Scotland will they vote for Indepedence?

[Logwyn]

Will Brexit make the idea of Scottish independence a reality now?

What do you think?

[jonnysensible]

the power to call a referendum is in Westminster in the hands of a Tory majority so no.

unless some major shenanigans take place

[Lynarii]

the power to call a referendum is in Westminster in the hands of a Tory majority so no.

unless some major shenanigans take place

I think refusing to allow a referendum would be one of the worst ideas imaginable, given how much weight the Tories put on the Brexit one...

That being said, I think this would be a bad time for Scotland to try. They are out of the EU at this point, calling a referendum won't instantly get them back in, they're going to have to deal with the new Brexit reality for a bit. People need some time, time to mentally recover from the fatigue of Brexit, and to recover from Covid once that recovery starts. At this point, Scotland is best off just letting things lie and see what the actual impacts of the deal that Britain and the EU worked out are. If it's bad, then the people wanting independence can point to the problems as proof that Britain is hurting them. If it's good, then Scotland leaving might just make everything worse for everybody. Right now, the general feel all around seems to be 'it isn't as good as we wanted, but it's better than we feared'.

[Machismo]

the power to call a referendum is in Westminster in the hands of a Tory majority so no.

unless some major shenanigans take place

That would make the Brexit supporters quite the hypocrites.

[Masark]

That would make the Brexit supporters quite the hypocrites.

Utterly shocking.

[Kallisto]

That would make the Brexit supporters quite the hypocrites.

Wait, you mean they're not? *fake gasp*

[Mihalik]

I think refusing to allow a referendum would be one of the worst ideas imaginable, given how much weight the Tories put on the Brexit one...

I would like to introduce you to Hypocrisy.

That being said, I think this would be a bad time for Scotland to try. They are out of the EU at this point, calling a referendum won't instantly get them back in, they're going to have to deal with the new Brexit reality for a bit. People need some time, time to mentally recover from the fatigue of Brexit, and to recover from Covid once that recovery starts. At this point, Scotland is best off just letting things lie and see what the actual impacts of the deal that Britain and the EU worked out are. If it's bad, then the people wanting independence can point to the problems as proof that Britain is hurting them. If it's good, then Scotland leaving might just make everything worse for everybody. Right now, the general feel all around seems to be 'it isn't as good as we wanted, but it's better than we feared'.

It's a bit more complicated than that really. I don't think there will be a referendum in the immediate future, but I think one is almost inevitable before the next general elections.

Scotland is in a really nasty pickle. Politically they never wanted to leave the EU. They also feel cheated as the main argument for staying the UK in the first place was that it was the only way for Scotland to remain in the EU. Economically they actually trade more with the EU than they trade with the rest of the UK as weird as that is. They also got shafted in the Brexit negotiations as the Tories basically ignored everything Scotland wanted.

Then there's the issue with the various double standards that apply to other majority remain voting areas like Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, which both got a slew of technical exceptions which allow them to retain much closer ties to the EU and freedom of travel.

So the next thing that will happen will be a whole lot of rumbling about Scotland possibly being allowed to either negotiate Northern Ireland style agreements with the EU or being allowed to join the Schengen area (possibly putting an internal border on the island of Great Britain, maybe we could call it the Brexit Wall, or Boris' Wall).

[CostinR]

That would make the Brexit supporters quite the hypocrites.

They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Realistically though the reason no government in London is ever really going to accept holding any referendum anytime soon is that it's widely held that David Cameron inflicted one of the greatest political disasters in modern British political history by holding the referendums that he did. He won on the Scottish one sure but he lost massively in the Brexit one: His job, his legacy, his standing in the eyes of the British people.

No one wants to be the guy that destroys the United Kingdom.

[Graeham]

I'd much prefer to see Scotland forge closer ties with the rest of the UK.

[JohnBrown1917]

They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Realistically though the reason no government in London is ever really going to accept holding any referendum anytime soon is that it's widely held that David Cameron inflicted one of the greatest political disasters in modern British political history by holding the referendums that he did. He won on the Scottish one sure but he lost massively in the Brexit one: His job, his legacy, his standing in the eyes of the British people.

No one wants to be the guy that destroys the United Kingdom.

That one was held when the Scots though they would stay in the EU.

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I'd much prefer to see Scotland forge closer ties with the rest of the UK.

The tories should have thought of that before ignoring everything Scotland wants.

[tehealadin]

I think any refusal to allow a referendum would blow up in the UK governments face. I was speaking to a colleague about this, we were both of the opinion that such a move would likely be a catalyst to get people onto the streets. His argument was that he wants the right to say no. I suspect there would be enough people who would be enraged by any blockage. Whether or not the independence side would win is another argument. I am not sure how any vote would go. I am also wary about voting angrily, making any rash decisions. I voted to remain (in both referendums), but on a second I would be unsure how to vote.

[Machismo]

They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Realistically though the reason no government in London is ever really going to accept holding any referendum anytime soon is that it's widely held that David Cameron inflicted one of the greatest political disasters in modern British political history by holding the referendums that he did. He won on the Scottish one sure but he lost massively in the Brexit one: His job, his legacy, his standing in the eyes of the British people.

No one wants to be the guy that destroys the United Kingdom.

They can have another referendum, good for them.

The Scottish were promised things, and the UK did not deliver.

I look forward to their hypocrisy.

[Graeham]

The tories should have thought of that before ignoring everything Scotland wants.

The Tories aren't going to be in power forever.

[Attackrabbit]

Best of luck to the Scots.
Isn't one of the main issues the fact that even if Scotland gains independance they won't be able to join the EU as seperate country due to Spains issue with the Catalan region. Might have just been bullshit to keep the Scots in line when they had their vote last time.
My country is also now starting to have a 'serious' independant movement but let's face it Scotland is at least 50x more prepared for independance than Wales

[JohnBrown1917]

The Tories aren't going to be in power forever.

Does not change what brexit did.

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Best of luck to the Scots.
Isn't one of the main issues the fact that even if Scotland gains independance they won't be able to join the EU as seperate country due to Spains issue with the Catalan region. Might have just been bullshit to keep the Scots in line when they had their vote last time.
My country is also now starting to have a 'serious' independant movement but let's face it Scotland is at least 50x more prepared for independance than Wales

If Scotland leaves on good terms, Spain wont bea issue.

[Graeham]

Does not change what brexit did.

Well, Brexit is a complicated issue in itself. Personally I would have been in favour of pushing for reform from within, though neither side seemed to want to be honest about the perks, drawbacks and most importantly the impact of both on the 'everyman'.

Even now, on both sides the issue seems to be exploited for political point scoring from those who are already far removed from regular folk.

[cubby]

Will Brexit make the idea of Scottish independence a reality now?

What do you think?

I sure hope so - they don't deserve to go down with the Brexit Ship.

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They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Realistically though the reason no government in London is ever really going to accept holding any referendum anytime soon is that it's widely held that David Cameron inflicted one of the greatest political disasters in modern British political history by holding the referendums that he did. He won on the Scottish one sure but he lost massively in the Brexit one: His job, his legacy, his standing in the eyes of the British people.

No one wants to be the guy that destroys the United Kingdom.

Back when? Why does that matter? Can you think of any recent event that finally came to it's disasterous conclusion that might have a change of people's points of view?

[Orange Joe]

They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Realistically though the reason no government in London is ever really going to accept holding any referendum anytime soon is that it's widely held that David Cameron inflicted one of the greatest political disasters in modern British political history by holding the referendums that he did. He won on the Scottish one sure but he lost massively in the Brexit one: His job, his legacy, his standing in the eyes of the British people.

No one wants to be the guy that destroys the United Kingdom.

Wasn't before they decided to go with brexit?

[Mihalik]

Best of luck to the Scots.
Isn't one of the main issues the fact that even if Scotland gains independance they won't be able to join the EU as seperate country due to Spains issue with the Catalan region. Might have just been bullshit to keep the Scots in line when they had their vote last time.
My country is also now starting to have a 'serious' independant movement but let's face it Scotland is at least 50x more prepared for independance than Wales

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sp...-idUKKCN1NP25P

Spain withdrew its objections to an independent Scotland rejoining the EU years ago.

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They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Again, that has not settled the issue, on the contrary. Especially as the main argument for remaining in the UK has completely evaporated from the perspective of many who leaned to leave, but ultimately voted remain because of the risk of being booted from the EU.

Realistically though the reason no government in London is ever really going to accept holding any referendum anytime soon is that it's widely held that David Cameron inflicted one of the greatest political disasters in modern British political history by holding the referendums that he did. He won on the Scottish one sure but he lost massively in the Brexit one: His job, his legacy, his standing in the eyes of the British people.

That won't be up to Westminster. There's a tipping point where internal divisions will become unmanageable without withdrawing home rule, and that's a political tinder box.

No one wants to be the guy that destroys the United Kingdom.

That ship has sailed years ago. Brexit has made Irish re-unification virtually guaranteed in a few years as the divergence between the GB and Northern Ireland will increase. The popular support is already leaning re-unification, and leaning very heavily towards re-unification in the younger generations. Demographics and Brexit have made it inevitable.

Forcing Scotland to remain while accepting the inevitable for Northern Ireland is another political tinder box.

The whole UK ship has already sailed while taking on water with no working pumps. Actually the only hope for saving a united Great Britain at least is having another Scottish referendum and actually getting a stay vote. On the medium term, the best bet for keeping the UK viable is actually allowing Scotland to seek closer ties with the EU akin to NI and Gibraltar while technically remaining in the UK.

For context, I actually wanted Scotland to stay in the UK, just as I thought the UK should remain in the EU. I believed the UK should have held a 2nd referendum on Brexit before the last general elections, but then simply accepted that the UK is a goner. I think the Brexit deal as is was a mistake, and the UK should have sought a Norway style relationship with the EU which would have actually avoided most of these internal issues.

The Brexit deal is designed to appease English nationalists. Which make up probably less than a third of the UK's population. This created more issues than it solved. Now the people still in the UK need to get a chance to express their opinions on their future and the only way for the UK to remain a thing is by addressing the concerns of the two thirds who aren't English nationalists.

There are things that can be done to salvage the situation, but that can only happen by actually listening to Scots, the Irish and the Welsh too and addressing their needs and priorities.

The UK's future relationship with the EU is not set in stone, it's an evolving thing.

[Kallisto]

They had a referendum. The Scottish said no to the idea back then.

Under the promise that if they said no EU membership was guaranteed for essentially their lifetimes.