Venthyr paladin getting nerfed in the future?

[cronumic]

Anyone else think they will end up nerfing venthyr paladin for next tier?

Reasoning: it allows tank/healer to perform far more dps than any other covenant choice for any tank/heal spec, which I expect guilds will use to nullify and dps checks

Maybe I'm overthinking it but what do yall think

[baseballfan]

lmao.
/10chars

[melzas]

No, because bastion is better anyway. Lul.

[cronumic]

No, because bastion is better anyway. Lul.

Not from pure dps/hps standpoint for prot in raid, only utility wise is kyrian better and with how easy it is to gear up with pvp (and it only gets easier as time goes on since u can catchup on conquest but u cant catch up on raid gear) i dont think being tanky enough is an issue (obviously I'm not a top mythic raider)

I just see venthyr prot (and by extension holy) as such an outlier in dps that its not a niche, its probably overtuned and was wondering what others opinions are.

Also going into heroic raids and being in the middle of the dps charts as a tank is satiafying af

[Osperand]

Not from pure dps/hps standpoint for prot in raid, only utility wise is kyrian better and with how easy it is to gear up with pvp (and it only gets easier as time goes on since u can catchup on conquest but u cant catch up on raid gear) i dont think being tanky enough is an issue (obviously I'm not a top mythic raider)

I just see venthyr prot (and by extension holy) as such an outlier in dps that its not a niche, its probably overtuned and was wondering what others opinions are.

Also going into heroic raids and being in the middle of the dps charts as a tank is satiafying af

If your dps are getting beat by the tank then they are bad dps. The burst damage is on a tiny window and its a 4 minute CD for tanks, its great to throw some flashy numbers for a few seconds but any decent dps (who also have their own cd's) will be far above any tank if they know how to play and gear is about the same.

[capri sunset]

No, you're right. I'm not sure what the other people in here have been seeing but holy is doing so much damage with hallow while the organisation needed to use it in raids is frankly being exaggerated. Like, I know a lot of people aren't giving it the time of day just because divine toll ~feels~ so strong and flexible but if you're not super into m+ and your guild isn't yoloing raid cooldowns I would really recommend trying it, because it would be a mistake if blizzard doesn't nerf it by next tier.

For prot you'd probably bring the other covenants up instead because I think you really need that damage over the other tanks to be competitive.

[Erous]

I switched to Venthyr from Kyrian, not because I feel Ashen Hallow is OP but rather because I can use it as another CD in our healing rotation. Ashen Hallow has a whopping 4 minute CD where Divine Toll is 1 min. All of our healing conduits empower Divine Toll's use including the shock barrier leggo. There are zero available buffs to ashen hallow aside from the 1 conduit. There's nothing in the shadowlands arsenal that I'm aware of that can synergize with it.

[meroko]

Venthyr is trash for holy Paladin. I laugh when people think a semi decent CD that lasts 4 MINUTES versus a 1 min CD synergizes PERFECTLY with our toolkit is somehow better. For Prot paladin though, I think it's pretty decent and honestly would recommend it, if you offspec ret. But if you off spec healer, don't bother. You're gimping yourself.

[Erous]

Venthyr is trash for holy Paladin. I laugh when people think a semi decent CD that lasts 4 MINUTES versus a 1 min CD synergizes PERFECTLY with our toolkit is somehow better. For Prot paladin though, I think it's pretty decent and honestly would recommend it, if you offspec ret. But if you off spec healer, don't bother. You're gimping yourself.

You're right...from a sheer numbers perspective. A Venthyr holy pally is NOT by any means racing for top parses. However, as a raid wide CD, divine toll is pretty crappy and ashen hallow is a huge fill in. Holy Paladin is not the best raid healer this xpac at the moment so for some guilds having an additional CD from their mediocre performers is a solid reason to go Venthyr.

[capri sunset]

Venthyr is trash for holy Paladin. I laugh when people think a semi decent CD that lasts 4 MINUTES versus a 1 min CD synergizes PERFECTLY with our toolkit is somehow better. For Prot paladin though, I think it's pretty decent and honestly would recommend it, if you offspec ret. But if you off spec healer, don't bother. You're gimping yourself.

You cannot be serious, I can tell you haven't played with it because you're framing it like this. I will readily sing divine toll's praises - it's great for spot healing both on the players hit and the tank from your beacon, the holy power synergises nicely with divine purpose and awakening, its low cooldown makes it very useful especially when you have a group that isn't very well organised, and it's also a lot of fun. One thing I do keep seeing is people talking about synergy with glimmer and shock barrier, which it really doesn't have that much of because of how those work.

On the other hand, what does hallow do? It's not a "semi-decent cooldown", it's a strong cooldown that lasts for 30 seconds covering an intense part of the fight which is easily assigned, it gives your tank immense safety for the entire thing because of the transfer, and it almost doubles your damage. Then you think about kill times, a 5:30 sludgefist is not 4 tolls = 1 hallow, it's 6 tolls with 3 in wings = 2 hallows with both in wings. It's really just about who you're playing with, but when it makes sense it's extremely broken.

[agentsi]

Venthyr is trash for holy Paladin. I laugh when people think a semi decent CD that lasts 4 MINUTES versus a 1 min CD synergizes PERFECTLY with our toolkit is somehow better. For Prot paladin though, I think it's pretty decent and honestly would recommend it, if you offspec ret. But if you off spec healer, don't bother. You're gimping yourself.

Tell that to all of Limit's Holy PLDs in their world first kill. All of them were Venthyr. But you know better than those guys right? I mean, you're better than those guys right? You got the world first, not them? RighT? Right?

gtfo

[Raugnaut]

Considering that Ashen Hallow is on a 4 minute CD, the LARGEST CD of ANY Covenant ability, it's effect SHOULD be powerful and strong.

Of course, I highly doubt it's going to be nerfed - If anything, Bastion is going to get the nerf.

1: Bastion is FAR more powerful in M+ content for all 3 specs.
2: Bastion is quite a bit stronger in PvP due to it's burst - Ashen Hallow does have high damage, but it's both limited to an area (Albeit a wide area) and it's sustain rather then burst damage.
3: Bastion currently provides the better utility compared to Venthyr in all content, especially for tanks.

Personally, in terms of PvE, I would prefer to see Maldraxxus/Night Fae be buffed compared to Venthyr overall

[Demsi]

Considering that Ashen Hallow is on a 4 minute CD, the LARGEST CD of ANY Covenant ability, it's effect SHOULD be powerful and strong.

Of course, I highly doubt it's going to be nerfed - If anything, Bastion is going to get the nerf.

1: Bastion is FAR more powerful in M+ content for all 3 specs.
2: Bastion is quite a bit stronger in PvP due to it's burst - Ashen Hallow does have high damage, but it's both limited to an area (Albeit a wide area) and it's sustain rather then burst damage.
3: Bastion currently provides the better utility compared to Venthyr in all content, especially for tanks.

Personally, in terms of PvE, I would prefer to see Maldraxxus/Night Fae be buffed compared to Venthyr overall

I think Maldraxxus and night fae abilities should get a straight up rework, even if they get buffed i wonder if anyone is going to pick them (assuming they dont become the best picks by a large margin) they're not fun to play with.

[Vluggedaafie]

Tell that to all of Limit's Holy PLDs in their world first kill. All of them were Venthyr. But you know better than those guys right? I mean, you're better than those guys right? You got the world first, not them? RighT? Right?

gtfo

bad reasoning, they kill a raid with way lower itemlevel then any other guild in which for them a 4 min cooldown has more value vs a raid with 5-10 more ilvl

[capri sunset]

Far more DPS? Do you guys even check logs before posting? Top logs for every ST boss is heavily Kyrian dominated, MT is Kyrian 100% dominated.
The Kyrian Potency Conduit is also that strong and grwoing in strength with gear heavily. I Sim much higher with Kyrian with my 214 gear on my ret.
Everytime is see someone play Ashen Hallow I think he is just reading guides that lack a lot of depth. And both, Icy Veins and WoWHead guides right now, are not that good for some classes and specs. Not up to date and missing decent sims.

The Numbers are close and Kyrian overall performs way better.

Um, no one is talking about ret.

[roboscorcher]

I switched to Venthyr from Kyrian, not because I feel Ashen Hallow is OP but rather because I can use it as another CD in our healing rotation. Ashen Hallow has a whopping 4 minute CD where Divine Toll is 1 min. All of our healing conduits empower Divine Toll's use including the shock barrier leggo. There are zero available buffs to ashen hallow aside from the 1 conduit. There's nothing in the shadowlands arsenal that I'm aware of that can synergize with it.

To be fair, the conduit (bonus healing and bonus dmg to lowest hp targets) is one of the only smart heals left in the game, if not the only one.

I like Ashen Hollow. I'm not a minmaxer, so I usually only use it on hard fights, or final bosses. For Holy, AH really shines in raids, whereas DT shines in M+. For Ret, I think AH is superior as well, especially if you have Mad Paragon equipped. Someone said the damage bonuses from Mad Paragon stacks multiplicitavely with AH, which could mean 260% Hammer of Wrath damage. Even without Mad Paragon, AH makes the Torghast talent (3 extra HoWs) really strong.

Does AH need a nerf? Possibly in certain scenarios. If they do, they should only nerf the values that are 'off-spec'. For example, holy AH would do less dps, while ret AH would do less healing. And if they nerf big, they should reduce the CD to compensate.

More importantly, Blizzz should buff or redesign the NF and Necrolords abilities. Is anyone even using these things?

[PingPong]

Kyrian is the first to go down if anything next tier lol

[Rinaul]

Tell that to all of Limit's Holy PLDs in their world first kill. All of them were Venthyr. But you know better than those guys right? I mean, you're better than those guys right? You got the world first, not them? RighT? Right?

gtfo

Found the guy running meta builds in +3 keys. Just because a CE WF guild does it means it's a 1 size fits all. These are all very niche situations.

[kenn9530]

Tell that to all of Limit's Holy PLDs in their world first kill. All of them were Venthyr. But you know better than those guys right? I mean, you're better than those guys right? You got the world first, not them? RighT? Right?

gtfo

Just because a certain guild is making use of venthyr for holy paladins still doesnt make it the best option does it, doesnt matter if the guild has some of the most skilled players in the game, world first kills often make use of squeezing out as much dmg as they can even if that sacrifices healing output.

[Runewrath]

Tell that to all of Limit's Holy PLDs in their world first kill. All of them were Venthyr. But you know better than those guys right? I mean, you're better than those guys right? You got the world first, not them? RighT? Right?

gtfo

Yeah emphasis on the LIMIT part of that. Even max said on his own stream they do things he would not recommend for anyone not in a world top 20 guild. Including having your holy paladins as venthyr. So how about you get some education before spouting off about how Limit did something with zero knowledge of WHY they did it.