[un_known]

I think a big problem is the 5% ap is not that good for m+ pugs. Most pugs bring 1 melee and 2 ranged. So the warrior is the 1 melee and only the tank benefits from the ap. As a melee, when I make groups, id rather have another ranged instead of 5% ap for myself

Depends if said range is a hunter as they benefit from that 5% as well

[Vitinariy]

Then I Do invite a ele/ench shaman or a Warrior or Feral druid or smth equally "off meta" that is completely viable up to 20's. But will i invite one for those +17's that I want to push? No. Since I'v never got impressed by one. If I would, heck I'd add them instantly.

Well, even if you had this choice, you probably wouldn't chose warrior:

- Enh has WF totem, mass stun, BL, anti-fear, ankh
- Feral has CR, stun, roar, roots, clone, some off healing possibly
- Warrior has Battle, Commanding, AOE slow, single target stun and fear

It's still arguably the worst utility even out of all the off-meta classes.

[anon5123]

Welcome to Mistweavers' world, OP. We're in the same group of having no utility compared to the other healers, on top of weak cooldowns, severe mana issues, and ramp-up time on our heals. I can only assume nobody at Blizzard actually plays the game; that's the only way things could have gotten this bad.

[neescher]

I invite dps warriors to my groups regularly, if:
- we already have bl and combat res
- the battle shout is useful to at least 1 other dps
- they have adequate ilvl and rio score for the key level


But you have to understand, that 50+ people apply for 3 dps spots, and sometimes the leader just picks someone with higher ilvl/score, or someone that fits the group composition better. Sure, 205 ilvl is enough to time +15s, but as a party leader, why would you ever take the 205 warrior over the 220 warrior that applies for the same slot, and you don't personally know either player?

[Psychobooty]

I am a warrior who plays both fury and arms to a pretty good level (15s and 16s) and I really feel like most of the comments in this thread are painting warriors in a bad light just as bad if not worse than those who won't take them. Warrior doesn't have the meta utility (tranq/bloodlust/battle res) which I admit would be nice to have - and I do have battle res with engineering - but I have yet to feel "useless" in any dungeon.

You don't know how many times my Rallying cry has come in cluch, my piercing howl, taunts, and defensive cooldowns has helped the tank and group survive, and so on. I feel like most of the complainers here aren't utilizing their full toolkit in a m+ and should really inform themselves through experience or research. Take spell reflect for example, it's been mentioned like twice this whole thread but there are so many boss mechanics you can cheese to take pressure off a healer and it's on a 30 sec cooldown. Seriously, it's a broken ability you should be popping for free any time a big magic damage mechanic is going off.

In conclusion our class is *fine* , I wouldn't say top pick meta but it's also not trash like you guys are making it out to be. You should be able to run everything everyone else can.

[OokOok]

I am a warrior who plays both fury and arms to a pretty good level (15s and 16s) and I really feel like most of the comments in this thread are painting warriors in a bad light just as bad if not worse than those who won't take them. Warrior doesn't have the meta utility (tranq/bloodlust/battle res) which I admit would be nice to have - and I do have battle res with engineering - but I have yet to feel "useless" in any dungeon.

You don't know how many times my Rallying cry has come in cluch, my piercing howl, taunts, and defensive cooldowns has helped the tank and group survive, and so on. I feel like most of the complainers here aren't utilizing their full toolkit in a m+ and should really inform themselves through experience or research. Take spell reflect for example, it's been mentioned like twice this whole thread but there are so many boss mechanics you can cheese to take pressure off a healer and it's on a 30 sec cooldown. Seriously, it's a broken ability you should be popping for free any time a big magic damage mechanic is going off.

In conclusion our class is *fine* , I wouldn't say top pick meta but it's also not trash like you guys are making it out to be. You should be able to run everything everyone else can.

15 and 16's isn't a "good level", people farm 15's for loot and weekly vault. There's nothing special about being able to do it. A warrior doing 15's does not suddenly change everything everyone in this thread has said. Nor does it mean your class is "fine" lol

[kiramon]

Iv pugged to +17's (~1400rio now) now with my Hunter and Prot paly. And I truly have pugged like 95% of my keys, so iv seen quite alot of stuff in the recent months.

When i do my keys, I look some certain key elements to fill first, and then just fill the group. Those key elements being BL+CR+ what ever the affixes need. It being fat ST for tyra, fat AOE for Forti, push backs or strong CC.

Depending a bit on the key I honestly don't care about the classes i bring as long as i can minimize the risk of not timing the key.

But in regards of Warriors, Iv yet to see a good one. Even players with high Mythic progress (+5 bosses) or Higher RIO ( +1400) or near max ilvl ( +223) I'v yet to see ONE warrior that competitive in DPS. Im not saying I expect warriors to beat Mages or hunters or Boomkins. But the overall feel at the end of the dungeons is time after time disappointment that "oh warr is that low" or " oh that few stuns/interrupts no wonder". So why should I bring one in future if its constant disappointment?

OF COURSE my take of the whole warrior population is extremely low, but Im supposedly taking above average players too.


peace <3

I find in the 12-14 range that warriors do ok damage. But the Arms ones go in and spin and die because they dont want to move out of stuff for bigger numbers/get threat.

[dacoolist]

If I could say how many times I've run with a warrior for my M+ groups It would probably be close to the same as mages, rogues, etc: Warriors are one of the meta classes in Shadowlands M+

Oh and most of the time I don't see Warrior tanks, it's as dps

(I'll add though, I do run HOA a LOT, like A LOT LOT, warriors are there probably due to cov choice too - but I want to say I've seen warriors do 8-9k overall dps in there multiple times.. most classes barely do over 6k almost ever)

[Gasparde]

Warriors are one of the meta classes in Shadowlands M+

No they're not. They are very much off meta in every sense of the term. Warriors are not meta, they are off meta.
Now, they might be one of the top off meta classes... but that still doesn't make them meta. There's obviously more than just this arbitrary 2 step ladder where you're either a god or absolutely unusable dogshit, there's nuance, there's shades of gray, there's situational context, you name it.
Warriors might very well be a 10 on the off meta scale whereas Ret Paladins or Feral Druids might be 6s or Enhancers might be 4s or god knows how you'd wanna rank them, I don't care. But even if you're a 10/10 off meta class... you're still not a meta class, you're still an off meta class - you might be the best off meta class, but you're still gonna be below the worst meta class.

Warriors are not meta, no matter how good they are. If they were meta you'd see them in every group, on every stream, in every MDI, sitting at the top of the r.io m+ class distribution charts - because those are the metrics that define the meta. But you don't see them there, because they're not meta, because they're off meta. Again, possibly the best off meta, but who cares, because that still doesn't make them meta.

[erifwodahs]

15 and 16's isn't a "good level", people farm 15's for loot and weekly vault. There's nothing special about being able to do it. A warrior doing 15's does not suddenly change everything everyone in this thread has said. Nor does it mean your class is "fine" lol

But warriors are not trash tier either. They are good, just not top. By good I mean they have a playable spec. which does good enough damage to do high m+. In ideal world every class would be competitive but it's not the case and will never ever be.

[loras]

Said no one ever....

I'm actually baffled at how I never noticed a DPS Warriors utter lack of utility throughout Legion and BFA but it's coming full to a head in Shadowlands.

Legion trash was rudamentary your DPS was what people cared about (And DPS Warriors could Shockwave). BFA got a bit more tricky, keep in mind I only really played the last season, but people just needed to interrupt, and the tank could take care of most of that. A lot of mobs immunie to CC in SL.

Shadowlands really encourages one to use their toolkit at it's limit, and I think it's awesome as you can take stock of your parties abilities and approach the same dungeon differently.....but Warriors just don't do anything. Rallying Cry and Battle Shout both which are hard to notice.

• Shaman, Hunters and Mages are critical for Bloodlust/Heroism. They also bring in Dispell affects. Warrior burst also seems to inferior in comparision to a Mages Combust. (Dont get me started on the overall utility of Hunters and Mages entirely)
• Druids, Warlocks and DKs in combat ress. Death Grip is clutch, Lock cookies are life, Lock Portals can be used to finesse a few things. Druids can also dispell enrage.

When we get to classes that don't bring the essentials (Lust/Ress):

• Rogues can Shroud for skips. Priest can use Soothe for this on some pulls.
• Monks always impress me with Ring of Peace.
• A Ret Paladin that will actually Blessing of Sacrifice the tank or BoP a party member.

Also some of those classes can ress if the healer goes down to prevent loss of time. Warriors could really have their Banners return from MoP or better yet Mass Spell Reflection. Warriors are currently strong in PvP atm so this could be a balancing Nightmare. With the introduction of M+ I do think Blizzard should consider adding a 4th column of talents to all classes perhaps Warriors could spec into a War Banner that allows them to lust if needed but at the cost of the needed Defensive Stance for PvP.

Welcome to the past and the present.
It was always like this before Legion, the issue with the way they've made warriors that we veer too wildly from being overpowered when our limited toolkit is sufficiently effective to be desirable to being avoided like disgusting trash when it's not.

But the insane fun you can have in pvp makes up for a lot of it, imo.

[Beuargh]

lots of those threads lately, more than usual..... please someone tell me if something changed like maybe they hardcapped the number of player alowed to create groups and those players dictate who is in or not?? or anybody can still create his own group but most players like op only looking for a guild based group or a full on carry ?

[Rageadon]

i returned to my warrior this last week and playing pvp is so fun, but when it comes to pve its boring, i think if they simply took the pvp talents and added them to fury/arms spec that would really improve warriors in pve and make them more intresting and rewarding to the team

[kliffharry]

Fury is absolutely blasting in keys and if you are serious about your m+ progress you should be night fae for those very strong soulbind powers plus the ability hits like a truck and gives you a solid knockdown CC.